What do you think about this?

[Trewsers]

What does everybody think about the following?
At our yard there isn't any winter turn out at all apart from 20 minutes in a sandschool paddock. This isn't ideal as its on a rota basis, so if you miss your slot ie, if you're in a rush in the morning then you just don't get in at all - unless you want to put your horse out in the dark!! I am new to horse owning and didn't realise how important turn out is. We bought our horses towards the end of winter and didn't know about turning out as such. I guess its different slightly for school horses as they get worked 2 or 3 times per day, but what about ours on the days we don't ride them??? Surely its not good cooped up in a box? Also am a bit concerned as our vet said OH's horse needed as much fresh air as poss - he has a mystery cough / allergy. Don't know what to do - am delighted with the yard in every other way. However, one woman mysteriously turns hers out - she seems to have her own special field. Most confusing.... Just to add, I wouldn't have picked this yard if I'd known about the turn out situation. What do you guys think??? (I may have mentioned this before in a previous thread)

[eventerbabe]

i don't think its good for horses to be couped up 24/7 over the winter. mine do spend the odd day in if the weather is really foul but other than that go out for at least 6 hours a day. it will be particularly important for your OH's horse if he's a cough. i know that from having a mare with COPD. she gets very wheezy if kept in 24/7, was a nightmare when she was on box rest. being stuck inside can also make them a bit depressed with lack of horsey contact. is there any way you could negociate your own field like this other woman? or move to a new yard?

[Showjumper]

I'd be out of there. Turnout is about the most important thing to me in a yard. I like the security of having a stable even though I don't think I've used it more than 5 times since February...

[Trewsers]

I'm going to have to have a serious think about this - its weird, but other liveries just don't seem bothered about the situation - they just seem to accept it! I'm going to talk to YO - she's a nice person who has helped OH and me an awful lot - I just hope she understands that we find this situation unacceptable. :( I don't really want to move yards, cos of the unpheaval for the horses - OH's gelding in particular would get upset, he's only just really settled in after 6 months. But, if it has to be, then it has to be. I just find it hard to believe that other liveries find it acceptable to keep their horses in from October right through till May (yes - unbelieveably it was end of May when we got turn out!!!).

[Jessey]

Personally I wouldn't accept no turn out but I know lots of people who do but for them it means riding 6 days a week and arranging turnout in a school or tiny paddock on the other day, they seem to manage OK but I know my horses are happier for some turn out.
I would definatly try to negotiate a paddock you could use (even just for a couple of hours a day) and use your vets advise about OH's horse a leverage to get what you want.

J x

[Bay Mare]

A lot of people still think that horses live in stables just the same way as they think that all horses eats oats and carrots!

I wouldn't have Saff anywhere without turnout (we have 24/7 access), quite apart from anything else she would go mental if she was cooped up in a stable.

It's widely accepted now that turnout makes for healthier, happier and fitter horses. It's also well known that stereotypies are almost exclusively a problem with stabled horses (there are the odd few who display stereotypical behaviour even when they're turnout out but they're most definitely in the minority). Even when madam wrecked her shoulder and couldn't be ridden for a month she was still turned out because she was doing more damage to herself stomping around the stable. When she came back into work she hadn't lost much condition at all.

In addition to turnout horses also need to socialise with other horses, preferably as part of a herd. Being in the field with the herd is their 'down' time, it is where they form pair bonds and where they learn how to behave! A naughty youngster will be reprimanded and will soon learn how to behave appropriately within the herd which can only make life a LOT easier for us in the long run :)

[Tim]

Change yards. The horse needs as much turn out as they can get.

[Holly B]

I agree, move yards. I'm sorry if I offend anyone by saying this, but in my opinion keeping a horse in a stable 24/7 apart from a few minutes in a school and a ride is cruelty. To be shut in a small wooden cage with nothing to do and no contact with other horses is awful and breaks my heart. Find somewhere where your horse can get at least a few hours a day in the field, preferably as much time as possible, and believe me they'll thank you for it! I know you said you didn't really want to move yards because of the stress for the horses, but I think in the long run it would save many years of stressed horses standing in a stable with no turnout. :)

[Wobblydeb]

I have to agree that moving yards or arranging your own grazing nearby is a must. Sorry if I offend anyone, but I think stabling must be like being in jail in permanent lockdown :(

If you don't want to move, try every option where you are. How does the lady you mentioned get turnout? Be really nice to her, and find out how she arranged it :) Are there any farm fields near to the yard - perhaps you can rent one direct yourself? Renting a field is generally not too expensive.

Good luck :)

[katieB]

Id move yards too, I couldnt imagine only being able to turn out for 20 minutes a day, thats no time at all and like you say what happens if you miss your slot. Thats bad that they never told you about the turnout situation when you went to look round!

[Dales_Lover]

I'd move yards as well - turnout to me (and my horse) is the most important thing. A stable is very useful, if there is no covered area to tack up/groom or for keeping in on box rest. Horses weren't made to stand in a stable all day (though some horses prefer to do that - mine does in the summer!) and good turnout is a must.

[Trewsers]

Thanks guys for the replies - you've really all confirmed what I already knew in my mind. :( If there is no way we can get turn out we'll have to move - OH and I agree that it just isn't fair keeping them in their boxes all day. I can't understand the other liveries - although I suspect some of them don't have a choice as they "have a deal" going with the YO (some of them are hard luck stories that struggle financially). Even though it would be upsetting to leave, I can't face keeping them in all winter. Just not right. Funny thing is my teacher doesn't seem to think its a bad thing - although hers get turned out!!! It seems to be one rule for her and one for others. As somebody suggested I will try and negotiate a field or paddock - I've asked the other lady who turns out all year round and she said she just demanded it. :p Can't see that working for me somehow..... :) I'll let you know how things progess!!!

[crazystevie]

At my yard for about 2-3 months (weather permitting), when the weather is really bad, the horses stay in, but in return we got 24/7 turn out for the rest of the year. However, you do get 2-3 hours in a winter paddock each day with all the other horses, so its not too bad (and we have giant foaling boxes lol!). Its worth it for the brilliant turnout the rest of the year. My horses don't get too upset, because they have lots of toys, get ridden or lunged everyday, and get plenty of hacking, so it keeos things interesting, also, they have half walls between the stables, and the grills can come out if the horses get on, so they can groom each other and stuff. My horses both stay sane, and happy in this routine. Maybe if it went on for 4-5moths though, they'd probably get depressed - 2months isn't too bad.

Basically what i'm saying is, if this is only a short term thing, it's not too bad. Make sure your horse has plenty to do, and gets out as much as it can - try and make that slot for turn out, or see if you can find some one nice enough who may be able to give your horse a hand. As long as your horse gets some time to socialise, and gets lenty of your attention and variety, it should survive for a few months. It may even be worth getting a sharer over the winter, just so your horse gets as much attention as it needs. Even though i'm sure most of you disagree, stabling is ok if it is well managed. I suppose it doesn't bother me too much, because its only very short term, and its worth it because we have fantastic turnout for the other 10months, were on a brilliant yard, my horse does get a couple of hours turnout each day in a 4 acre paddock, and I suppose it is a bit easier than your situation, where you only get 20minutes.

[ANN H]

I hope you do decide to move. Its not natural keeping horses cooped up. I used to be on a livery yard where they had two days turnout a week, and that's if they remembered to turn them out. Also, my horse was in an enclosed stable block which was very dark and dreary - it really was depressing. They need as much turnout as possible.

[Big Ears]

my cob Molly would not adapt to being in, neither would Rosie, though she did box rest for six weeks.

many yards, to make a living, have to have too many horses on a limited acreage, and the horses have to be kept without turnout for economics and convenience. i knew a yard where they had 30 horses and about 4 acres! so if they were out in it all winter, it would just have been total mud - you needed about 40 acres for that number.

closer to towns/london/etc worse it is as land is at a premium. some of the regimes that horses are kept in are verging on cruelty but some owners don't seem to see that the horse has needs.

i am sure a lot of vices/problems are caused by horses not being allowed out enough to be free and socialise.

[Trewsers]

Crazystevie - it wouldn't be so bad if it was only for a couple of months - but last year they didn't turn out from end october until end May! :eek: (we joined the yard end Feb) It dragged on rather.... Anyways am going to see about getting some turn out - even if its just for 3 / 4 hours per day :) By the way, I like the sound of your boxes where you can take out the grill and they can groom each other (if they're friendly enough :D ) sounds brill!!! Although my bad tempered mare would be more likely to just nip her neighbours... :D :D When we joined the yard we didn't realise how important turn out was - and, it wasn't made totally clear that there wasn't any :( I guess its one of those things in future I will check out first!!!!

[crazystevie]

The removable grills are great, except if your grooming your horse, or something, and the other one decides to squeal at it - it really hurts when they stamp on your foot in protest at them lol!

That is a long time I guess. It might be worth talking to the YO about this situation together with a few other 'unhappy' customers, to see if she is prepared to do anything to help. If she has lots of land she could consider setting aside 1 or 2 acres just for the winter, so that they can get muddy and battered - its better for a horse to go out in a field even if it is horrible, just for an hour or 2 than be stabled all that time. Thats what they do at our yard, and that hour or so keeps the horses sane. Or even if she could shorten the time down, so there out by march-april and maybe come in just at night, because the weather isn't too horrible then, and the grass should stay ok in that situation. I was once at a yard where mares went out one day, and the geldings went out the next in the same paddock, so that way every horse got 3-4 full days turnout a week, and the fields didn't get too battered, as there was only a few horses in at a time.

...or like everyone else says, speak very kindly to the lady who has the field, and see if her horse wants a new friend....

[Sunshine*]

I'm a firm believer that horses don't need to be stabled at all. They should have a building which they can get into if the weather is bad enough... but other then that they should be outside....

It's unnatural enough for humans to own horses, why would we take away the outdoors on them too?

The way I think of it is that horses survived for CENTURIES without the help of humans.. they must have been doing somthing right....

[Bertie]

In an ideal world you would have expansive amounts of turnout all year round available to you 24/7 but unfortunately that isn't always the case.

Anyway, I think that you should have a word with your YO like your fellow your livery and try and neogiate a field, saying it's not great for your horses and if it's not possible you may have to consider moving your horses to a yard with winter turnout.

Good luck :)

[martini55]

I did one winter at a yard where the horses were kept in 24/7 for about 4 months over the winter. The yard was one of the best I have been at and was perfect in everyway apart from this. I used to put lots of stable toys in and she always had hay. Every night after school I'd ride for at least one hour, and we would always end up playing games and such as well. After riding, we would just take the tack off the horses and leave them in the school for as long as possible. At the weekend I would be there practically all day and would hack out for up to 2 hrs each day and then if the weather was good I'd just sit outside at a grassy area and let martini graze away for ages. It wasn't ideal but Martini coped fine.

Having said that I now would not go to a yard without any turnout. I much prefer them being out.