Barefoot rant!

[Drummers mum]

I couldn't bl**dy believe it, arranged for the farrier to come yesterday evening so that I could be there but what happens? :mad: He arrives early so the YO gets Drummer in and lets the farrier trim him without talking to me! :mad: (there were horses that need to be shod that could have been done first!!)

I was so mad, you won't believe, he's parred off half his sole and there is no frog left at all :eek: and the final staw is that he has left flare on! :eek: :mad: I could have cried! :(

I really had my farrier on side and although he is not barefoot trim trained, he was taking on board everything I said and asked him to do, now Drummer will be footsy and all my hard work is in tatters! :mad:

Rant over, thanks for letting me vent! :o

[Skib]

Drummers Mum
I am so sorry. You are right to be angry. And to raise this whole question.
I have looked round a few livery yards prior to getting my own horse. An American horse trainer talking to me said the whole point of owning a horse was that you got to take the decisions. Just as you took decisions about bringing up your own children.
I imagined that would include whether the horse should be lunged before riding and what it should be fed. These are related questions since one American view is that in the UK we tend to overfeed our horses and on the wrong thing.
But a local yard told me that those things were decided by the yard managers. They were the professionals. I came away feeling very confused about owning a horse.
And your story seems to underline the confusion.
What happens to most people at their livery yards?

[Drummers mum]

Its your horse so you should make the decisions, proffessional or not! Thats my opinion!

On our yard its quite relaxed and the YO used to just organise the farrier for us but she knows how I am about Drummers feet and the past 3 times I have organised it to be there, thats partly why I was so mad!

I think I am going to look for a new farrier anyway as I am not 100% about mine, that would solve my interfering problem!

[Yann]

That is very annoying, especially if you had arranged to be there. I hope he isn't too sore for long as a result. Professionals shouldn't ignore the wishes of the owner.

Skib, I think it's generally full livery yards where things tend to get decided centrally by the management, and the owners often being the type who just turn up to ride and not much else are happy with that. It tends to be a different matter on DIY or part livery though.

[Showjumper]

Bugger! That's so annoying - and his feet were looking really well! Grrrrrrrr Bad Farrier! I hope Drum's isn't too sore and that his feet come back to shape soon!

[Gill]

That is so annoying for you but I think you must have the wrong farrier because I would trust mine to trim exactly right even if I wasn't here, I am so lucky that he is pro barefoot and becoming more knowledgeable all the time.

By the by, I have seen you post on EE, Drummers Mum, and I think you are soon going to meet my daughter at your get together? She is also a fully converted barefooter who started with the same farrier as me, when she used to live at home. Small world eh?

[Drummers mum]

He he, it is, who is your daughter? :D

Oh and thanks for the sympathy vote!

Gill, my farrier wasn't anti but I was converting him to my way of thinking gradually so we hadn't really worked it all out yet! :(

[Bay Mare]

I'm on full livery and I make the decisions (I also don't just turn up and ride, I'm full livery through need rather than want). The YO is very supportive and will help me if I ask for help but we are lucky in that they are very relaxed about things and are open to new things.

Drummer's Mum - have you thought about looking for a barefoot trimmer rather than going with a farrier? If you're barefoot anyway it's not like you're starting from scratch and EPs don't tend to have the same behavioural problems that a lot of farriers do nor do you have to contend with the 'Farrier Mafia' ;)

There is no way that he should have gone against your wishes whether you were there or not, he knows the way you're heading so shouldn't have made any drastic changes without discussing it with you first.

I hope that he's ok and not too sore :(

[mayS]

> "I was so mad, you won't believe, he's parred off half his sole and there is no frog left at all and the final staw is that he has left flare on! "

Whether this guy is a "barefoot" expert or not, sounds like he did a terrible job! Can you talk to YO about not letting him touch your horses every again? What an incompetent goof. :mad:

To see what another farrier objectively thinks of the job and to get ideas on how to best repair it, you might want to go here : http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/ and post some pics of the feet. Or even post them on this forum... I'm sure some of the people here have trimming experience and can give you ideas.

The good news is that he's not sore or unsound from the bad trim... and hooves do grow out... so in time the damage will repair itself. Just keep the crazy guy away from your horse from now on. :p

[Drummers mum]

Drummer's Mum - have you thought about looking for a barefoot trimmer rather than going with a farrier? If you're barefoot anyway it's not like you're starting from scratch and EPs don't tend to have the same behavioural problems that a lot of farriers do nor do you have to contend with the 'Farrier Mafia' ;)
Lol! :D I have posted on EE to find out who people in this area have to trim their horses, I was hoing to find someone so we could share travel costs as this seems to be the expensive bit of an EP! :rolleyes:

mayS thanks for the link, I will head on over and have a look see!

I am quite pleased that hes not as sore as I though he would be, just a bit ouchy on stones, poor Drummer he must wonder why its suddenly painful to walk! :(

[cazrider]

No wonder you were mad Drummer's mum. After all you'd said as well. :mad: I hope he's OK.

Skib, no, I have Sennie on DIY with services, and whilst you can always find someone free with the advice (always the same on livery yards i find :rolleyes: ) the YM on our yard wouldn't do anything without checking with me first. The exception to this is getting the vet out. I have told her that if she's at all concerned about Sennie to get him first and call me after. I know there are things she doesn't agree with me about, treeless saddles being one, but she'd never tell me not to do it. There are lots of people on our yard trying out new and different things.

[Chablis]

Oh, you must be mad! I would be very angry if someone did that to one of my horses! Having said that I'm learning to trim the hooves myself after someone did a terrible job and both previously sound horses ended up lame! :mad:

I was speaking with my instructor who was telling us about this person she met who knows next to nothing about horses (keen learner thougth) and can't tell what sex a horse is... I kid you not and I'll tell you the end result.

Two horses, both chestnut, this student was leasing a chestnut mare and was going to get her shod. Farrier arrives, shoes horse and leaves...

Another instructor wanders into paddock to get his horse, also a chestnut but a gelding only to find that someone has shod his *barefoot* horse! Yep, all 4 hooves now shod, years of work undone... :(

Can you imagine this persons horror after seeing all their hard work undone?

[cazrider]

Words fail you sometimes Chablis....

[Drummers mum]

Sorry, I shouldn't laugh but... :D All I can say is what a dope! :rolleyes: But I do feel so sorry for the other person, they must have been spitting chips!!

[Chablis]

Yep, it is rather funny when it doesn't happen to us :D

Apparrently the learner looked at the horses chests and determined which one was the mare... ROFLMAO!

I did volunteer to have lessons instead of the clueless student but unfortunately it didn't work! :p

[Skib]

OK you knowledgeable people. I have been riding almost 4 years. No one has ever told me how to sex a horse I have never seen before. Please educate me. And apart from the sex, how can you tell a stallion from a gelding?

OK again, may be I should have asked a teacher, but we British are a bit embarassed about things like that.
Leslie Desmond complained about the dirty sheath of one horse brought to her UK demo - but I didnt find out anything about cleaning a horse's sheath or the sexual needs of horses in the books I had till I went to America and got a book by John Lyons. I read it on the plane from Billings to Mineapolis and closed it hastily at one point because of the man sitting besdide me.
But even the John Lyons book (like all the other books I have) assumes you know what sex your horse is!
So imagine I am in a field with some unknown horses and give me some guidance please.

[SkyLady]

Usually just having a look at the abdomen just in front of the hind legs will tell you. It is usually pretty easy to spot the prepuce (a kind of skin flap) of geldings and stallions, which is the entrance to where all the male reproductive organs are stored. Stallions have a scrotum and geldings don't, which again is usually pretty easy to spot. Unless of course the gelding or the stallion has everything located a bit further back than usual. The other way is to have a look under the tail, mares have their vulvar located below the anus and yes you guessed it stallions and geldings don't. If you don't want to get too close to the horse, you can wait until they pee, stallions and geldings will usually drop their penis to pee, and mares will squirt out the back.

[Chablis]

Oh and stallions, um, have balls...

Think of a gelding like a human male Eunuch - no sex drive.

Mares also have teats in front of their 'privates'.

[HorseyGurl]

you can wait until they pee, stallions and geldings will usually drop their penis to pee, and mares will squirt out the back

I'm use to being around and watching mostly geldings, that's what the majority of the horses at the stable are. Well, when I got my mare brought to my house, the breeder and I were watching her when all of a sudden I started peeing. For a split seconded I was worried and about to ask "Oh my what's wrong with her?" when hit me that she's a mare, different "plumbing"

hehe!

[Skib]

Thank you.
So is it right, that if one were out walking and the footpath went through a field of horses (many do), one would not be able to tell their sex unless one went up close and bent down to examine their genitals or lift their tails? Which one wouldn't do anyway with strange horses.
That is very different from how obvious it is with deer or cattle.

And, if you havent been told, can the rest of you always tell what you are riding - mare, or gelding?

I had good reason to ask, because I have got it wrong though not quite as bad as the lady you laugh at. I learned to ride (mostly) on four geldings. These days the four horses I ride are all mares.

I thought I could tell when riding if I was on a mare or a gelding. But in the USA I rode three times on a quarter horse I really liked and assumed was a mare, and only to discover he was a gelding. The wrangler was very kind and said he behaved very like a mare. But I felt an idiot because I liked this horse so much and had liked him possibly because I thought he was female like me?
But it made me question my stereotyping of horses by gender.

And do the rest of you always ask the gender of the horse you are about to mount?

[LindaAd]

Thank you.
So is it right, that if one were out walking and the footpath went through a field of horses (many do), one would not be able to tell their sex unless one went up close and bent down to examine their genitals or lift their tails? Which one wouldn't do anyway with strange horses.
That is very different from how obvious it is with deer or cattle.

And, if you havent been told, can the rest of you always tell what you are riding - mare, or gelding?

<snip>

And do the rest of you always ask the gender of the horse you are about to mount?

You don't usually need to bend down, it's generally pretty obvious which are the male ones, like with dogs ... Although when I was a child, I found it really difficult to tell for ages. I really don't know why.

As for what you're riding, well I don't think there's any way of telling once you're on its back. If it's a riding school horse, I generally have a quick look. And the name is often a clue ...

This thread reminds me of the first time my cat had a litter of three kittens. I read in a book about how to sex them, spent ages studying their tiny little "bits", and eventually decided I had two males and a female. But the two males were returned from the good homes I'd found for them: what I really had was three females, and the difference I thought I'd seen was purely imaginary ...

Linda

[cvb]

Skib - I think LindaAd's comparison to dogs is useful, cos you get the same option of entires or castrated males.

And with the males, it can be obvious from a distance, or they can be more....er... slightly built so you need to get closer !

When they are small and furry its even more difficult to tell without ducking down to check ;)

[Esther.D]

And with the males, it can be obvious from a distance, or they can be more....er... slightly built so you need to get closer !



Rupert always has everyone confused as he is pretty and mare-like in appearance and not very 'well-endowed' shall we say :o People never believe he is not a mare until they get closer and realise that, yes, he is definately a gelding :D

[horsemadmandy]

I have never really thought about the differences between the sexes until I took Bruce to a Natural horse environment where the girls and boys live together. Wow THEy NEED so much personal space and are very grumpy on the ground when with the boys! I have only ridden one Mare and she was so brave and It felt completely different to all the geldings I have ridden who seem to be more distracted and naughty when they are in that mood.