Clicker - when to reward?

[rabbit]

I have just started clicker training my horse.

Yesterday I taught her to back up 4 or 5 steps and she will get a click and treat. I refined the backing up so I did not need to use a lead rope, rather just waved my arm side to side as a cue.

Today I reinforced that behaviour and introduced a ball for her to target.


I got her to target the ball a few times in my hand, then I put the ball on the ground.

She didnt seem to catch on initially, and started offering me the "back up" behaviour, despite me not providing the cue.

Do I click and reward for the backing up, even though I wanted her to target the ball?

In the end, she did start to understand that touching the ball on the ground resulted in a treat, but I'm sure I will come across the same issue when I progress to other tricks.

[virtuallyhorses]

I think you are going a little quick. The very first lesson with the clicker is simply to associate the clicker and the reward. However, let's assume that you did that already.

This 'searching' behaviour is quite normal. The horse knows that you want something but isn't sure what it is - so it will run through the things that it already knows. No, do not reward behaviour that you didn't ask for. Instead make the thing you are asking for easier to work out.

So in this case you should have started by presenting the ball just in front of her nose - so that she could accidentally bump into it very easily, get a click and treat. Then as she realised what the reward was for you can begin moving the ball away. Anytime that the horse starts to get confused - make it easier again.

Always work in little increments. Return to something 'easy' whenever the horse gets too confused. Clicker training is effective because it is fun and positive , if it's too hard then the horse will get confused and frustrated.

[rabbit]

Thanks for the info.

I did do an intro to clicker session with my horse before starting anything else...

I would say that you are correct and I should have gone back a step with the ball in hand. I will try to be more patient next time :D

It was so funny to see my horse backing its way up the paddock all by itself !!!

[Miriam]

Never reward your horse for either doing what you have not asked or if you click accidently. Just count to 10 and repeat what you are asking your horse. If you ask your horse to do something and it is not responding again stop count to 10 and ask again. Always reward after the click when the horse has done what you have asked.


With the ball, click and reward at the slightest touch (even accidental) or even if the horse does not touch but goes towards the ball.

[mayS]

I LOVE clicker training. :) It accomplished things that other methods didn't when trying to train my ex-farm Belgian. I LOVE it. I love the Clicker Training Your Horse book, and I love spending time with other clicker people to share tips.

To solve the ball problem, don't confuse her by then asking for the backing. Stay focused -- we want her to target the ball. When a horse seems to be confused, go back a step in that same training (a step back targeting the ball, in this case).

Step 1: perfect her targeting the ball right in front of her. The secret to making clicker work is to go in babysteps: move the ball a little farther away each time. For example, hold in front of her nose till he gets that right. After a few tries a light bulb will go on -- the horse discovers "I can get all the treats I want by doing X behavior". Suddenly the horse is focusing more on you and on trying to please.

Step 2: Hold the ball at the same height, just a little to one side of her head; make her bend the neck a little to reach it. Once she gets that, stand there but hold the ball a little lower. Get her to get that right. Then you can progress to setting closer and closer to the ground.... then once it's on the ground, you can try moving it a few feet at a time away from him.

Two advanced ideas using targeting:
1) Teach them to target and HOLD the touch on the object. On video on clicker I saw used this trick to deal with a unruly horse who would bolt out of his stall as soon as anyone tried to enter. The trainer taught the target-and-hold idea and hung the object at the rear wall. Now when he sees the trainer, he goes to the rear of his stall and touches the target waiting for his treat -- no more escapee!

2) Use it as a tool for leading. Get her to follow the target as you very slowly step away from her. Once that is perfected, you can lead with the Target. The example I saw of this used a paddle-shaped object (easy to see for the horse, easy to hold for the person). The horse followed the paddle around and right onto a trailer -- he could focus on the object and his treat to come that he no longer worried about the scary trailer. One could then hang the object inside the trailer and have him touch-and-hold on the trailer till the door is shut. Of course this will take a bit of time and clicker training on your part, but it's amazing what you can accomplish with the simple idea of targeting an object.

Baby steps! No matter what you want, break it down to smaller steps. And going back to the last spot in training he got right when he gets confused. :D

It's not only normal, it's great she is offering you the already-taught (backing) behavior. She knows that's something you liked and so she's going to try it to see if it pleases you enough to get that treat. When you just stand still and let them offer things to you, it's called "free shaping". You just wait for the horse to offer something you want, then Click+Reward for it. After a few times accidentally doing the activity and getting C+R, they'll keep offering it! It's a fun way to shape behavior without having to figure out "how the heck do I ask for X?"

The other concept with clicker is that of "extinction". If you ignore a behavior enough times, they stop offering it. In this case, backing WITHOUT a cue first shouldn't be rewarded. Soon she will back ONLY when you cue first. Don't be upset if she backs, turns, or steps about trying to get treats for other things... she's just trying random things in an effort to guess what you want. Just stick with it -- don't reinforce for backing unless you cue for it. (She won't forget the "back on cue" behavior if you ignore the "backing without a cue" one)

My personal advice is to teach a specific cue for each behavior as you teach them. Never reward a taught behavior unless you specifically asked for it first. You don't want her offering, for example backing up, when you're training in a smaller area and she might back into someone.

Your cues can be anything! To make it easier you can use pick ones that are natural pressure in that direction (aides) or you can make up something totally arbitrary (eg. a word or a specific hand motion). Just pick your cues wisely and be consistent.

I LOVE clicker and I try to get everyone I know to give it a shot. I was amazed how well it worked and how cooperative my horse became. And don't forget you can use Click+Reward with existing things he's been taught before to get more consistent responses and a more eager-to-please horse. Example is if your horse doesn't always lower his head when asked... use the method he already knows, but start doing C+R when he gets it right... and be amazed when he does it better and without delay. I've even heard of people using clicker to train while in saddle, even to train things like dressage movements.

For more information, I recommend you consider:

-the book - Clicker Training your horse by Kurland
info about it on amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1860542921/qid=1126486467/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2362609-9850448?v=glance&s=books)

-Karen Pryor's clicker training your horse web site (http://www.clickertraining.com/home/)

- another trainer's interpretation on clicker, On Target Training (http://www.on-target-training.com/)

- I highly recommend the official discussion group for asking your clicker questions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clickryder/

and as much as possible, watch any videos or go to clinics on it

[michelle c]

hi, i was going to offer somer help but it looks like other people have beten me to it!!!! :D once your horse gets the hang of playing with the ball you will find it hard to stop him. my horse can now follow me at walk trot stop and back up just by my body language, she can also target most things aswellas standing on a block when i point at it!!!! :D keep on going youur horse will get it and come on in leaps and bounds when you stick at it!!!! :D