Look at the Fhoenix!

[Drummers mum]

I just posted this on EE so I thought I would copy it across as I did promise a thread when I got to try one!

OK, I am seriously in love! :blush:

jvt came to give me a lesson and brought her 18" GP Fhoenix for me to have a go! :D

Most importantly, Drummmer seemed to like it! :D but I loved it! It has a wider feel than my Fitform but the knee rolls were fantastic! I had forgotten what they were like! :huh:

My first impression was that I felt loads higher but that soon wore off. I couldn't feel Drummer as much as I can in the Fitform but that had the added benefit that he couldn't feel me! :rolleyes:

We both felt that Drummer went better in it and I had a much more stable lower leg. I did find trot a little hard, I felt I was being thrown further out of the saddle and consequently loosing my balance slightly and tipping.........canter was a dream though, once I had stopped being tense I didn't move! :D

I felt very secure, which was something I was worried about and I could really feel when my weight wasn't on my seatbones evenly, which I find hard in the fitform!

All in all, I WANT ONE!!! :lol:

Anyway, here are some pics, Drummer is 12.2hh and I am 5'4" so we don't look too bad, although I am going to trial a 16" with view to purchase early next year. (don't tell the OH though, he really doesn't understand!!)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Mostlydrummer/Fhoenix007.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Mostlydrummer/Fhoenix005.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Mostlydrummer/Fhoenix001.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/Mostlydrummer/Fhoenix.jpg

[Drummers mum]

Mind you, seeing my fat bum in 18" I don't know if it will go in the 16" :( :D

[notpoodle]

oooh i like it :D it looks ever so comfy!!!

julia
x

[Tiber]

I'm jealous. I want one too! Do you think she'd bring it all the way to Bedford to give me a lesson? ;)

[Drummers mum]

Lol! :D She is very good, I'm in trouble for letting Drummer get away with too much! :o So here comes the new tough me!! :p

[No_Angel]

Looks nice, looks a bit like plasticine :D Though I think I prefer the look of my Konklusion Still.

The 18inch isnt too bad is it, the flaps look a little big, but its not too long on his back.

[Showjumper]

Wahey! That looks great on him :D

[Drummers mum]

Looks nice, looks a bit like plasticine :D Though I think I prefer the look of my Konklusion Still.

The 18inch isnt too bad is it, the flaps look a little big, but its not too long on his back.

I wouldn't know because I haven't seen a pic of it to compare!!(((HINT))) :D :D lol!

Jane said the same about the flaps but they were great for me! :D Its funny because my stirrups look quite short but they felt really long! Look at that shoulder hip heel alignment though!!! :D

[Dales_Lover]

My trial one arrives on Wednesday - saw the dressage 18inch with black suede today and it is just WOW - we then compared it to the Ansur and urghhh! Why would you spend that amoutn of money (the same as my pony cost) on a horrible woddne like supposed leather saddle? The Fhoenix looks and feels SO much nicer!

I'm sort of hoping Ebby hates the Fhoenix so that means I can't buy her one :o

[JOJOBA]

The horse I school has one - the dressage version. Our yard retails them.
I have a few pros and cons about this saddle. I suppose my main reservation about it is the extortionate price!!! I dont like sitting so high off the horse's back and if the horse has a slightly longer stride (unlikely with Drummer!) they get a 'broken' feel to them - like they've snapped in the middle under you and you drop a couple of inches. I find the stirrup leathers that come with them a bit of a hassle too and the saddles do tend to slip as well - definitely worth investing in a pad to hold everything in place.
On the upside I like that the stirrup bars are set so far back as it gives you a good position in your leg, I like that the saddle is like an armchair to ride in and so padded! The removable kneerolls are good too, not that Ive ever changed them from the dressage ones.

I was discussing my saddle with Denise O'Reilly after a lesson recently (she is a saddle fitter too) and I said 'Im thinking of just buying a treeless to solve all these fitting issues'. She said 'I think that whole thing's a myth - you have just as many fitting issues with a treeless, they are just different. I wouldnt encourage you to get one.'
First person Ive ever heard who had a negative opinion of them!

Anyway, here's a not-very-flattering picture of the horse and I, riding in the treeless;

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/Hectorandjojo/yoyo1.jpg

Dont know why it came out so tiny sorry.

One thing I will say is that I now ride a couple of holes longer than in that picture, and that the horse's owner recently bought Flexi stirrups for him. At first I didnt like them but now I think they are great - they really secure your lower leg and coupled with that saddle help you to sit much deeper and maintain a correct position. If you're buying the treeless I would definitely reccomend both the anti-slip pad and the flexi stirrups.


Hope you enjoy :)

Jo
xxx

[Dales_Lover]

She said 'I think that whole thing's a myth - you have just as many fitting issues with a treeless, they are just different. I wouldnt encourage you to get one.'


I bet she was applying treed saddle fitting to the treeless - which isn't the best thing to do! I don't see how someone can not encourage anyone to try a saddle that will mould to the horses shape whatever the muscle tone, fatness, skinnines etc - especially after all the trouble I've had over getting a treed saddle to actually fit Ebby. After seeing the Fhoenix in 'real life' today, I do hope Ebby enjoys her 4 rides in the next 2 weeks in it - even if she is the size of a small hot air balloon at the moment, as her treed saddle won't go anywhere near her.

Is the Fhoenix (s) at your yard being used with the Suberpanels or not? They increase lateral stability, and take the place of the normal Prolite pad you should use normally underneath.

As for the price - seen the price of the Ansur's lately? The one I saw (and wasn't particually impressed with either) was the same price as my pony. I could buy nearly two Fhoenix's for that. Money much more well spent. And you are paying for the quality.

I don't even have a treeless - but love my dressage leathers - how easy are they to put up/down a hole?! And you can't even feel them under you!

[JOJOBA]

Ive ridden my horse in the treeless a few times and to be honest couldnt feel the slightest difference in him, apart from him feeling a bit bigger due to my being so high up! :p
As for the price - seen the price of the Ansur's lately? The one I saw (and wasn't particually impressed with either) was the same price as my pony. I could buy nearly two Fhoenix's for that. Money much more well spent. And you are paying for the quality.
The Fheonix costs about what my horse did!


I dont know whether she was applying normal saddle fitting but I was surprised she said it - especially in front of our YO who sells the treeless saddles. I dont know much about her career as a saddle fitter but she's a very good instructor (I dont know if you know her? She was trained by Mary Wanless).

I dont know if you read any of my saddle fitting threads but trust me, I have had a complete HELL of a time trying to fit a saddle to my horse - Im sure the NR members are fed up of hearing about it! He has a custom made Farrington Dressage saddle but Im not happy with it :(

Im very picky about saddles!


xxx

[Drummers mum]

I dont know if you read any of my saddle fitting threads but trust me, I have had a complete HELL of a time trying to fit a saddle to my horse - Im sure the NR members are fed up of hearing about it! He has a custom made Farrington Dressage saddle but Im not happy with it
Don't mean to be rude but that can't have been cheap!! :p Also, remember you are saving yourself the cost of reflocking and any adjustments that have to be made to a treed saddle.

I agree with Dales Lover about the fitting, has your instructor actually had a good look at the Fhoenix? I have read alot of your saddle fitting threads (and feel for you, it must be a nightmare) and I would have thought the Fhoenix could solve alot of your problems, have you talked to Heather?

I didn't have any slipping troubles at all, I never have with any of my treeless and Drummer is as round as they come. :D I did feel higher up though, but then I am used to my Fitform which is very thin, almost like a bareback pad.

I would never go back to treed now though, treed is like sitting on a saddle on a horse where as treeless is like sitting in a saddle round a horse! :rolleyes: :D ;)

[No_Angel]

Treeless saddles still have a bit of taboo around them and im pretty sure most BHS trained riding instructors donr agree with them, just because they have been drilled about bits and trees, they dont/cant be bothered to understand. The fitting of a treeless saddle is completly different from a treed, cant pinch the witheres, cant be too low on the withers, there is nothing hard to hurt them. Well enough of my rant :D

Murphy my cob didnt feel any different when I switched him to treeless, he actually went better in his treed saddle with his first treeless, but I knew I was doing the better thing for him, now hes got his Ansur (dressage version) is schooling is fantastic and has come on leaps and bounds, Emily you just wait till you try him when you come to visit :D (hint) your legs might pop out their sockets but he can move for a hw cob (when he wants to :rolleyes: )
If you horse is still thinking he will be hurt from his treed saddle he will be tense and not trust the saddle, more than a few rides will tell you if he likes it.
Having read your threads about your saddle fitting woes, I wouldnt put any treed saddle near that horses back, I would definatly see about treeless and maybe a custom suberpad with more cork at the back to start with, just a thought.

Will try and get some pictures of my BEAUTIFUL (dont care what anyone says, i love em) Ansur saddles :D

[No_Angel]

Pictures are a bit wonky due to my suberb photography skills, thank god the bfs good at it, otherwise all my pictures would be awfull :rolleyes: :D

[Drummers mum]

They do look nice! :D Very long though or is that just an illusion? What are they made of?

What I really liked about the Fhoenix was the way it molded to you as well as the horse. Before I sat on it, it looked quite flat but after a couple of minutes I kind of sunk in and I couldn't move in the saddle like you can in a treed saddle especially if the seat is too big!

I took the hint! :D I will have to try to arrange a time to come up! :D I would really love too. Are you coming to your horse live?

[No_Angel]

My saddle (the Konklusion- jumping one) is a 17 1/2 inch seat, a small as they call it, and moms is a 17 inch seat, a petite.

The flaps are butt leather, but mine has suede under the flaps, and moms has soft leather that looks like it hasnt been rubbed, but if it was would be suede, if you get me,lol :D
The seat and knee rolls and top of the pommell are grainy leather, softer than the butt leather (which is extreamly supple) and looks to be shoulder leather (can you tell ive been listening in my saddlery lectures :D ), moms has the same grainy leather on the seat and knee rolls.

[JOJOBA]

Don't mean to be rude but that can't have been cheap!! Also, remember you are saving yourself the cost of reflocking and any adjustments that have to be made to a treed saddle.

It was 600 pounds, so almost half what the fheonix costs! Denise was yet another person to tell me that my saddle does not need reflocking (?). I get the feeling Im just being really picky, I keep hiring people I think will agree with me and they keep telling me my saddle fits!

Treeless saddles still have a bit of taboo around them and im pretty sure most BHS trained riding instructors donr agree with them
Which is why I was surprised when my YO (BHS something or other, used to hunt and do dressage) and the Training Manager (BHS something high! Used to event but now does NH) started selling them. I would have thought Denise would be fairly open to them - most of the horses on our yard she teaches are ridden in them.

If you horse is still thinking he will be hurt from his treed saddle he will be tense and not trust the saddle, more than a few rides will tell you if he likes it.Having read your threads about your saddle fitting woes, I wouldnt put any treed saddle near that horses back, I would definatly see about treeless and maybe a custom suberpad with more cork at the back to start with, just a thought.
Well all this would be a great plan if I actually had just over a thousand pounds going spare! As it is I dont, so Im stuck with the one I have for the moment. I still would choose a correctly fitting treed saddle over a treeless one, it's just finding that correctly fitting saddle (I think it's a myth :p).
Besides, I dont believe his treed saddle hurts him at all - he goes the same way in his saddle ridden, lunging with it on, lunging or longreining with it off, being ridden bareback etc etc. The main reason Im so unhappy with it is that it doesnt fit me more than it doesnt fit him. That was one thing we all agreed on - Denise said she 'loved the way the panels had been widened, loved the point straps, loved the cut back pommel and straight cut flaps', but couldnt see why whoever made it thought it needed to 'sit up like a begging dog'. :p
She also said how comfy it was to ride in but that it immadiately puts you in the wrong place. She suggested a Corrector (Korrector?) pad?

Sorry didnt mean to hijack your thread Drummer's Mum. I was going to write about this on another thread of my own but you got me started here!


xxx

[chapsi]

Hi Drummer's Mum,
I've been following your thread with interest here and at EE.
I used to have a SBS, so I'm familiar with Heather's saddles, but before I commit myself to a Fheonix, I must gather as much information as possible.

A couple of months ago I tried a GP Fhoenix, but at the time I recall that I prefered the feel of my dressage SBS. I felt the saddle slipped a little bit as I mounted, so it wasn't more stable that the SBS, and I felt out of balance in raising trot.
This month I'm likely to try a dressage Fhoenix and I am looking forward to it. I'm hoping it will be better for me than the GP.

As for the slipping, I realise I'll always have this problem with any treeless, depending on the horse's shape, because I'm under 5ft2", despite mounting from a block.

she's a very good instructor (I dont know if you know her? She was trained by Mary Wanless).

I'm not surprised if your instructor is not very keen on HM saddles. Both HM and Mary Wanless have different approaches on riding and can controversial.

[Drummers mum]

Jojoba, I thought that all treed saddles needed reflocking and checking at least once a year, so now you have confused me (doesn't take much, lol! :D )

Its funny how our attitudes change. My first saddle was a Thorowgood Maxam, the cheapest I could find, then I bought the Trekker because I got it cheap! Now I have a Fitform that I didn't blink at paying 400 for and if you are gona go the whole hog whats 600 more between friends, lol!

I have to say that if I hadn't bought the Fitform I would have got the credit card out by now. The Trekker just wasn't right but I am very happy with the Fitform, its a super saddle. :D So the Fhoenix will happen when I have saved enough! :D

Chapsi, I think I would get used to the GP Fhoenix very quickly, after having no leg support at all in the Fiform, it was a shock to be put in the perfect position and to feel so secure. I don't think I could cope with the stirrup position and straighter flaps of the dressage.

Its funny that I don't get any slipping problems, perhaps Drummer has a limpit coat! :D

[Gill]

It looks a lovely saddle. I have the SBS and I'm very happy with that.

[MelanieD]

I have an SBS and have noticed that slipping can depends a lot on what saddlecloth you use underneath it. With sheepskin and polypads, just about anything thick really, there's is lots of slipping. With a plain thin cotton saddlecloth I can mount my xxxw cob from the floor without it moving.

Fhoenix does look nice, but think I'll stick with my SBS for now. My ungrateful pony is as happy in her £160 from ebay wintec wide as in her SBS :rolleyes:

[Tiber]

Fhoenix does look nice, but think I'll stick with my SBS for now. My ungrateful pony is as happy in her £160 from ebay wintec wide as in her SBS :rolleyes:

I want a pony like that! ;)

[MelanieD]

I would appreciate her non-fussyness if I hadn't already spent £900 or so on a posh saddle for her :rolleyes: :D

It's worth keeping her happy, she turns into a bit of a flesh-eating pony if she's not happy with her saddle :rolleyes:

[JOJOBA]

Jojoba, I thought that all treed saddles needed reflocking and checking at least once a year, so now you have confused me

So did I but every time I ask people they say it doesnt need it! I persuaded my instructor that it needed doing, and then persuaded my mum, got my saddler out and she said there was no need. She also said my mum's saddle didnt need doing. I was sure this was wrong so I asked Denise and she also said there was no point in doing it. I try and be a good horse owner and just keep getting it wrong :p

:o


xxx

[tubby]

Drummersmum how big is Drummer, I'm assuming that he's not very large 'cos he's a dartmoor hill pony. If so am very impressed with the fheonix as it doesn't look at all large on him.Am hoping to get a treeless in the spring so am paying a lot of attention to these threads.