Losing speed in turns at trot

[Keket]

So my instructor tells me last night that I'm becoming "an awesome rider". Which makes me feel positively thrilled! :D

I'm having a problem though at trot. Now that I've got my diagonals sorted out (which turned out to be a matter of turning off that pesky brain), I have another problem to work on: Maintained speed and rhythm through turns. Sadie likes to slow down the minute she comes off the rail in a circle, so that by the time the circle is finished, she's nearly walking. :(

I keep my inside leg and inside rein on to keep direction and bend through the circle/oval/figure eight. I don't want to put my outside leg on for propulsion, because I don't want to lose the bend. But I also don't want to keep constantly tapping her with the crop.

Any ideas?

[Skyhuntress]

I think if you know that she's going to slow down, you need to counteract it. If she listens to your leg relatively well, give her a small kick. If not, before the corner, give her a smart tap with the crop.

And you shouldn't be worrying about bend whatsoever unless the horse is moving with some impulsion beneath you. So I'd deal with the problem of her not moving first and THEN worrty about getting proper bend from her

[Keket]

It's not so much getting bend as it keeping her on the outside. If I don't keep my inside leg on, she cuts the circle off.

[Tangle]

Nice that you had such a vote of confidence from your instructor :D

Could you elaborate a bit more on how you're asking for bend (how are you using the inside rein? Upwards, backwards, opening, vibrating, squeezing, etc? How about your inside leg?) And also what you're worried will happen if you use you're outside leg? How do you think you'll loose the bend?

From what you've said, my minds pondering two things:
- does Sadie usually do lessons where she just trots large? If so she might think that turn in = come to middle and halt. I'd concentrate on just riding her off the rail - changes of rein across the diagonal or across E-B to get her brain to realise she can keep moving across the middle of the school.

- are you asking for too small a circle? If she isn't supple enough to give enough bend, or fit enough to have enough impulsion with that bend, she might be grinding to a halt as the only option left.

[Tangle]

Just read your reply.

How much contact do you have on the outside rein?

Are you unintentionally asking her to cross behind?

[Keket]

Just read your reply.

How much contact do you have on the outside rein?

Are you unintentionally asking her to cross behind?

Little to no contact on the outside rein. Maybe a bit if she starts to drift into the circle. And I'm not sure what you mean by 'cross behind'?

[Tangle]

You might want to try more outside rein to keep her on the circle, but it's difficult to say for sure without being able to see you ride - she could be cutting in for a number of reasons, and not all of them will be helped by more outside rein....

By crossing behind I mean that instead of moving her inside hind on the same track as the inside fore it goes to the outside - so kind of like a turn on the forehand while going forwards. If you're using a lot of inside leg, she might be thinking it's a signal that you want her to move her quarters to the outside rather than do a simple circle.

[Keket]

No, I don't think it's that, because I do those with her a lot, and I use different signals for it. Thank you, though. :)

[Tangle]

No, I don't think it's that, because I do those with her a lot, and I use different signals for it. Thank you, though. :)
Well - worth a try :)

Still be interested in the answers to my first raft of questions (when you've got time to wade through them ;))

[LMS]

If it's just a matter of her being lazy, you may want to give the trot aid each time you sit.

Some of our horses in our program (therapeutic) think that the only time they need to trot is along the long side of the arena. So, near the last letter of the long side we know to give the aids at each stride until they figure out that when we (the instructors) exercise ride them, it's not therapy session time, it's work time.

LMS

[Keket]

Could you elaborate a bit more on how you're asking for bend (how are you using the inside rein? Upwards, backwards, opening, vibrating, squeezing, etc? How about your inside leg?) And also what you're worried will happen if you use you're outside leg? How do you think you'll loose the bend?

Just a simple direct aid on the inside rein, not hard, as Sadie hates people being on her mouth too much. My inside leg is kept on around the circle to keep her on the outside of the circle rather than her cutting it off and going wherever she wants. I'm more concerned with keeping her on the track that I want, and less so with actual bend. Inside leg is a bit behind the girth, as that's where my heel naturally falls when I'm in a proper position.

I'm thinking if I have my outside leg, she might think I'm about to turn her to the outside of the circle... But since I have the rein on, maybe now? :confused:

From what you've said, my minds pondering two things:
- does Sadie usually do lessons where she just trots large? If so she might think that turn in = come to middle and halt. I'd concentrate on just riding her off the rail - changes of rein across the diagonal or across E-B to get her brain to realise she can keep moving across the middle of the school.

No, every student rides circles with her, roughly ten metre circles. Going across the diagonal isn't much of an option anyway, as we've got a round-pen in the middle of the school. ;)

- are you asking for too small a circle? If she isn't supple enough to give enough bend, or fit enough to have enough impulsion with that bend, she might be grinding to a halt as the only option left.

I know she's capable of it, because when I really get on her case, she can do it. I'd just like to be able to do it without constantly nagging her.

[galadriel]

Your legs should be constantly sitting against the horse, very lightly. You can then vary the amount of pressure you use to get the right response: a light nudge to a strong push. That will allow you to use outside leg without asking the horse to turn in, for example. Here's some further discussion of this concept:
http://lorienstable.com/articles/riding/300-toes/

Maintain a light contact on your outside rein, even when you're not actively using it. This will help you keep the horse from turning in, while using the outside leg to ask for more speed. You really need four differnt points of guidance, for the horse, at all times: both reins and both legs. You just cary the amount of pressure you use, in order to keep the striahgtness/turn and amount of speed you're asking for.

[Tangle]

Sounds like Sadie's teaching you a lot :p.

In addition to what Galadriel has said, I'd suggest you talk it over with your instructor. The more lessons I've had (and I need a fair few more yet, believe me :rolleyes: ) the more I've come to appreciate that there's more than one way of applying leg aids - so you can have a leg that's asking for bend, asking quarters to move over, asking for more impulsion (or just asking for MORE) and they're all different.

For example, if I want Fifi to bend around my right leg/engage her inside hind I'll brush forwards with it, if I want to go up a gear I'll nudge/tighten my calf, if I want her to push her quarters to the left I'll nudge backwards - and I'm sure there's a hole other level beyond that.

So there should be a signal that you can use with your outside leg that says "keep trotting" but doesn't say "bend this way".

And I'd completely agree with the outside rein, even though I'm useless at keeping an even contact on it myself :o ;)