parelli training for blind mare

[CrazyDaisy]

I had tried to get a trainer that teaches parelli but refused to even look at her since she has some blindness. Why do you think he did this?

[Crystal Fire]

Is it in just one eye? It may be because Parelli uses visual queues quite a lot... but I seem to remember Pat telling me about one of his students with a one-eyed horse...
Is this person a "proper" Parelli instructor or just another of these people that likes to hang someone else's label round their neck? :rolleyes:
I'd be inclined to speak to the Parelli agency or an instructor if you're really keen. Have you tried any clicker training by the way? Or you could use one of the less "systematic" training methods, and then it wouldn't matter if you didn't do everything to the book so much. I'm thinking Silversand because that's what I do, but also maybe John Lyons training.
I'm sure your horse isn't a write-off regarding trying something a bit different :)

[chev]

Almost certainly because Parelli is so visual. I have a gelding who's blind in one eye, and it did make using Parelli almost impossible at times simply because he couldn't see what I was asking.

It's not impossible to do Parelli with blind or partially blind horses though - for example, I had problems with the carrot stick on Gelfy's blind side, so we tied a piece of rattly plastic to it. That way the cue became auditory rather than visual, but still had the desired effect!

All it needs is a trainer who can think a bit more laterally. I have managed to teach my one-eyed gelding to lunge on both sides, and we've almost cracked join-up on the bad side, by introducing sound cues to do the job of body language he can't possible see.

[CrazyDaisy]

She can see shadows to a little from her left but the vet said to treat her as if she was all together blind. I like the idea of the clicker training. She is really good about going off of sound and touch. I didn't know if parelli could be incoperated into what she knows or not. She is an incredible horse and learns very very fast.

[Crystal Fire]

I suppose the question is what do you want to achieve? What did you want to get by doing some Parelli work with her? Maybe it would be easier to advise if you let us know what you want the end result to be. Lots of the things done in Parelli can be taught quite easily using a slightly different approach. Sounds like you could have an interesting project to look forward to!
Personally I'd be thinking about avoiding "phases" as much as possible. She's not going to be able to see them coming the same as another horse would is she?

[chev]

My gelding had serious problems with the phases, especially on his blind side. It does take some thinking to get around that, especially if she has so little sight at all.

If she's responding so well to sound cues, the clicker training might be a better idea; the cues are sound based so would be easier for her to deal with than a system like Parelli, which is heavily based on the visual.

That said, we did manage to adapt a lot of the Parelli games to be less visual; what held us up was the phases. It's possible that a really good trainer could have helped us through that - I chose not to, and we're pretty much achieving what we hoped to without.

[CrazyDaisy]

I guess there are two reasons I would like to try parelli one because I would like to learn the style but more importantly I want to bond as closely as I can with this mare. I like the idea of clicker training is there books? I know people use it with dogs often.

[shirley]

There are books on clicker training for horses. I am attending a three day course based around clicker training in a couple of weeks time at Ashen Equestrian Centre in Suffolk. The first day in introducion, second clicker training on the ground and the third from the saddle. I am looking forward to giving this a really good go, as we have clicker trained our dogs and that has gone well.
But I am certain there are other courses up and down the country too. They do have their own web site and do quite a lot of different things throughout the year by the looks of the schedule etc.
Good luck with what ever method you use. We have a one eyed horse on our yard, and he lunges, long reins etc no problems.

[Kate F.]

Whereabouts are you Crazydaisy?

I think you would be able to use some natural horsemanship exercises with your mare (not necessarily strictly "parelli" but just as effective). You just need to start from the feel standpoint, not the visual.

My mare is totally blind in one eye, and I can do everything with her - I just have to use more "feel" on her blind side. When a horse loses sight in one or both eyes, the rest of the senses compensate - just as with people. You just need to find a trainer who really understands the way horses perceive the world and the things around them, not just someone who's following set exercises or a set method. They will then be able to show you how to adapt the cues for your horse.

In a way the same will apply with clicker training - the only thing that's different there is the way the horse is rewarded. For NH people it's release and stroking, for clicker people its a release and a click. (OK there is more to it than that - bus in essence, it's cue, response, reward either way, and the cue is the thing you have to adapt for your mare.) You'll need more tactile/auditory cues whichever approach you choose.

I was also told that my Sunny was "unsuitable" for natural methods because of her blindness - but believe me, that was a load of rubbish. I was lucky enough to find a trainer with a more depth of understanding and open mind. I was so convinced I'm now a trainer myself, and half-blind Sunny's now the one I use for teaching beginners!

If you have a look at my website, you'll find the sort of exercises we use, and I think you'll see that "feel" is very prominent anyway. You can use most of these as they stand with your mare and they will work just the same as with a sighted horse. If you have any questions, feel free to post here or e-mail me privately.

Good luck!

Kate

[Crystal Fire]

Let us know what you end up doing Crazydaisy - would be interested to hear about it :)
Kate - are you coming to the UK next year at all? I'm planning my leave and travels already...

[katefarmer]

I'm hoping to come over to Cornwall in the early summer. No dates fixed yet - but we were thinking of perhaps end of May-ish.

I'll let you know as soon as I know more!

Cheers

kate
www.harmony-proejct.net

[CrazyDaisy]

I am in the states (new mexico). Wish I still lived in london. :) I think I will go to the bookstore today and do some searching for a local trainer. I am also going to try some of the stuff on your site.
The biggest issue I have had with her is lunging. She HATES it. I can not get her to move out away from me. I had a traditional trainer work with her once and I got no place and I was upset with the trainer. She doesn't have many problems at all this is about the only one.
Her only other issue is dogs. She is fine with the dogs at the barn she lives at but on the trail its another story. Some days she is great and the dogs can bark the heads off no problems. Other days she will side step and take of for about two steps before I calm her. Between the two that is nothing compared to some other horses but that is the only complaints I have with her. I am for sure going to try the clicker I am really excited and also some of the methods on the website. :)
Do the horse clicker people use treats like the dog trainers or not?

[Kate F.]

Hi Crazydaisy!

The "Waltz" exercise on my website will help the lunging situation. Partially sighted horses often do seem to have a problem with lunging - but the waltz usually fixes it - and to a large extent replaces the need for lunging, unless you are lunging to build fitness.

Dogs are natural predators on the horse (or at least, from the horse's point of view they are - as they are related to wolves.) Therefore strange dogs are often a problem - especially for partially sighted horses who are even more wary.

Good luck with your search for a trainer. I'll ask my US based colleagues if they know anyone who does our sort of approach in your neck of the woods.

Horse clicker people do use food treats in the same way as dog clicker people. There are few clicker people on the NR board who are much better qualified to explain it all than I am - perhaps one of them will respond. If you look back on the threads we had a really good debate on NH vs clicker a couple of months ago where we discussed the pros and cons of both which you might find interesting.

All the best and do keep us posted on how you get on!

Kate

[Naturally]

Hi CrazyDaisy,

Your horse is probably nervous and feeling unconfident on the lunge, hence wanting to creep in on you for comfort. It might be too far out for her at this point, so perhaps try circling her on a smaller line for a while and see how she goes. Also don't overdo it, if she's unconfident she needs to take it in baby steps to build up her confidence.

[CrazyDaisy]

Ok I will try the waltz with her friday or saturday if I get a chance to use the arena it sure worth a go. I have tried smaller circles (lead rope length) and she is fine for a minute or two but starts to worry again and starts trying to come back to me.
Is there any good way to calm down her fear of dogs? I have a dirt road with fenced in dogs that I could use but at the same time I don't want to upset her even more. At least she isn't afraid of semi trucks we went past alot of those yesterday with no problem if she was my last mare I would have been launched into the air and onto my butt.

[julesandjoy]

I have a pony who is blind in one eye. I bought her for my 10yo son to replace the smaller pony he'd outgrown. I'd known this pony for a couple of years but she'd only been blinded a few months. She'd had nothing done w/her since she was blinded but had been ridden by an older man and then sold to a young boy - who, btw, got bucked off her regularly. :-)

She was jumpy and spooky at first but all we did was to make the sighted side visually cued and the blinded side verbally cued.

When you lead her on her blind side she's apt to put her face next to your arm for reference. She goes out on the trials and jumps ditches and canter through whatever's there like any horse. You'd never know to look at her that she's blind.

My son wanted to run barrels and stuff like that. Farrier said she'd never do 'cause she was blind and had, to my knowledge, never been in a 'show' situation before.

He won several of his classes at the last show we went to. He rides barrels, poles, arena race, western pleasure, he jumps her over ditches and trees out ont he trail. We had her hooked up to a grund slide this past week and he drove her around the yard. Pretty doggone sure she's never been even long-lined let alone pulled anything. She is a very, very nice little pony and nobody better tell HER she's blind in that eye!!!!!

I don't use Parelli methods persea. I like Clinton Anderson and Parelli and John Lyons. I just take the basic premise that 'whatever the horse is doing when you quite whatever it is that you're doing is what the horse has learned to do' and go from there.

And, personally, I don't see why in the world you can't use Parelli's system (phases included - just make them verbal... duh) w/a blind horse.

Parelli is, afterall, all about getting along w/your horse better, right????? sylvia

[julesandjoy]

My gelding had serious problems with the phases, especially on his blind side. It does take some thinking to get around that, especially if she has so little sight at all.

If she's responding so well to sound cues, the clicker training might be a better idea; the cues are sound based so would be easier for her to deal with than a system like Parelli, which is heavily based on the visual.

That said, we did manage to adapt a lot of the Parelli games to be less visual; what held us up was the phases. It's possible that a really good trainer could have helped us through that - I chose not to, and we're pretty much achieving what we hoped to without.



Why did the phases hold you up? Parelli is about thinking laterally to begin with. Say you ask her to step off on the loung line by clicking. Click one or two or three times and add a hand slap (against your own thigh) and then change the cluck to a 'sshshsht' sound and then start gently and rhythmically popping her shoulder w/the lead or stick.

I would imagine that the third or fourth time you went through these phases the horse would catch on pretty fast that a click means to step off.

My 10yo son lounges that pony I spoke of in my previous post. To stop her we simply say her name, "MOLLY... MOLLY... MOLLY" until she turns to face us. We'll add a finger snap and then the last 'phase' would be to actually step up and pop her rump. She already knows what that is 'cause we've introduced it at a stand-still.

It's not very difficult to change up training methods to suit either yourself, your horse, or your situation w/o losing effectivess. You might not be able to 'climb the ranks' to a super-star trainer and tout that specific clinician's BrandName but if you and your horse get along, then who cares? sylvia