Windsucking-help!!!!!!!!

[jumper-4-joy]

My horse windsucks! This is an incredibly annoying habit where the horse grasps an object in his teeth and sucks air. He moans and kinda pulls back while doing this. This is very annoying!!!! He doesn't pay attention to me, and is just not himself while he does this. Does anyone know how to break a horse of this stupid habit???? :( :( :(

[Skyhuntress]

Try a cribbing collar.

[chev]

First you need to try and discover the cause. Cribbing is a reaction to stress. Watch your horse for a while; does he do it more when he's stabled? Does he do it before or after feeding? Does he do it when he's alone? Make a note of what situations seem to trigger the behaviour. Just slapping a collar on him really isn't the answer - it's like tying the hands of a nailbiter behind their back. It doesn't address teh cause of the behaviour at all.

Cribbing is a complex behaviour. Foals weaned early, those weaned abruptly, and those weaned alone tend to develop these behaviours more than those left on their mum til 6 months or more and weaned with a group. Horses with gastric ulcers often crib. Horses who are kept in very stressed, highly managed regimes (like racehorses for example) tend to have a higher rate of cribbing than those who live more relaxed, natural-type lives with lots of company and turnout.

You might find that you can help or even cure the behaviour by addressing the things that cause your horse stress. That might mean changing his routine to give him more access to turnout, or feeding an antacid to help address any gastric problems.

You don't say much about your horse's regime, or when he's most likely to crib, so it's difficult to suggest help. Some horses that crib stop or reduce their cribbing when their diet is changed from one high in concentrates to a forage-based diet. There are many many things that have a bearing on cribbing, and there's usually a lot we can do to help. But please do try and figure out the causes before just fitting a collar.

[KarinUS]

It's not an annoying habit, it's a stereotypy. He doesn't do it to bug you. Don't take it personal and don't take your frustration out on him. Most definitely don't use a cribbing collar as it does absolutely nothing to resolve his need to crib.
From my experience it is largely related to diet and environment.

[Naturally]

My understanding is generally a mineral deficiency. I'd contact a equine natural therapist or dietry adviser.

[MissFliss]

There are a lot of myths, theories and downright prejudices against horses who windsuck,and how they should be handled. My opinion, and it is only one of many, is that is is sparked by diet and/or boredom, but it can be addictive and very, very hard to stop it if it becomes entrenched.

My horse, Toby is a chronic windsucker and has been doing it for at least ten years. He lives out 24/7 with 3 companions, is fed a special diet for older horses containing a probiotic and has good pasture. I also add aloe to his feed, however he still windsucks and probably will untill he dies. It's just a habit he can't break, and there is very little that can be done. The cause is so long gone that it can't be treated.

Unlike many on this board, I am not totally anti-collar. I have used a miracle collar on Toby when he first came to me as he was very thin and would suck instead of eat. I found it to be a fairly good deterrant and allowed him to eat, drink and play with his mates without hinderance. However, I also treated it as mentioned and the time he spends eating now outweighs his time sucking, and now he is up to a reasonable weight he does not wear it.

I can only recommend doing a heap of research and trying different things. I agree that a dietician can assist. But I have had to just get used to the high tide mark on my strainer posts and the guilty look he gives me when I catch him at it!!

One thing I must add is that it is not a behaviour copied by other horses. My other three, including a 4 year old colt, doen't even try.

MissFliss

[LMS]

When a horse cribs it gives them a high as it releases a "feel good" chemical. Endorphins I believe.
"It is an anxious trait. It's estimated that 15 percent of domestic horses exhibit similar behavior, called obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). This includes cribbing, pawing, weaving, blanket-chewing, head-bobbing or other repetitive actions."

"These are often referred to as stable vices, but are actually different. Vices are unwanted and undesirable reactions that can be corrected through proper handling and training. Obsessive-compulsive behaviors are abnormal expression of normal behavior."

Windsucking is the next stage: when the horse does not grasp an object to suck in the air.
There are a few collars out there from mild to extremely severe. The latest one is called the "miracle collar" it splits off in two straps over the poll, so far in my opinion , it's the best one out there.
I had a QH that cribbed then later windsucked. He was quite intelligent & high strung. He needed to keep his mind busy.

Mineral defiency? I doubt it (but you learn something new every day). My horse was in perfect health and strongly believe that it's personality/type related. Just like some horses weave.

Unfortunatly, two years before he was put to rest, where he was kept (at my in-laws while I searched for stabling near my new home), they didn't understand why he needed the collar, besides it kept slipping sideways (it was the metal "nutcracker" type) and they couldn't be bothered to adjust it every day. So they took it off without telling me.

By the time I came back to get him, he no longer had front upper teeth. I was very PO'd!

Midnight is the horse I most fondly remember and doubt I'll ever come across another horse like him. He was a successful barrel racer (so I heard) and was so ingrained at being a performance "machine" that it took a lot of patience & time to make him a "horse" again and build a bond with a human.

LMS

Here's a link I came across that gives a brief explanation:http://www.petcaretips.net/cribbing_horse.html

[jumper-4-joy]

Thank you everyone! I know have many different opinions nand ideas.

Thank You!!! :D :D :D :D

[shirley]

We have a pony that windsucks. She has done this for the past three plus years we have had her and did it almost constantly when we first had her. We changed her diet to ad lib hay, 24/7 turnout as much as possible, put her next to her bond pair, so as they could see and touch each other in the stable. Cut right back on concentrates, just high fibre with vitamin / mineral supplements - she was / is only in light work. Although the cribbing and sucking did not go it has diminished significantly. We have learnt to ignore it now. The other horses around her have never exhibitied the same behaviour, so about it being learnt is a myth. We feel it is something she will now always do - not actual problems, just a habit - like some kids never grow out of sucking their thumb.
She is the sweetest, dearest of characters. The idea of using a cribbing collar horrified me, so has never worn one. We have tried different solutions you paint on surfaces and these have not worked either. So we will let her be, live with it and accept it as being part of who she actually is. If other people comment and do not like it then that is their right to their opinion, I do not have to stand and listen to it - and acutally their opinion does not count for anything. We love our pony just the way she is - thankyou!!!
Just love your horse for who they are - each one has something we do not wish they had, but in the bigger picture of things does it really matter. Do you get bucked off everytime you ride, does she kick you, bite you etc these would be much bigger problems. I do not suppose she does, so cribbing is really only a minor nuisance.
Good luck with her - but please please please do not see only this in her - it really is not the biggest deal in the world.

[eml]

Echo others please don't resort to a cribbing collar. Current research suggests implications of stomach ulcers and certainly my cribbing TB is better on an antacid supplement.

Equally if you bit your fingernails would you tie your hands up or look for your stress factors....please do the same with your horse or pass him onto someone who is not concerned about his cribbing. It is not 'a stupid habit you can break' but a long standing phsycological/physical problem.

[hackedoff]

j4j- I dont know how your horse is kept but one of my horses was a chronic cribber when I got him. He was stabled 24/7 for at least 4 years that I know about and given hard feed and hay only twice a day.
He now lives with a big herd in a big field and gets unlimited hay if in the stable block and no hard feed at all, and guess what...? the cribbing is down to about 10% of what it was. In fact ive seen him go to crib, then change his mind and eat some hay instead! As I said I dont know how your horse is kept, in Wizard's case it was realatively easy to see what could be changed to help him.

[smaggi]

Unlike many on this board, I am not totally anti-collar. I have used a miracle collar on Toby
MissFliss

Me too. Cisco is a very light cribber. He is kept out in pasture most of the time. He is stalled in the afternoon in August because of the flies. He is stalled any other time of year only when the weather is very rainy, sleet, ... When he is stalled, it is in an open stall with access to a round pen to alleviate boredom. He is never stalled alone in the barn. When he is stalled he is given lots of small meals instead of 2 large ones to help with boredom.

He seems to crib when he wants oats. He is the worst right after he has finished his bowl of oats and wants more. He has free access to a salt mineral block and I have tried mineral suppplements, but they made no difference.

The Weaver Miracle Collar is very good. He does not mind it a bit. He doesn't have to wear tight at all and he stops cribbing instantly. He can eat, drink, and play normally while wearing it. I do not have it on the entire time he is stalled. I only use it when cribbing is an issue especially around grain time.

[sweuzo]

cribbing can be cause by many things it i s a reaction to stress, a horses way of coping with stress. so stop him from doing with a collar etc and you are stopping him from being able to cope, look to the underlying causes and workingon those is a much better thing.

horse do it often if they don't have enough forage, as horses constantly product stomach acids they need to constantly graze etc to produce saliva and nurtralize the acid... horses only p[roduce saliva when they eat... but cribbing/windsucking also produces saliva so they do this to try and neutralize the acid.... concentrates take less time to digest that hay etc, dsome products aimed to help settle stomachs may help.

there are many other causes, lonliness, being stabled too much as has already been said, deficiencies in diet...

[kayjayhorses]

I've never owned a 'cribber' but had come across one at a previous yard, the horse was bought knowing she cribbed and was bought with a collar one of those horrible metal things, she had it on at the correct tightness (didn't like it but not my horse) and still managed to crib, may have not been able to suck so hard/deeply but she still went through the process of doing it, she had long days out in the paddock and stabled at night but she was seen cribbing out in the paddock using the fences.

Definately agree you have to find the cause, minimise the cause and the collar doesn't stop the horse wanting to do it.

My mare is quite exciteable and seems to want lots of activity I bought her one of those dechrehedron (so sorry about the spelling) I put some treats in and IF she needs to stay in for whatever reason (try to avoid this when ever possible) she has this ball and spends ages launching it around her stable, then she pops her head over the door just to check she's not missing out on anything then goes back to it.

[jumper-4-joy]

Thanks for all of the ideas, however, he does it even worse now. No, I have NOT put a collar on him. But, he windsucks in his pen, he grabs the side of his feeder and windsucks, he even does it when I'm grooming him!!! He has a partner in his pen, and they usually have full acess to the arena, unless someone is riding, of course. I am still out of ideas. I'm thinking maybe he doesn't know that it is "wrong". How can I tell him it is wrong? No, I don't want to hurt him (duh). I love him and i just want to help!!!!

[KarinUS]

What has changed? Is there less grass than there used to be? What does his diet look like?

[jumper-4-joy]

He actually gets more hay than before. You see, I am leasing him, and before, they gave him one flake. I give him 2 1/2 since he is 17.3 hands! I've had him for months, and changed the amout increase gradually. He has just started jumping. Should i be giving him a supplement. How would this affect the windsucking problem??? :(

[zippytys]

Hiya, my 2yr old tb filly started to crib and was progressing to windsucking, she is brilliant in every other way but I wanted to try and stop the habit incase it caused her trouble in later life (loss of condition, gastric ulcers etc). I have tried stable toys (treat balls, lickits, salt licks etc), she also ALWAYS has plenty of hay in the stable, is turned out for 12 hrs a day (this is as much as the yard will allow) and can see horses in the stables next to her. She is not particularily stressed but seems to just enjoy her habit (a bit like smokers enjoy a cigarette). The best thing I have found to help her is a product called SETTLELEX its a feed supplement made by FEEDMARK and is an antacide to help settle the stomach, there has been alot of research behind it and it seems to work pretty well for a lot of horses. Aswell as this Joli has a stable mirror and she also has flower remedies in her feed twice a day. I use essence of Walnut, Honeysuckle and Snapdragon. Hope this is useful to you. Personally I would only use a collar as a last resort and then I would only use the humane miracle collar but only use this is you are very experienced at fitting them, I work in a Horse rescue centre and have seen some horrific injuries from so called human collars. Good luck.

[puzzles]

First you need to try and discover the cause. Cribbing is a reaction to stress. Watch your horse for a while; does he do it more when he's stabled? Does he do it before or after feeding? Does he do it when he's alone? Make a note of what situations seem to trigger the behaviour. Just slapping a collar on him really isn't the answer - it's like tying the hands of a nailbiter behind their back. It doesn't address teh cause of the behaviour at all.

Cribbing is a complex behaviour. Foals weaned early, those weaned abruptly, and those weaned alone tend to develop these behaviours more than those left on their mum til 6 months or more and weaned with a group. Horses with gastric ulcers often crib. Horses who are kept in very stressed, highly managed regimes (like racehorses for example) tend to have a higher rate of cribbing than those who live more relaxed, natural-type lives with lots of company and turnout.

You might find that you can help or even cure the behaviour by addressing the things that cause your horse stress. That might mean changing his routine to give him more access to turnout, or feeding an antacid to help address any gastric problems.

You don't say much about your horse's regime, or when he's most likely to crib, so it's difficult to suggest help. Some horses that crib stop or reduce their cribbing when their diet is changed from one high in concentrates to a forage-based diet. There are many many things that have a bearing on cribbing, and there's usually a lot we can do to help. But please do try and figure out the causes before just fitting a collar.

200% agree! :D

Rather than trying to stop your horses only way of relieving his stress, you must instead relieve him of the stress and its cause in the first place. Cribbing collars will only increase this stress as he will no longer be able to relieve himself of it.
Perhaps try an antacid? What is your horses routine (inc. feed, turnout, company, exercise, etc)?

x

[Sophie..*]

One of the horses at are stables was windsucking. And they found out that if they used a Miller bit he was much better...???

[puzzles]

But the best cure is not necessarily the quickest/initial cure? It is the sure that solves the problems, of which a cribbing collar certainly doesn't do, rather than just the symptoms. After all, none of us would want our horses to suffer, would we? Physically preventing a horse from windsucking/cribbing is simply not an answer.

xx

[Lupa]

Before I got Hunter the previous owner tried a miracle collar on him and he just went straight and laid down! So that quickly came off. I refuse to put another of them on him but I use the metal windsucking collar on my boy (I put vet wrap around the metal bit so it doesnt get too hot). It is mainly on there so people dont whine at me about it and before I had to have it on him otherwise I wouldnt have been allowed to have my horse at that agistment center. The last two places he has been at they have realised that if he is out in a nice green paddock he doesnt care about windsucking so he hasnt had the collar on him in a while and he is a fat as a pig!

[entreat]

I completely agree with Chev, MissFliss and KarinUS (in fact - karin was my inspiration to study my own horses behaviour to find his triggers).

Many horses will have a trigger, be it psychological, or physical.

For a physical instance - grain will irritate a sensitive stomach. My horse will WS after eating grain. That's a certainty! Bread is another trigger, and occasionally carrots (on an empty stomach, but ok after hay). Mouse's diet is entirely processed grains, no bread, and only occasional carrots.

For psychological - My horse moved close to 2000miles when I bought him. The move was very stressful as his whole diet and routine was interrupted. He WS'd like mad for the first couple of months. This abated to about 3% after he settled into the routine of our yard. Like your horse, he also would WS when being tacked up, or if he was left waiting tacked up (while I was gas-bagging to friends!).

It's important for your horse to have as much access to hay/grass as possible. In Kalgoorlie, there's no grass, so I make do by upto half a bale of hay a day. Equally as important is turn out time. There's not a lot available for me due to my work roster, but he gets some. Initially, he was out all day, every day, and I think that helped him settle.

Now, he only WS's a teeny bit. I haven't seen him do it at all in the last 4 months, but I suspect he does it a little after breakfast. I think he will always do it, but I think I have him at the best I can hope for at the moment.

If you are worried about his condition, I would use a collar. (DO NOT use the electo-shock one that is available in australia! it is cruel and hugely prone to intentional and unintentional mis-use!) But I think the best course of action is to observe him and watch for routines and triggers. You never know - you may watch him do more interesting things than just sucking air! ;)