Keeping a Lazy Horse in Gait

[NoviceNic]

I am going to give you a bit of background history here to help with any advise you may all have. I bought Captain from a riding school 14 months ago. At first I couldn't get him out of walk. :mad: Then as my confidence grew so did Captains enthusiasm to try for me. I get the feeling he hates the menage as he knows he is going to be schooled. He isn't naughty. But it takes me all my energy to keep him going one full circle of the menage in canter. I use my legs constantly. Not full kicks but have really come on with my squeezes. But still I can't keep him going. He stops when he wants to so when I feel him slow down I use my legs shout the gait I am in and growl. If he doesn't keep going I give him a smack with the whip. But no matter how much I keep practising this he stills goes down a gait. My riding instructor has ridden him and now understands why I struggle to improve on technique when I am using all my energy to keep him going. I have recently given him a week off riding and am feeding him hard feed. I have to admit he has got more life in him but he still slows down when he wants to. Sorry about the essay just wondered if there was anything more I can do?

[smaggi]

Cisco is a lazy horse too. He used to hate doing arena work until I started adding some variety. Now I work him sometimes in the arena, but other times I will add cones, trotting poles, a wooden bridge, and we also trail ride too. As long as I keep some variety in his workouts he doesn't mind working.

I don't know if this will help your horse, but it made a huge difference in my horse's attitude.

[alliecatalex]

I ride a lazy horse, but now he does whatever I ask him to do, and does it great! I just worked with him a lot, I wear dull spurs which help a lot, so that way he can feel the pressure and moves forward when I ask him. I also had to use a crop, but now I dont with him. If I were you, I would ask to be lunged on him, that way you have the help of another person to get him going until he knows what you are asking from him. As soon as he slows down, use the crop on him, when he keeps going like you have asked him, let him know by telling him "good boy"

[arabianbaby]

do i ever know how you feel. mine is just the same. it's been 8 months i've had him and we went from refusing to walk, to trot, to bucking when asked to canter to doing lovely jumping courses. i agree with the variety. i think smokey is just bored silly of schooling... and really needs to find a purpose to what we are doing. going for hacks and jumping really helped. hopefully you can find a way to "wake" yours up. it's so frustrating still on days where smokey is lazy but when he feels like it he will buck liike a 2yr old and jump over anything in the ring (including the mounting block :P) and it makes up for all the off days.
oh. and as for telling him he's a "good boy"... no offense but smokey thinks good boy means stop immediately and wait for a pat. not always the best approach with a lazy horse.

[NoviceNic]

I do try to encorporate a lot of variety. Lots of serpentines and figures of 8. Trotting poles and jumps. Now the only thing that wakes him up is when he see the jumps set up. Then I have to put in a lot of half halts. :rolleyes: Someone else said about dull spurs. But to be honest with you I feel mean using a whip. I only have to smack him once and he throws a buck in to say "Ouch".

[notpoodle]

mine can be like that sometimes, too :rolleyes: she wakes after a couple of canters though. dont feel bad about using the whip for a quick tap behind the leg, it wont kill him (and no i dont mean a beating, of course!). it sounds like a bit of pain though if he has learned to dodge the whip by bucking :rolleyes:

julia
x

[smaggi]

oh. and as for telling him he's a "good boy"... no offense but smokey thinks good boy means stop immediately and wait for a pat. not always the best approach with a lazy horse.

Are you sure that we aren't riding the same horse. Cisco also thinks that "good boy" means stop immediately. If I'm at the trot or canter I don't say it. I can talk at the walk, but not at any other gait.

[cazrider]

Novicenic, this sounds so like Sennie as well. I am reading the replies with real interest. On his own he is the same out on the farm, ten strides of canter and he's back in trot. Forward going and fun in walk and trot, but just doesn't like cantering much. A different kettle of fish if he's with another horse though. He comes alive in canter then. ;)

I so agree with you about the spurs. A friend rode Sennie once in them, and I just couldn't stand to watch her. To be honest she struggled in canter as well.

Arabianbaby, you give us a lot of hope. :rolleyes:

[pedantic]

Glad it's not just me, 3/4 of an hour in the school with Polo and I am drenched in sweat heart pounding and puffing panting, if it's warm weather I just wear my body protecter next to my skin to try and keep cool, got my jods on of course ;) if I get him to canter a full circle I am doing well, this is normally with his head down most of the time, 5 strides colllected is my best, problem is if i do this on say a monday, I am nakered for the rest of the week as everything aches :(
I try to make things intersting for him by putting road cones down the middle and weaving in and out plus some jumps, it definately helps with his enthusiasm rather than round and round.
Problem now we have no school at present while a new one is built so it will be back to square one fitness wise when it's finished.
Best tip is vary things as much as possible.

[Peace]

Does he stay in gait out hacking? I seem to remember you saying Captain can be pretty forward-going out on hacks, right?

You may remember that Bram started pitching absolute fits in the school almost a year ago. I still don't know if it has to do with arthritis making it uncomfortable to go around in circles (even big ones) or if, being an ex-schoolhorse himself, Bram just finally reached the end of his patience with it. Anyway, I don't have much helpful advice. My solution was to just stop schooling - in a ring, anyway. :o

Do you think there might be some physical/psychological cause for his behavior? Because if I remember your posts about hacking him out correctly, Captain didn't seem like a lazy horse. :)

[NoviceNic]

Oh yes Peace. Captain is a different horse on hacks. More forward going but still stops cantering when he wants to. More nappy on solo hacks to be honest which I am desperately trying to keep up but I have lost my confidence a bit there.

I was wondering about the psychological thing as he is an ex riding school cob. So maybe they only did one full circle before dropping a gait??

I have also started to hard feed hima dn given him a couple of weeks off. He has perked up quite a bit in the school just hope he doesn't perk up on solo hacks. :eek:

Pedantic - That reminds me of you. Riding with all your energy and being more sweaty than the horse. Bless my OH he has gone out and bought me a Champion Vent air hat so I dont come off dripping like a tap. :p

[mellissa]

It is true that your little chap has probably seen more of the arena that he has had dinners!!!

The situation has probably arisen that lots of novice riders have ridden him round the ring, kicking and hauling. Over time, the horse's sides will desensitize- the intercostal (ribs) nerve is situated in this area. Furthermore, he will probably have a short enthusiam span.

You have a few options. You mention you have started to give him hard feed. Always remember to introduce and change a horse's diet gradually, as the bacteria in the caecum (part of the intestines) need to adjust to break down fibrous matter. Failure to do this can result in toxic gases and therefore gaseous colic. Increased fitness and energy will certainly help, but remember the limitations of his breed. For example, an old horse of mine was a TB and very excitable in all situations- no matter what he was fed and how unfit he was. My current belgian warmblood horse is placid but bolshy, and is fed high quantities as he is in hard work.

You could undertake the project of retraining him. You mention you do not like whips or spurs, but you need to train your horse to respond to the lightest aid. Constant nagging with the leg will deaden his response, his falling back to trot is because of your inability to maintain the canter. You can retrain any horse to be more responsive- gentle squeeze with both legs= trot, inside leg & outside leg back = canter. More pressure on rein or leg on either side= lateral movements and so on. If at any time the horse ignores the aid it is then backed up by the whip or spur. In time improvement should be made, but you must be very clear and concise in your application.

You can also retrain with the voice (unless you want to compete in dressage), and use free schooling and lungeing in exactly the same method we use when training youngsters. They learn walk, trot, canter etc, then have the same words spoken whilst mounted and they learn to associate with the aids. If your horse breaks down a gait and you have not asked for it, use the voice and back up with the lunge whip to correct.

Over time your horse should get fitter and more responsive but you have to work on it every day, and adjust feed as necessary.

Hope this helps

Mellissa

[L34NN3]

Unfortunately a lazy horse will always be a lazy horse and the only way to deal with it is to keep his attention as everyone else has mentioned...

I used to ride a highland who was slow as anything when hacking or scholling but ride him in the field and he was a different horse - it was almost like play time!

You say you feel mean about using your whip. Just try this: Use the amount of pressure you use to push you horse on on your own ribs (be honest - if you kick then punch yourself...) then give yourself one smack on the leg with you whip. Yes the whip hurts but its over with straight away. The whole leg thing is at least annoying and at most far more painful than the whip...

As mentioned before lunging works wonders. Lunge your horse yourself and get him really listening to your voice. You can then transfer this to when you ride. Him being lunged when you ride should also help loads too.

Just persevere and you will get there eventually.

[arabianbaby]

novicenic one thing i was really focusing on today that helped lots and may help you... i had always used inside leg for impulsion. my old instructor who i just had out told me outside leg for impulsion and to MAKE SURE i wasnt' blocking forward movement with the outside rein at all...even (especially) if we were falling in on the circle. by engaging his outside rear leg and allowing/keeping his inside shoulder was straight and not dropping made SUCH a difference.
i must say also with the spurs/whip if you use them correctly i think they are much better than constant squeezing/kicking. he'd only need a poke or two/ride and after about a month i got rid of them altogether and he was so responsive. if there is always a progression of asks before using spurs/crop it doesn't take them long to figure out it's easier to go nicely. :) good luck with him.

[twinkle11]

my horse was exsatly the same

make a little arena in the field and school him in there not for to long when he is good take him for a nice hack

if he is sensible do lots of canter this might help with fitness and he might injoy it also go out with friends you need to so him riding is fun

im sure the scholling in the field should help it def did with my mare

hope everything turn out well :)

[NoviceNic]

Blimey that is a lot of info to take in. Will have a go though. I took him out on a hack today. In company. He was a little on his toes for him but to be honest I cant blame him. The companion hack had a mate at home neighing and trying to get out of his field. So companion wasnt too settled.

[tb_rider]

My mare is Lazy too. except she never wants to trot, and when we get to the canter we don't want to stop. and my trainers horse is like yours she won't stay in the canter. so what i do is every other stride i cluck or make that kissing sound to her, if she still is slowing I give a kick and a smack on the shoulder with my hand. Although dull spurs might not be a bad idea.

[NoviceNic]

Blimey crikey cant tell you how much umph he has at the moment. He is on hard feed, ad lib hay and only ridden about 2x a week. Had a bad mood week so wasnt in to riding much. He flew round the menage today with me. :D Then a 13yo got on and he wouldn't budge out of walk. :p

[Tootsie4U]

Make your life easier: Stop the constant squeezing. The horse should be working for you, you shouldnt be finishing the lesson more tired than the horse.

Ask then tell. Give him one chance to do as you ask and if he doesn't comply, then you *tell* him to do as you ask.

Ever hear the phrase 'dull to the leg'? yepper. Its not that he's lazy, he just doesn't see the point. He prooves to you that he isnt lazy out on hacks. Don't let him fool you into using that crutch.

Ask then tell.

[sweuzo]

i have found that the lazy school horses i ride come out of themselves and wake up ALOT once they've had a good warm up with plenty of transitions, cirlces etc. almost seems like different horses at times.

[NoviceNic]

Tootsie - How do you mean by ask him once and then TELL him. Obviously I used to let him get away with being lazy in the menage but now my confidence is up I am direct with the leg and using the whip quick for a follow up if he doesnt do what I am asking. He does give a swish of the tail or a buck if i use the whip. I only smack him once not constant..

[Tootsie4U]

A horse should (well, a well trained horse should...) transition to a gait and remain in that gait until you cue him to do otherwise via reins, leg, weight or balance. No ifs ands or buts.

Your horse has become *desensitized* to your cues. You just need to *sensitize* him.

Since you're already using a crop try this. Ask for the trot. If you get it - fine, let him be. If you dont get it, tell him to trot by squeezing again and giving him a sharp tap on his barrel by your leg. When he goes into trot thank him by letting him be. If during the trot he begins to slow, tap his rear end (on the top right behind the cantle) with the crop. You dont want to use your leg again this time because thats what he's used to and he'll just ignore it. You asked him to trot in the begining and now its his *responsibility* to keep trotting until you ask him to do otherwise.

Thats an important key. You gotta look at it like he has a responsibility just like you do. An equal partnership; you wont nag him about his work (your responsibility) and he'll do as he's asked (his responsibility). And as long as you're fair about your expectations, he'll learn whats expected of him.

[NoviceNic]

Thank you for that explanation Tootsie. I took him into the menage without the whip yesterday. He did try to slow but I wouldnt let him. He was quite up beat considering I didnt have the whip (wind might of been a factor). But then I kept the session short and sweet. Loads of trot, walk transistions along with serpentines, figure of eights and 20 m circles.

[Pickles]

I think I have the same sort of horse, but he is only five and had only been ridden by decent riders before I got my hands on him!

I think you should rethink your schedule, maybe he will be perkier in the arena if he knows he will get a hack afterwards and won't have to be in the school for too long.

Also whether on a hack or in the arena, you should try to establish some disipline. If he thinks he can decide when to slow down it will make your job harder.

I would include lots of transactions into your work, if he breaks into trot after 10 strides then begin by asking for 5 and telling him to go back to trot. This way he is doing what you say and in time he will learn to listen to you rather than resenting the fact that you are always asking him for more.

I would also pick up a schooling whip, if you don't use one now you may find he reacts to you just holding it or the smallest of flicks, and it is better to tap once than nag with the leg continually.

Hope you manage to get some improvement out of him, but he will probably always be on the slow side, some horses just are :rolleyes:

[NoviceNic]

Rode Captain yesterday and tried to concentrate on not squeezing constantly with my leg. Harder than I thought. My legs seem to squeeze without my brain telling them too. I guess that old habits die hard. tried Tootsie's ideas and only needed to use the whip once. Captain gave an almightly buck. He does make me laugh in hysterics. :D I used to just freeze when they started to buck but I guess many lessons with supposed beginner riding school ponies has helped. :p

[horsemad]

I understand your problem well :rolleyes: My horse is really hard work in the school - and I know that it is nothing to do with lack of energy on her part - she just gets bored with all that schooling stuff. An example....had a short loose schooling session with her on Tuesday night - I was just going to get her to trot around the school for 5 minutes or so. Only Cindy had other ideas - she took off like a demented demon, bucking, leaping about, flat out gallop (she even weaved in and out of cones at a fast canter - what a funny girl!!) So, plenty of energy there. :)

Then I rode her in the indoor school last night - and I had to hassle her every stride to get her to move. Unfortunately she doesn't even respect the whip - so I can give her a sharp tap and she practically ignores it! Strangely enough, threatening her with the whip seems to have as much effect as actually tapping her with it :rolleyes: So I resorted to cantering around with the reins in one hand and my stick dangling down beside me! Not very conventional, and probably looks awful, but at least it worked - she stayed in canter without me having to keep pushing her on.

I really don't know how to motivate a bored horse though - other than the usual things of trying to vary the routine and keep the sessions short and focussed. All sounds very good in theory, but it still doesn't work with Cindy if she really isn't in the mood.

I'm even thinking of taking my girl for a canter in a field to give her a bit of fun. This is something I have avoided in the past because she can get excited and silly in that sort of situation. And unfortunately, when Cindy gets excited, I get scared! But then I always make her do the boring stuff, so maybe I should let her do something she's interested in for a change......as long as my nerves hold out!!

[macinac]

Hmm.. anyone want to help? My friend and I just recently got hold of a 5-yr-old black Quarter Horse called Reggie. He is quite a lazy horse, and doesn't have too much riding experience or any of the normal training abilities of a normal 5 year old. We just started working him slowly, working on grooming and lunging at a walk and trot. However, he is quite lazy in anything he does. It takes a lot of encouragement to get him to even trot, or stay in a trot, when lunging. We're going to try and do some more excercises with him in the next weeks, but any ideas or suggestions are more than welcome! Thanks! :)