riding position help.. with pics

[arabianbaby]

this is the first time i've had pictures specifically focused on my horrible riding. if anyone has any tips to help i'd love it. clearly the "chair" position is a huge issue. and toes pointed out. but also i think i'm collapsing in my right hip which concerns me the most. i cant' seem to bend my left leg around the horse so i think i correct this by pushing my left leg down and tipping right. i really want to fix this so the more input the better. i think this also leads to my right arm pushing forward. i know my hands are low.. my little monster likes to throw his nose up in the air so that's mostly trying to correct him. i also have one jumping picture that i'd love opinions on. it doesnt' look that awful to me.
thanks. :)
also... my horse looks like he's really leaning in the one picture. don't know if he's that unbalanced or if it's due to me?

last thing.. i'm sure i'm still of balance but i had to add the one picture which i think just looks so peaceful and calm. :) sorry this was so long.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b56/bunny11111111/th_01170011.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b56/bunny11111111/th_01170018.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b56/bunny11111111/th_TammyandSmokeyfull.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b56/bunny11111111/th_01170004.jpg

[jacstar]

Its not that bad :)

Did you know that nearly every rider is not riding perfectly straight?
weather they are aware of it or not.

A good way to tell is if you look at the saddle blanket after you have ridden
(clean before you ride of course)

you can tell by the hair and dirt/sweat patterns. say is the left side is the same as the right you are riding straight but if there is a darker pattern visible then you are riding to one side.

Your hands in the first photo is what i used to do out of habit, i used to have them too far down and then wonder why my horse wont collect :rolleyes:

[arabianbaby]

i know most people may not be totally even. but i think i'm WAAAAAY off. i can tell the most by when i ride bareback. i have a ton of hair on my right leg... almost none on my left. sicne then i thing trying to compensate has caused this new problem of leaning to my left leg.
and i know my hands are low. maybe i'm doing the wrong thing but you can also see in that pic he likes to poke his nose up to the sky. so i tend to keep my hands low to compensate for that.

[jacstar]

Have you tried bowen therapy i had bowen on my horse 6 months ago when she fell in a paddock and the lasy took a look at me and said one leg is longer than the other(my hip was out)
so she poked an prodded and i was on my way

It was so weird that i got her out for my horse (which healed my horse in one session) but ended up being about me also.

My instructor used to get me to be on a loose rein(not to loose, slight contact) and really push with my seat so my horse is going forward, the horse cant stick its nose up if its going forward and then you'll find the horse dropping his/her head. :)

you two look like your having fun though :) :) :)

[Shiny McShine]

Hi,

It can be really hard to correct your own crookedness. I am personally very crooked, except I collapes the left hip. What I would recommend though is either having a skilled eye, eg. good instructor watch your riding on a regular basis if possible, and have a look at Sally Swift's "Centred Riding" books, they give some really useful exercises to help you visualise sitting straighter.

Your position actually looks like the "fork seat" to me, the chair seat is where you sit right back on your buttocks, with your legs out in front. You'd probably benefit from riding without stirrups, preferably on the lunge, so that you can practice sitting upright (leaning back a little in your case), and opening your hips so that your knee stretches down and back. It will also help you to relax your seat.

In the second picture at walk you and horse look great although you could benefit from sitting up (back) a bit more. While your horse is not thoroughly together in either of the first two pictures he looks better in this one because he is using his hindlegs actively, which will help him to use his back and eventually relax and use his neck and accept your contact better.

In the first picture both of you look tense. You are bracing against each other. I would try to avoid holding on to his mouth as much as possible, even with a low hand position. Holding his mouth only makes him tense up his neck and back more, which will not encourage him to accept the contact. The more you can ride him as you are in picture two the better I would imagine.

Hope this is helpful. He looks really lovely, and you seem to have a very sound position looking at your second picture, it just needs a bit of work perhaps in trot and when your horse is fighting you.

Good luck with it,
Regards,
Shiny.

[arabianbaby]

thanks for the help so far... shiny what is a fork seat? and how exactly do i fix it? :P and what is bowen therapy? i'm sure i've heard of it but don't know if anyone practices in canada?
also i forgot to add the canter one where he is leaning. and i'll add another trot one too. and yes he is amazingly lovely when he wants to be. :)
http://photobucket.com/albums/b56/bunny11111111/th_01170023.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b56/bunny11111111/th_01170020.jpg

[Cheko]

Although you say your horse pokes his nose, you need to sit up straight and on your seat bones. By doing this, you will have a much stronger seat than if you sit on your fork, which is putting it politely, sitting almost on your pubic bone!!! although you give a reason for holding your hands low, they should be held about about 4 inches higher with your elbow bent. When your hands are held low with straight arms, there is no leverage at all from your elbow and there needs to be some room for movement. Although the horse may be strong, if you have a good deep seat and are riding from leg to hand, you should be able to hold a strong horse, by a little give and take. Try squeezing your fingers on the reins Your horse is very pretty.

[LMS]

You're from Canada? Where exactly?
I have a client that offers Bowen, Reiki and all that good stuff, near Ottawa. Unfortunatly she doesn't have a computer (so you wouldn't be able to communicate via email).

You're horse is showing you that he probably has an issue with his back or that he's really sensitive about something you're doing up there.
Inverting himself is a way to evade you.

When you are on the ground; in which frame is your horse? Is he inverted or is he using his topline (meaning a nice long neck using the top of it and his back)?
How independant is your seat? Is your hip/lower back area a bit stiff?
How about your thighs? Are you finding yourself gripping a bit?

I agree that your hands/arms seem hard. Are you tense in your shoulders?

Take deep breaths; in: shrug your shoulder & scrunch your face. Out: relax your face & shoulders and roll them backwards.

When you hold the reins pretend you're casually holding a tray of goodies or cups filled with liquids. When you use your reins, the action comes from the shoulder and your elbows open & close as needed. When you give a rein aid: you also start by squeezing your reins (as if they were stress balls) and the action of pulling is front to back towards your hip.

Think about your horse making your arm move (the action of his head & neck at the walk).

I ride with my left side slightly forward, which in turn makes me lose my stirrup on that side. An instructor with a really keen eye will notice this and frequently reposition me. When I'm positioned symmetrically, it makes me feel really off & unstable. It takes time to train your brain & body to know & keep the proper "symmetrical" position.
My body was adjusting to this and then she left for 3 years and of course I went back to my old ways. She saw me ride a couple of weeks ago & picked it up right away. I really felt sheepish!

LMS
PS Is there any way to make your pics bigger?

[kedwards]

Just to drive home the rein issue, keep in mind that the bit works effectively in the horse's mouth only when there is a straight line from your elbow to his head. If the horse raises his head above the bit, you actually want to raise your hands, not lower them, in order to be effective (incidentally, this is part of the whole point of a running martingale, which serves to change the direction of rein pressure when the horse raises his head so he can't get above the action of the bit). Lowering your hands when the horse raises his head just ensures that the horse is above the bit and puts your hands in a weak position where they cannot work in conjunction with your seat and back.

The pictures are very small and the black-on-black blends, so it's hard to see exactly what's happening with your seat, but it looks like you could allow your knees to relax and drop a little more. This might help to keep your leg under you and your toes more forward, but it's hard for me to really see from the pics.

[arabianbaby]

eeeek. of course whenever i try to work on one problem (my legs) other problems reappear. thanks for all the advice so far. must say i'm getting even more confused. :P

first off about his evading me... he has 3 vets, 2 chiros and a physio and none of them think he is in any pain from his back/saddle. also teeth are fine. i think he has had poorly fitted tack most of his life. he is quite swayback (although it's improved/lifted TONS since i got him last year)... he is MUCH better when i ride him bareback. so i think it's a learned habit from previous discomfort.

as for my seat i used to sit right back on my seatbones... but with my toes pointed STRAIGHT out. i rode bareback most of the summer and often without reins so i think my balance is ok. now my instructor told me toes in needs to come from the hip so to sit forward like that. :S so i have been and also squeezing more with my thighs as she told me to do in order to get my toes pointed in. it feels very awkward to me honestly feels like it's pushing my knees in but it does seem the only way to point my toes out less. my mom says she thinks i may not be "built" properly for riding and even as a baby i walked with my toes pointed out. argh.

anyway i'm going riding now so i'll work on my hands/elbows again. that was also at the advice of an instructor who told me low/wide hands would help him relax.

here is the link to see the piccies full size if that helps. :)
http://photobucket.com/albums/b56/bunny11111111/

oh... and i live in vancouver so a tad far from ottawa.

[jacstar]

How did you go with your riding??????
I 'm about to do the same :)

Try loosening your reins alittle and you'll find it will all come together
(so you have light contact)
if you dont allowe your horse to relax forward he wont let go of his back
hence the tence look

for your toes try not to think about your toes as the problem, your position of your toes will be the result of how the rest of the body is sitting.
if your head is high looking where you are going next and your shoulders are back, push our back up but your legs/hips down you'll find that your toes wont stick out as much. :) and your heels will be down without any cramps

by rights(in a perfect world) you should be able to ride with no contact from the reins
its all seat.

to move the horse forward legs and seat to stop the horse legs and seat (reins are the last on the list, or you'll end up with alsorts of hassles)
for your horse to work on the bit it has to give his/her back
by the rider using seat and legs

happy riding :) :) :)

[Dizzy]

We can't look at the bigger photos as we don't have the password.

[jumper-4-joy]

Elbows in!

[Shiny McShine]

The fork seat is where more weight is on your thighs and groin and your pelvis is rolled forward at the top. In most of your pictures if you were to draw a line from your seat bone up through your hip bone, the line would lean forward. Ideally it should sit up vertically, and in a chair seat it would angle backwards.

I already gave some suggestions to improve the fork seat, such as work on the lunge where you can practice relaxing your hips and stretching your leg from the knee, as well as stretching up taller through your body, but the best thing by far would be to have someone watching your riding occassionally, and catching you every time you tip your pelvis and upper body forward!

As for your toes pointing out, I always find the best way to correct this is not to think about pointing your toes in, but concentrate on dropping your heel and turning it out - which automatically points your toe in, but without tensing the rest of your leg. Perhaps you might find that works for you.

Good luck with it all.

[arabianbaby]

thanks so much all of you.

it all really helps... even if it's just to make me think about other things that i haven't been focussing on with my riding. what's REALLY funny is 20 yrs ago i thought i knew how to ride. i learn more and more every day since i've been back how clueless i was (and still am).

like i said my instructor had told me my toes pointing ahead and heel back (under hip) would come from my hip which led me to sit forward like that. i'm amazed it's only been a week and now i'm having a hard time sitting back on my seatbones. i think mostly since i'm still trying to keep my heels back and toes in. i can't seem to do it while back on my seatbones. this is where is feel really lost still.

it's MUCH easier to practise this on my daughter's horse who is so nice to ride.. so i've been stealing her a bit. :) smokey is really hard to get/keep moving so i think having to jab my heels at him for the past 8 months probably led to a lot of these probs too. he is just getting back from 6 weeks off due to injuries so back to being stubborn. hopefully soon he'll be more resonsive so i can pay attention to myself instead of him so much.

the hands, elbows and reins i have taken your guys advice. as well as the sititng up straight. that helps the most. i think i've also been looking down lots to look at my feet/legs so sitting up makes me feel much more balanced. thanks. :)

woo. what a rant. sorry!

anyhow.. if anyone wants to see the bigger pics my password is 789789.

also is bowen therapy similar to shiatsu? seems like it in theory and i have been for one treatment and hope more soon. i don't know if it can fix my being so one sided/twisted though.

[CD2387]

I've always been told to ride without my hands (so to speak). Imagine that your arm is an extension of the rein to your elbow and pull from your elbow. (your elbows are your new "hands")
That's helped me immensely with my hand position and getting a horse on the bit.
Hope it helps.

[Cheeky]

EEp! You ride without a helmet?? Regularly?? Ok ..

Uh, for your riding, relax :) Sit back and relax in the canter .. enjoy the movement. Keep your hands down but still up :p What i did when I was learning the trot (yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaars ago) was to pretend that there was a plank of (floating lol) wood right above the withers. I would then "push" so I could rise - now my hands are stuck there :) Luckily i was taught where to put my hands so we are all good :p

Lovely horse!!

[PunkRockPony]

if you push your leg back from the top a little more so they are pointing towards the ground (i dunno how to expain it any better...) and push the lower leg back and the heels down a bit more that might help with the 'chair' position... also prehaps some stirrupless work might help losen your legs and create a better seat. Thats how i've been working on my 'chair' like seat though and it is helping... if you relax into the saddle while doing stirrupless that does actually help you keep well balanced and its also great for you seat! :D

[arabianbaby]

^^^ funny thing my instructor has told me to stop riding bareback as that's almost all i did all summer and has caused my legs to come forward since i'm TOO relaxed.

anyway thanks for all the advice. i've stopped focusing on my toes and leg position and just going back to relaxing a bit and focusing on staying in balance with my horse things are going MUCH better. and he's getting more responsive again! woohoo.

i'll try to start paying attention to overall position rather than one part at a time and get more pics in the next couple of weeks. :)

[herbyhorse]

Get rid of those stirrups. lift your legs over the front of the saddle flaps and find your seat bones. Where are they pointing? forward, backwards (would bet money) or upright. make them upright!

Lift your legs up and back still retaining your seat bones firmly connected to your saddle.

How does that feel? like your leaning backwards? Good, that will pass and begin to feel normal and get the weight off the front of your leg.

Then practice moving, while keeping those seat bones connected, they can move forward and backwards but you must keep keep the weight between left and right equal (on stright lines anyhoo). the movement comes from the lumbar spine.



and achiveing a balanced horse in an outline is not obtained by hanging tightly onto the reins as this will make you stiff which inturn will make your horse hollow and therefore block any movement from the hind. Please relax and let go, the aim is to get the back to work into the hands not the hands to net anything that might be coming through.

Hope this helps, but i really think your instructor should be able to help you.

HH