Piaffe.....HELP!

[Wally]

I was mucking about in the school tonight with my tiny friend Ljóssie. We had been doing lots of collection to get tölt a bit better. As I came out of a reinback he offered some piaffe steps. This took me aback as he is usually so lateral in his work and any diagonal stuff he finds hard.

Now I'm really pleased, how do I cultivate this? Bearing in mind he is a 5 gaited Icelandic so it may never happen again:D

Is he ready do do such collected stuff? He cannot do a half pass, shoulder in, leg yeild he can do.

[Wally]

Oh heck...he did it agian today!

[ros]

Sounds like HE thinks he's ready, Wally! Maybe this is going to be his party piece?

[aniukas]

honestly, i don't think he's ready for "that" stuff. if he can't do half-pass and/or shoulder-in, flying chages and all that stuff, he's not physicaly and mentaly ready for piaffe. some collection should be fine as he moves up in his training. BUT you CAN'T skip to the most complicated from the lower levels, unless you're willing to sacrifice your horse's soundness, which obviously you don't.:) a horse has to be very well trained and very athletic to perform grand prix moves. it is possible that maybe one day you two willl make it to grand prix tho. if i were you, i'd work on the basics for now and take my time teaching him the less complicated moves (from the leg yield on) and make sure that he muscles up correctly for the more streneous work. being consistent is a key to success, and i'm SURE you know it!:)
BTW, some horses would passage or piaffe when fresh or frigtened and that's WAY different from offering these moves on command.
just my two cents .........:D
have fun with your boy!

[Wally]

You mis read my message, He can do some very nice shoulder in, Legyeild and some passable flying changes! He is collected enough to do some very good slow tölt on a loose rein. He's not a baby...he's 13 or is he 14 now? I forget!

This is something I have never asked an Icelandic to do as trot is not his strongsets gait, I was amazed that he offered it at all! He can do shoulder in in more gaits than normal horses ie. walk, trot, tölt and canter. I have never asked for half pass as I have always considered it beyond me and him...maybe I should?

[floppy]

so are we going to see you in the next olympics wally? competing against those big hanoverians etc with your little icelandic :D

[Maria]

Wally

How exciting. I work on the basis that you celebrate when moves like this are offered - don't quash them because they happen out of the normal sequence.

I'm no expert, but common sense seems to say, don' t try to get too much piaffe too often, and make sure that it's not being used as an evasion.

Great stuff!

Maria

[Heather]

In the Iberian countries, horses are routinely taught piaffe in hand, often before they start work under saddle!

I have watched four year olds in Germany who offer passage and the rider will play with it and see what they have to offer, although it will not be perfected until much later. My German trainer, when my Arabian stallion offered piaffe before he was confirmed in the lateral work, told me to work on it as the fact that it helped him to engage his hindquarters and 'sit' more behind, could only help the rest of his work.

I don't agree with Aniukas that the piaffe that a fresh horse will sometimes offer is actually much different to the piaffe offered in the early stages of training. I have ridden several horses who offered a far better piaffe when excited than most of the piaffe you see in Grand Prix competition these days! The Iberian breeds find it incredibly easy- it is after all, only trot on the spot!

As Maria says, don't let him use it as an evasion but at his age, experimenting with it and using it as a base for other transitions won't do any harm.

Heather

[aniukas]

oh gee! my post was sooo outta place!:eek: i'm sorry wally... i get a bit carried away sometimes:D (anyway you did say that he couldn't do shoulder-in etc.. Quote:"He cannot do a half pass, shoulder in, leg yeild he can do." it must have been a typing error). anyway, sorry about my comments - i hope i'm forgiven :(

[Wally]

Thanks all for the input.

Ljóssie is a mega nervy type, I don't think he could do piaffe in hand as from what I've seen it involves touching his legs with a schooling whip, I've only just managed to let him accept me carrying on on his back, touching him with it is another matter. He nearly had a heart attack when I put over-reach boots on him once, I has 20 seconds to get them off before terminal meltdown! Since I'm not training him seriously for any sort of competition I'll play with him and see what happens.

Thanks, it may help his trot too.

[Silver1]

hello, just soikng around threads looking for something interesting and new...whats a Piaffe? How do you teach it to a horse? And how does he "offer" the piaffe steps? Just curious...

[kathrynd]

http://www.germandressage.com/PhotoGallery/Clients/pages/JenpiaffeMG0325.htm

Here is a link of a lady with her horse doing a piaffe, search under piaffe for more information.

[Wally]

Nope, Ljóssie and I don't look like that!

Back to the drawing board!:D

[kathrynd]

Suggestion:

Print the picture on the web site
Take picture to the horse
Show picture to the horse
Explain to the horse that this is what he should be doing
Viola!
That should do it.....:D

Oh if it were only that easy.

[Janey Painy]

Hmm. I don't know, but that horse looks quite tense to me. And the reins look very tight. It looks like if the rider were to give the reins, the horse wouldn't remain in piaffe, so isn't the horse just being pulled into it like a concertina?

[Janey Painy]

Now thats a decent piaffe. Note the slack reins :)

http://www.classicaldressage.com/images3/ol3.gif

[Wally]

Now, we have a telly in the indoor schol to show videos of folk on. We Video them and play it back to them.

The horses do watch it, I've had Fat Cob and Solo lined up watching Kalman de Jurenak vids. They watch, they may inwardly digest then they go off and do exactly what they were doing before!

I've even shown Hákon what World Championship tölt looks like!

[floppy]

hehe how funny but i think its good that you video tape people wally...my mum always use to video tape me in training when i use to figure skate and it helped enormously in improvin gmy technique etc

[Silver1]

ok, I see...a Piaffe is the horse lifting its legs real high?

[Janey Painy]

In simple terms (coz I'll mess up otherwise!) a piaffe is a trot on the spot. Well, very slowly moving forwards, so it looks like the horse is trotting (slower tempo though) but not going forward. This requires a load of collection. It's very difficult for the horse. I think there is a video clip of Nuno doing a bit of Piaffe on the web somewhere. I'll see what I can find... :)

[Janey Painy]

Try this:

Nuno Piaffer (http://www.equitazionesentimentale.it/)

Then click on Downloads at the bottom of the screen, and choose Piaffer. Enjoy! It's not very long, but as always, watching Nuno is an honour :D

[Wally]

Poetry, utter poetry!

Oh for that kind of ability!:)

[Sue Carnell]

Piaffe should be on the spot, the horse shouldn't take steps forward. I would imagine that in the Nuno Oliviera clips, the horse is in training and isn't yet established in his piaffe, so is permitted to move forward. Piaffe is basically a trot on the spot. In the pic on the german dressage page, it does appear that the horse is a little grounded in his piaffe, though it could be the moment of the picture. The horse should pick up his fore and hind feet in diagonal pairs and have lift and expression in piaffe, not just bob about barely lifting his feet off the ground.

Sue
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Wally]

I had a good look at all the vid. clips. Lovelly!

[Janey Painy]

Sue that's very interesting what you say about there being no forward steps. I was going to simply say "trot on the spot" but then I sat here and re captured all the images in my head of the top Dressage riders I've seen do it, and figured a little forward movement must be ok. I must say though, some piaffe's that I've seen on TV or Video were so awful that I guess I should have just discounted them! The horses lifted each leg completely out of time and only a few inches off the floor. The really worrying part is that on TV you only get to see the best of the bunch! :eek:

So, to clear things up, should there be absolutely no forward steps??? (except in the beginning when the horse is learning)

The clip of Nuno, well I think he isn't going as forward as we first might think..... if you look at where he is in the school, I think it's the shaky hand of the person filming that makes him look like he goes forward, coz right at the end it looks like he goes backwards!?!?

[Silver1]

that is really cool! The video is a bit blurry, but i can't complain, I've been offered jobs taping at horse shows!

Cool, so a Piaffe is a trot in place? That is AMAZING!!! Didn't think they could do that..

[floppy]

if you go to the same page as jainey painy mentioned and download the Philippe Karl - Piaffer-Levade one that will show you what a piaffe should look like....well the bit before the horse walks backwards and rears :D

[Janey Painy]

Yeah I know floppy! :) That's a lovely piaffe, and so smothe into the Levade... aahhhh :D

Who is Philippe Karl though? I'm sure I recognise the name, but I don't know much about him.

[Sue Carnell]

Yes, Janey, the horse should have no forward movement in the piaffe. Heather and I have been working on piaffe to passage with Fanta this week, so I should know. Lol. I've been told off for allowing him forward, when I should hold him with my seat. The best and most expressive piaffe, leading to the best passage, has been when he's absolutely on the spot, no forward at all in his piaffe. Chris Bartle and Wily Trout often demonstrated good examples of piaffe in competition and they're Brits too! So, if you do have any old video of competition, look out for those two. I agree with the comments on Phillipe Karl, it's a shame the horse steps backwards before the levade. I think Heather's Fanta shows immense potential for the same movement, if Heather teaches him it, as he really sits in his piaffe and could easily go from that to Levade. (well, easy is relative, lol)

Sue
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Janey Painy]

Thanx Sue. When Fanta learns to Levade :D can you put it on the new web site?!?!? :) Photo's or a video too!