Her back's sore again

[amandal]

:( Just expressing my depression

My mare has now had several instances of back pain. Saddle is professionally fitted and checked regularly, with the last time being about 5 weeks ago - the last time she was showing discomfort.

Went to mount her yesterday for my lesson, she's taught me to mount much better as she's a bit nervy when you get on (although with all the back pain it's not surprising). Using a block - had one foot in the stirrup and was just swinging the other one over when she took off, walk to gallop transition is very effective. I almost got the other leg over properly but as she turned in flight I came off, landing on the fence around the school. She bolted to one end, then leapt to the other end and stood there snorting and shaking. I am so glad I was wearing my bp as the last time I tried to use the school fence to dismount I cracked my ribs and this time it hardly hurt at all.

Thankfully my instructor was there, he admitted that he hadn't understood what I'd meant when I'd talked about her going into blind panic - he knew her before I bought her and had never seen anything like that at all. I went up to her in the corner of the school, she was a snorting, shaking nervous wreck. She relaxed as I patted her which almost reduced me to tears as she wouldn't let my instructor get near her. I went to get the lunge line in case it was freshness / new grass etc (grass is still coming through and she's in a new field).

Instructor made the beginning movements of mounting while I was away and apparently she was really nervous. I started to lunge her and she bucked going into canter which is a sure sign of her back being out. I trotted her on a bit and then asked for canter again, bucked again. I called her in and went to adjust her saddle as the pad was falling out of the back and she leapt sideways. I removed the saddle very slowly talking to her and lunged her for a bit on the other rein, bucking going into canter again. Decided to stop as it was obviously back pain and took her back to her stable. She was a bit calmer but not much. After instructor left we went for a walk around the fields and then I turned her out, she seemed fine walking about.

Instructor's given me the name of a back person he works with and once she's rung me back and arranged an appointment and we know what's wrong I'll get the saddle looked at again.

I'm just getting really worried, I did see her do this leap forward as someone mounts before I bought her but thought it was due to a pony biting her at the time. I'm worried about her health - if this is a recurrent problem what future does she have ? If she can have quality of life I'll keep her as long as it lasts but I've only had her a year and this problem does keep popping up.

She's 11 years old and was behaving like a baby, instructor said he couldn't understand why - he'd never seen her like this before. She does this when we're out hacking, when I cracked my ribs - she just seems to fly into a blind panic. She is difficult to fit with a very slight swayback. She's 15.2 ID/Conn. There's a lot of mystery about her past (the people i bought her from weren't at all forthcoming, she was on a selling livery), but they did say that if she didn't go they'd keep her in the riding school so she can't have been known for doing this then.

I'm just scared that it's going to be a permanent problem, I've had her saddle checked 4 times this year (since February) and we've had numerous visits from back people.

Schooling wise - I work on suppleness with her as she's very stiff on the right rein. We've also been doing some work on transitions, 3 weeks ago for the first time she was balanced, accepting the bit and it was like a dream riding her, she made me feel like I could ride. :D Last Tuesday I noticed that she was't as supple in the school as she had been but I just thought it was because the sand in the school hadn't been harrowed to make it smooth and it's deep. She was fine on other days - we didn't get the school to ourselves and she was a bit too interested in what others were doing but she was listening to me and went long and low and we had lovely balanced paces.

Whilst tacking her up on Sunday she was fine, she did her normal trick of lifting her legs for me to pick them out. Whilst untacking her after the lesson I couldn't lift any of her feet very easily. I watched her moving round the field - she didn't seem to be stiff at all, she can seem almost crippled with pain in the field when her pain is very bad.

I'm lucky in that we have some lovely hills to hack on and I've spent most weekends lately walking up and down the hills with her, she goes straight down the hills, she's got a lot fitter and has some shoulder definition at last. I'm just confused that if her peak performance was a few weeks ago wouldn't her back have gone then if the pain is due to her now working properly ?

So back lady will be out asap and I will be trying to quell my feelings of doom about her health. Back lady will be giving me exercises to do and will be working with my my instructor about the results and what schooling exercises he should be doing with me.

Sorry for the length of this, didn't mean it to be an epic.

[galadriel]

Sounds like there might be a deeper underlying problem than the back people have yet found, if this is a recurring problem.

[amandal]

I'm worried about that too, I had a vet check her when she had the problem initially and he said that there were no hip / pelvic problems - he was a specialist horse vet, rather than the cat vet they sent out to try and vaccinate her (she hates needles, wish I'd been there to see the chaos).

Gone to see her tonight. She's not herself and although she's now lifting her feet for me isn't happy about having them picked up further than about 1 inch off the ground.

Do I go with a physio or with the equine massage specialist my instructor recommended or with a chiropractor ? It's all so confusing. My gut reaction is to go the route suggested by my instructor, but what do people study to become equine massage specialists ?

[Supercali]

We had a horse a few years ago that went into a blind panic for no apparent reason. We had him for 3 years and he ran off and bucked my husband off too many times to mention. We had his saddle checked and restuffed many times but we got anoter respected saddler to take a look and he saw that the saddle hadn't been made properly and the panel was wider on one side - it was only after getting a new saddle that we realised that he hadn't bucked for a while, so it must have been the saddle after all.

I would get another saddler to check out the saddle but in the meantime your horse seems like he has some pain/damage in his back and maybe your vet can refer you to a Mctimoney Chiropractor.

Good luck.

[intouch]

I worked with a horse like this once, everyone thought it was a back problem. turned out he had a cracked molar which flared up sometimes and triggered the crazy fits. He had it removed and lived happily ever after. Just a thought.

[jacstar]

Nothng worse than knowing your horse is in pain but unsure what to do.

I had a similar prob with my TB 11yrs (not to your extent)
she would step side ways every time i would mount and i cant get a left lead canter, either can my instructor (so its not me :) )

anyhow i got the bowen theropist out, and massage lady and she is improving she now strikes off but cant mantain the canter left lead (right is fine)
so she is weak, on the right side.

at the moment i'm about to do the equine myofuntional course in dec
to help her out and wouldnt mind alittle extra cash on the side. :rolleyes:

in australia its 2 days a month for 8 months
and you have to do 30(?) hrs case study

if you run your fingers down the spine you can pin point where the pain is.
your horse will twitch, kick, tail swish, attept to bite

mine used to tail swish, stomp back foot and twitch
if its muscle twitching i would try a bowen/massage first

but there may be more to it than that

[galadriel]

turned out he had a cracked molar which flared up sometimes and triggered the crazy fits.

Interesting!

---

A massage therapist studies the horse's muscles, what they should feel like, how to detect issues within the muscles, and what to do to treat said issues. For a chronic and possibly hidden problem, I'd go with a massage therapist over a chiropractor. But if you've got access to one, I think I might start with a physio.

[amandal]

Thanks guys, the massage therapist is coming out on Saturday. She had her teeth checked just over a month ago (the last time she had back pain) and yes she always steps away when I'm getting on.

I'll have a chat with the woman on Saturday and have been also recommended a physio by a woman at the yard who also said I can ride her gelding twice a week if I want.

Fingers crossed.

[Est]

Good luck amandal. I'm going through exactly the same thing with mine - except I know his recurring back pain is due to spavin in both hocks which has led to a displaced pelvis and pain on his off side shoulder/wither area.

We got the same symptoms upon mounting as you, except he would start with some enormous "rodeo" bucks and then shoot off.

I've had a saddler, EDT, dental vet, two physios and a Bowen/shiatsu person out (following full lameness workup and vet approval), and he shows only temporary improvement of a few days. So the next plan of action is chiropractic and Tteam. If I see any great results with either of these I will let you know. I'm considering acupuncture too, but the nearest vet who does acupuncture to me is Leeds so the call-outs would be huge.

Interestingly, the people I bought him off said the same thing about keeping him for the school - would you mind PMing me who you bought yours from?

[hackedoff]

amandal I'm so sorry for your troubles but so glad you're ok! Next time someone takes the p*ss when I put a bp on to school, I'll think of you! I have not much to add to all the fab suggestions from the far more knowledgeable folk on the board. Good luck sweetie. ((((amandal)))))

[Jessey]

What a nightmare. My friends horse also showed these symptoms when he had a cracked tooth, short intermittant spells of good work with 'blind panic' behaviour in between. His back also kept getting sore (osteo was out every month or two to work it over) but this was where he was so tense beacause of the pain in his mouth, the tension was then showing when he pulled/overworked muscles because he was trying to carry himself to minimise the pain in the mouth. This horse had also been seen by an EDT but it was one of the very back teeth and the small crack got missed, it was only after a year when they were at a new yard and another EDT came out and really had a good poke round they found it, he had to be totally knocked out in hospital for it to be removed. He is now 100% and competes in eventing.

J x

[amandal]

Vet's now booked for tomorrow.

Thanks everyone, Est I've pm'd you.

This is so depressing, and I've been really concentrating on losing weight for her too. :(

[Lucy J]

have you had her feet and legs checked? my mare had a back problem which was triggered by bad hoof balance and the wrong type of shoeing. she is now remedially shod and is much better. just another line of thought.

[Tangle]

hope the vet & massage therapist make progress :). I know how wearing it is when everytime you think they're on the up something goes wrong again :(

Like Lucy's mare, Fifi had back problems partialy caused by a hoof imbalance and is now making progress. One thing that really helped her was physio under sedation. I'm not sure how many physio's do it and it doesn't come cheap (by the time you have the call out for vet & physio, plus assesment plus treatment plus sedative we were looking at £100+ per go) but it really does reach the parts other manipulations can't reach ;). Might be worth looking into if it keeps coming back....

[laylaw]

Hi I am an equinie bowen person. I was just browsing for livery yards and saw your message. Have you run your hands either side of the spine to identify areas of soreness? If so where abouts is the pain exactly? If it is behind where the saddle sits i.e. loins/lumbar area it could well be the kidneys that are not working correctly and causing this. If she is stiff on the right rein, it is probably the left kidney if it is this area.

From my experience chiros, vets and some phyios wont pick this up. I would go down the route of vet, chiro, dentist, muscle person, saddle. Saddle is last as the chiro and muscle person should check the saddle to see if it is causing pain.

If you get no joy from any of the above maybe try an equine iridologist. The eyes can pick up any skeletal misalignments, any major muscle trauma, internal problems such as kidneys as well as past traumas and illness. It is truly amazing yet so little is know about it.

Hope you find out your horses problems, it can be so frustrating as they do try to tell us but we can not understand so well sometimes.

[Mossy]

:( Just expressing my depression

My mare has now had several instances of back pain. Saddle is professionally fitted and checked regularly, with the last time being about 5 weeks ago - the last time she was showing discomfort.

Went to mount her yesterday for my lesson, she's taught me to mount much better as she's a bit nervy when you get on (although with all the back pain it's not surprising). Using a block - had one foot in the stirrup and was just swinging the other one over when she took off, walk to gallop transition is very effective. I almost got the other leg over properly but as she turned in flight I came off, landing on the fence around the school. She bolted to one end, then leapt to the other end and stood there snorting and shaking. I am so glad I was wearing my bp as the last time I tried to use the school fence to dismount I cracked my ribs and this time it hardly hurt at all.

Thankfully my instructor was there, he admitted that he hadn't understood what I'd meant when I'd talked about her going into blind panic - he knew her before I bought her and had never seen anything like that at all. I went up to her in the corner of the school, she was a snorting, shaking nervous wreck. She relaxed as I patted her which almost reduced me to tears as she wouldn't let my instructor get near her. I went to get the lunge line in case it was freshness / new grass etc (grass is still coming through and she's in a new field).

Instructor made the beginning movements of mounting while I was away and apparently she was really nervous. I started to lunge her and she bucked going into canter which is a sure sign of her back being out. I trotted her on a bit and then asked for canter again, bucked again. I called her in and went to adjust her saddle as the pad was falling out of the back and she leapt sideways. I removed the saddle very slowly talking to her and lunged her for a bit on the other rein, bucking going into canter again. Decided to stop as it was obviously back pain and took her back to her stable. She was a bit calmer but not much. After instructor left we went for a walk around the fields and then I turned her out, she seemed fine walking about.

Instructor's given me the name of a back person he works with and once she's rung me back and arranged an appointment and we know what's wrong I'll get the saddle looked at again.

I'm just getting really worried, I did see her do this leap forward as someone mounts before I bought her but thought it was due to a pony biting her at the time. I'm worried about her health - if this is a recurrent problem what future does she have ? If she can have quality of life I'll keep her as long as it lasts but I've only had her a year and this problem does keep popping up.

She's 11 years old and was behaving like a baby, instructor said he couldn't understand why - he'd never seen her like this before. She does this when we're out hacking, when I cracked my ribs - she just seems to fly into a blind panic. She is difficult to fit with a very slight swayback. She's 15.2 ID/Conn. There's a lot of mystery about her past (the people i bought her from weren't at all forthcoming, she was on a selling livery), but they did say that if she didn't go they'd keep her in the riding school so she can't have been known for doing this then.

I'm just scared that it's going to be a permanent problem, I've had her saddle checked 4 times this year (since February) and we've had numerous visits from back people.

Schooling wise - I work on suppleness with her as she's very stiff on the right rein. We've also been doing some work on transitions, 3 weeks ago for the first time she was balanced, accepting the bit and it was like a dream riding her, she made me feel like I could ride. :D Last Tuesday I noticed that she was't as supple in the school as she had been but I just thought it was because the sand in the school hadn't been harrowed to make it smooth and it's deep. She was fine on other days - we didn't get the school to ourselves and she was a bit too interested in what others were doing but she was listening to me and went long and low and we had lovely balanced paces.

Whilst tacking her up on Sunday she was fine, she did her normal trick of lifting her legs for me to pick them out. Whilst untacking her after the lesson I couldn't lift any of her feet very easily. I watched her moving round the field - she didn't seem to be stiff at all, she can seem almost crippled with pain in the field when her pain is very bad.

I'm lucky in that we have some lovely hills to hack on and I've spent most weekends lately walking up and down the hills with her, she goes straight down the hills, she's got a lot fitter and has some shoulder definition at last. I'm just confused that if her peak performance was a few weeks ago wouldn't her back have gone then if the pain is due to her now working properly ?

So back lady will be out asap and I will be trying to quell my feelings of doom about her health. Back lady will be giving me exercises to do and will be working with my my instructor about the results and what schooling exercises he should be doing with me.

Sorry for the length of this, didn't mean it to be an epic.


Sorry about the long quote.
I am glad I read your thread. It stuck a chord. having been there done that may I suggest...
Try a chiropractor/ Bowen person. You will need to get your vet's permission first. Be prepared to have her off work for months and spend a fair amount of money. £100's. Get them to assess your saddle and tell your saddler that you are taking chiropractors advice an dget them to work together. If there is physical problem the chiro will pick it up. if it is muscular they will sort it. There is light at the end of the tunnel and you do not have to risk life and limb

[amandal]

Thanks everyone.

Vet came out today. When I was grooming Ziz in prep for the visit she was still reluctant to pick her back feet up but was showing no reaction to me touching her spine - she had been leaping away.

Vet gave her a thorough going over, including flexion tests - if I'd thought that I might be running I'd have worn a different bra :o :) .

We walked and trotted up before and after the flexion tests and Ziz wasn't level before or after, vet also flexed fetlocks and we trotted up after that, still not level. One side it's her hocks and one side has hocks and fetlocks affected. Vet pointed out first signs of arthritis - when she pushed gently against the hocks you could see the swelling.

We're going to sort out the arthritis (or try to) first and when that's done see if the mounting/saddle/back pain thing goes away. So Ziz is on Dandralon (or something like that) twice a day, it's a palatable bute alternative. She's on box rest for 2 weeks & I've just bought a large powerful torch so I can take her for walks when I get to the yard. Once the 2 weeks is over I'll get the vet out again to see if anything's improved and we'll check her back again then too. I've postponed the massage therapist until after the arthritis in her hind legs has been worked on.

Hoping it is just arthritis as at least that's manageable and the prognosis isn't all doom and gloom. Really hoping I don't get the arthritis managed and then we discover she's got a serious back problem as well.

[Tangle]

Don't know whether to be pleased you've got something to work with or offering sympathy it's going to be a long term management issue.

Finger's crossed she's feeling perkier after her 2 weeks holiday :).

[arabianbaby]

wow. you poor things. i know how you feel..but there is definitely lots of hope. :)

i went through major problems with my baby (who had 3 separate leg injuries along with arthritis in his back) and was SO lucky to get a holistic dvm who is also a licensed chiro. if you can find someone (or a combination of practitioners) to prescribe drugs if needed along with chiro treatments and physio it should go well.

i had iv legend plus i'm giving msm and im glucosamine and along with the chiro treatments he is doing SO well. went from bucking when asked to canter to bucking after jumps and gallops for fun. i think one thing that helped more than anything is the physio excercises she showed me to do with him. the joint inflammation you can't make go away altogether (even with drugs) but if you are building up/stretching the surrounding muscles without impact/stress it can make a huge difference.

good luck and hope things get better.