Anyone got some tips on contact and outline.....I know BIG subject...!

[Vik2]

I am basically holding a contact and asking by pulling slightly on each of the reins at a different time. (I have flat work lessons very soon but am getting very frustrated meantime). I can get an outline on walk and trot but sometimes he puts his head up and then wants to canter. He is working from the front instead of the back (so I am told). I have not done things like bends etc so not really sure what I should be doing. Also should I be pulling my rein from the inside and legging on from the outside....all very confusing. Lessons for us both soon but your thoughts would be good to read. Thanks.
Also - do you think I'd doing my 10 year old any harm by not quite mastering outlines and contact? Or do you think we'll be ok once the lessons start.

[Tangle]

Hi Vik,

If I were you I'd wait for lessons - there's a greater chance of doing harm by trying to get an outline when you're not sure how than by having a horse a little on his forehand and accepting that's the way it is for now. (I wouldn't fret too much - it's more a risk of getting into bad habits that you'll have to relearn than doing physical damage unless you're putting in a LOT of effort ;)).

Do you have a place to school where you feel safe and do you trust him? If the answers yes, then I'd experiment a little and try and get control of his pace and direction without the reins. Stay in walk for a while until you get confident and ride on the buckle. Try and ride circles, serpentines, halts all with no contact on his mouth. Try and vary the walk from a good forward pace to something more controlled. Try and halt.

All of this will help to get him much more balanced, and will help you to learn not to be too dependent on the reins - both of which will make it much easier for you to get his quarters engaged, which will allow more impulsion, which will then allow him to come into a more advanced outline. You WILL get there :).

[Vik2]

yep, I trust him and yes I have a school...ok will try this tonight ! Only thing is if I don't have reins how do I stop and steer? Legs I guess and voice aids?
Will give it a go....! :D

[Tangle]

Legs and voice, yes, but also seat and weight. If you haven't had a look already, read through Heather Moffet's pages in the Kinder Way section (there's a link on the right of the page).

To start with, just try and be aware of what his back's doing under your seat bones. As he picks up his right leg, his right hip will dip and his stomach will swing to the left - you should be able to feel both of those things. Spend a little time just settling into the saddle and being aware of how the horse is moving under you. The more relaxed your hips and lower back are, the better - if you're really relaxed you should be more aware of your pelvis rocking side to side (so your hips are moving up and down with the horse's), if you're still a little bit tense you'll notice them moving more forwards and back (so you're kind of walking on your seat). If you're struggling you might want to close your eyes so you can really concentrate on what you're feeling.

Now your hips are really in tune with his, try and influence his pace: you can do that by adjusting the speed you let your hips move. So try and put the breaks on and slow his walk down for a few strides by using your lower back and stomach muscles to slow down the speed at which your hips move. Then relax and allow him to walk out again. If you can get that to work then halt is just an extension - rather than slowing your hips, try and stop them altogether ;).

For steering you need to adjust your weight distribution in the saddle - if you've ever given someone a piggy back ride you'll know just how unbalancing it can be to have someone on your back. We want to use a less extreme version of that to influence the horse's direction. So, try turning your body slightly to the left. What does the horse do? Now try turning to the right - what happens now? How about if you turn and put more weight in the inside stirrup? Once you get practiced at controlling yourself and your horse gets used to listening, you can reach the point where you only need to turn you head and the horse will turn with you :).

Basically, make the most of the time to play around. See how subtle you can be and still have your horse respond. If he's never been asked to listen to the rider's seat before then you might need to give a couple of reminders with the reins until he realises that you are now trying to talk in other ways - most horses pick up pretty quickly, though.

Hope that helps - and hope you had fun tonight :)

[Vik2]

It was raining cats and dogs tonight so we had a night off. As soon as the weather clears I will give it shot. Thanks for the tips ! :) I'll post and let you know how I go !

[BackintheSaddle]

This sounds really silly, but if you think about steering with your belly button, you CAN steer while keeping your reins slack. You can feel the effect if you sit on a swivel chair, then use just your hips and weight to make it go side to side. My lesson horse, who is very dead to the leg, is SUPER sensitive to weight aides and can do lovely serpentines when I steer with my belly button. He comes to a beautiful square halt when I lean back slightly and sit deep, and I can speed up his walk by following his movement more with my seat. All fun things to try that will help your boy balance up a bit.

[eventerbabe]

if he's not working form behind then all your fiddling is doing is creating a false outline and is a total waste of time. encourage him to work from behind, do lots of transitions, changes of rein and lateral work. if he's on the forehand he may well not be balanced either so him throwing his head up means he's unbalanced. stop the fiddling, get cracking on encouraging him to work behind properly and wait for your lessons to worry about outlines. if anything, the first stage should be encouraging him to work long and low, working through and stretching out his topline and neck.

[Trewsers]

Not being cheeky and butting in or anything, but can anybody tell me please why it is soo important to have your horse working in a perfect outline and that it works from behind??? Does it really matter or is it preferable for shows / dressage? I understand the theory of it all and have had many lessons with my teacher going through it with me and agree that to fiddle about and get it wrong on your own you do more harm than good. Thats what I wouldn't want to do! Any thoughts?

[eventerbabe]

certainly in the lower levels of dressage (prelim/novice) the judges are looking for a horse that is using its bottom(backside=engine in horse terms!), tracking through nicely and has an element of self carriage. last class i wrote for was a novice one and the judge was more interested in a nice, relaxed horse working through from behind and not resisting the bit than she was in those with their heads pinned to their chests but trundling along and not working. when i get on my horse for a schooling session, i'm not the slightest bit interested in fiddling and maintaining a perfect outline. as long as he is working from behind, i stick with a more long and low outline.

[Tangle]

Not being cheeky and butting in or anything, but can anybody tell me please why it is soo important to have your horse working in a perfect outline and that it works from behind??? Does it really matter or is it preferable for shows / dressage?
For me there are two aspects to this:
1) horse's aren't designed to have a human sat on their back - by asking them to work correctly we ask them to lift their backs, which allows them to distribute the load more effectively. Hopefully this will result in fewer injuries and a healthier, happier horse.
2) for a horse (or a human :p) to be able to change direction and/or pace precisely and with control they need to be balanced. It's the difference between a child running across the playground as fast as it can (horse on it's forehand) and a prima balerina that turn/spin/stop on a sixpence. The better balanced the horse (or human) the easier it will be for them to control their own body and respond to requests for change - whether it's piaffe, jumping or just avoiding a slippery drain cover in the road.

I'm definitely with eventerbabe - the head will sort itself out when it's ready, and in the meantime the head and neck is hugely important in allowing your horse to balance itself :). Rather than hold the head still, use it as good feedback on how you and your horse are doing ;)

Hope the weather improved for you, Vik - it's turned into a vile evening here so Madam's got the night off :rolleyes: