Taking forever to learn things

[Daffy Dilly]

The problem I have is that I can't do something, such as get Daffy on the bit, without my instructor there with me, talking me through it step by step. It's taken me 18months to get him to begin working in an outline in a snaffle. She showed me how to do it on Sunday, and it's so simple. I cannot believe I couldn't do it before.

Its really frustrating as I want to be able to do things like shoulder in and leg yield, and to turn him to look where we're going and so on, but i am completely dependant on my instructor to teach me how.

Any body got any tips to help me replicate what I read in the textbooks? We did get an extended trot once at a show with no tuition, but I wanted a canter and he was just being lazy. :o

[kedwards]

If you are looking for tips on how to get around lessons, then I don't have tips for that. For learning new things (e.g., learning new dressage movements or how to work on the bit), I don't think there is any good alternative to having an instructor watch and provide feedback. While the books can give you information about what aids to give, learning to feel when the horse is working properly requires correct practice. Unfortunately, some types moves (including lateral work) can do more harm than good if done incorrectly.

[Daffy Dilly]

No I still want my lessons. It just that sometimes I can't have them often enough. I had one last weekend, and that was my first one since the 11th August!! My instructor was busy and because she does the lessons for free and we get on so well I don't want to switch to a different instructor, as I don't think I'd find a better one for me.

It's just in the middle of lessons, where we don't seem to progress and I run out of ideas on what to do. So I read about something in a book and think it'd be useful, then I can't do it.

I'll stick with the lessons or hacking and just school when i know what I'm working on.

[ANN H]

Hi Daffy

I had EXACTLY the same problem. Have only just got Misty going in a nice soft outline and I've had her for 3 years! And you're right, it is so easy when you know how. She tends to go better when my instructor is actually physically there. Its as if she knows she has to work, and I can't seem to get motivated when I school on my own.

[teabiscuit]

that's exactly what happens to me!I think its a combination of my horse liking someone else being there and giving him attention, (not just boring old me)and I have to admit, i do try harder when i'm having a lesson :)

[cvb]

Daffy Dilly. OK some questions for you which may seem a bit weird ;)

When you ride without your teacher, do you plan it before hand ? i.e. do you go into the arena, out a hack saying "I am going to work on X now" ?

Do you review your plan after your warm up ? i.e. I had been going to work on leg yield but he's a bit forward going so I'll revise half-halts first for 15 mins and see how it goes ?

do you review your plan DURING the session ? you might be finding it harder than you thought so need to take a step back and work on the basics first, or easier than you thought so need to add a new challenge in

and do you review at the end ?

When you have a lesson with your trainer, do you think about it afterwards and work out what you want to work on before your next lesson ?

There's a saying which goes something like "if you don't know where you are going, thats where you will end up !"

[Daffy Dilly]

In a way.

I always know what the aim of the day is. It's always to improve impulsion, do stirrupless work (if in the school) and try and get the hairy thing into a contact. I generally work on the outside track with a lot of changes of rein/pace.

I sometimes change what I'd planned/am doing, if he was being a sod I'd forgo the stirrupless work until he was behaving, or if he was being really good we'd try for some walk-canter transitions and the like.

I do think it over when I get home, but a lot of the time its "why couldn't I do that" or "he should've been doing that when i asked", that kind of thing. If we have a good session it makes it easier to think about what went well, but we don't progress too well without my instructor unless we have "homework". I always ask her for what to work on specifically for my next lesson, and we come up with something together. If there's nothing specific I'll tell her what I would like to work on next (ie when I couldn't get him into an outline in the snaffle we spent 1hour working at that) and she'll give me some prep work.

The hardest part for me is finding new and interesting things to do when I'm schooling, hence why I would like to be able to just do something from a book. Transitions and figures are all we can currently do, so it can get a bit boring, which is why I never school for an hour on my own.

[cvb]

Daffy Dilly

great - you're on the right track then. We all get stuck in a rut now and then.

So we have a basic structure

- warm up
- actual work
- cool down

My basic warm up varies. I've done simply walk, trot, canter in a novice outline on both reins. I've done "change the rein every way I know how, both directions" in walk, then trot. Then add a canter. Right now I'm doing a lot of work on basic "softness" so I have an extended walk session with halt and reinback in it as a start.

With the actual work session its a question of building up the different exercises you know, understanding when and how you might use them. e.g. today I want to work on straightness so I'll use.....

There are some useful books here - Cherry Hill does some "101 exercises for..." books, at least some of which have a way of hanging them on the fence or wall in the arena !!

I'm probably not as good at cool down as I should be - but stretching, slower work, to let them loosen up, catch their breath, relax.

if you get stuck, a useful thing to do can be to pick a dressage test and ride that. Work out what you felt you could do better on, and that provides the theme. Then you can check our progress by riding all or part of that test towards the end of each session.

IMHO there is also a tendency in UK to back off things like leg yield etc for too long. We have this theory the horse has to be at a certain level before we try them. In my view this is a bit like saying "you can't go in the water til you've learnt how to swim" :rolleyes: Sure it won't be perfect ;) but in working on the exercise you and the horse will learn, will loosen up, and other things will improve as a result.

A real example - Fi has had back problems so had issues with canter at times. But if I do some work in canter, we get the most amazing trot work after :D So I will sometimes "do" canter just to work on the trot ! :p

[Siogfinsceal]

I know how you feel -its much harder to do things when you dont have you instructor there to giuide you!.

I woul dsugest -
Firstly get a good easy to understand dresage book. I got an excellent one called 'discovering dresage' canot think who wrote it tho!

Take your time. If you get frustrated when somethings not going right, just relax and come back to it. Think small steps - things like leg yielding take time. Why not ask your instructor to suggest some excercises and or/ a riding plan for you during the time she is not there. She can then measure your progress the next time she calls over.

And most of alll - relax! riding id meant to be fun. Ive done the same thing myself and found that sometimes the more you try the harder things can be cos you are trying hard and getting stressed then the horse picks up on it and gets stressed to! Try to do some fun activities along with your schooling and enjoy yourself. Best of luck

[Daffy Dilly]

Well, we usually spend 5 minutes opening the gate. The catch is one of those lever ones, and it's really stiff. And the gate itself catches on the ground. I got sick of getting on and off, and so I have to get him to rein back properly (none of this yanking!) and do a turn on the fore (both need work, but there was a time when we couldn't get him to do it with my instructor giving him the aids from the ground as well!) so we probably make more progress with that gate than we do elsewhere. :p

So I'd modify it all the time, but would this be a good example of a training session for us?

Warm up (in as much of a contact as we can manage)
- walk on both reins, figure of 8, halting at X, A and C
- steady trot on both reins, change the rein down the centre line. Back to walk at X until the next marker, then trot.
- figure of 8 in canter, trot at X, then back to canter at a corner marker

Actual Work
- ditch stirrups and start trotting around the outside of the school
- circle in at every 3rd marker, change the rein on every 3rd circle
- allow him to free walk and have a stretch (he's new to this outline lark so obviously we don't want to overwork him)
- collect him up, take him on the quarter line in walk and try and move him over - we have problems with leg yielding (he doesn't) and he's constantly trying to get off the track so we need to work on this
- if he grasps that attempt it in trot
- let him stretch again
- do some transitional work to help balance him and to get me maintaining his outline through transitions
- on some of his halts do exercises like around the world/scissors to help me balance

Cool down
- walk a 3 loop serpentine, concentrating on riding to the track, keeping my inside leg on to stop him falling in/make the circles real circles, and trying to turn him where we're going
- allow him his head to have a good stretch and walk for 2/3 minutes

Does that sound reasonable?

[Siogfinsceal]

Yup Sounds good! ;-) Whenever I ride any horse I always spend at least 10 mins warming up in walk. I do circles and make sure that the horse is bending correctly, working on the bit etc. My instructor always tells me that if you can get it in walk it will be easier to get it in trot!

My friends gave me an excellent tip when I was having trouble leg yeilding my mare. She said to walk down the eight line at first and always leg yeild TOWARDS the arena fence. This makes more sense to the horse because he will want to go towards the fence and usually we spend our time encouraging the horse to stay out to the outside. Getting him to leg yield away from teh fence at first confuses them. get the leg yield (even 2 steps is good and deserves a pat so that he knows that this is what you want him to do) on the eight line first, then progress to the quarter line.
hope this helps!

[Daffy Dilly]

Ah I have the opposite problem. Particularly in canter. He comes away from the track rather than heading for it. I think it's a question of balance, as he does motorbike the corners if I don't "hold that front end" which I find difficult to do because he backs off.

I've been trying to ride straight at the fence without even considering turning until the very last instant. It did work, but when I have that many other things to think about it can be hard to remember that. :rolleyes:

I'll try him on the 1/8 line then. perhaps he was just a bit too far from the fence on the 1/4 line. :)

[Siogfinsceal]

lol i had another pony I rode that motor biked too! give it a try and hope it goes well for you!

[cvb]

Daffy Dilly

try breaking it down a bit more...

for example, to ask for leg yield they need to understand that your leg aid is askign them over, and not for speed, and they need to warm up enough to step across.

Now in a lot of cases you need to impulsion of trot to start with, walk is harder :rolleyes:

So a good walk exercise to work on preparing for leg yield is this..

Work on a "diamond" in one half of the school. A (or C) and X are two of your corners and the other two corners are 10m up from the corner on each long side.

Start by simply riding the diamond. Now - at each corner you are going to ride a turn on forehand. You are looking for the quality of each step - so don't rush it. When you get a couple of really nice turns in a row, then change the rein and repeat the other way.

Now - you're going to work on leg yield across the diagonal. Bear in mind the feeling you had in turn on forehand when that hind leg steps over...

Turn across the diagonal and make sure you are straight for a few strides before you ask. Now IN WALK ask for a step of "turn on forehand". So say I am on the right rein changing to left, I am going to ask the hind quarters to step across to right (so I start to face more to the end of the school than the end of the diagonal - but only by a fraction !). The difference here between t.o.f. and leg yield is that you need to maintain the forward motion, not halt and turn. So start by asking one stride only, and then walking forward, ask again for one stride, walk forward for a few and so on. Now start joining the strides up ;)

(Note. the leg cue is just AT the girth. This may sound "wrong" but you get a much better quality of yield this way, rather than a quarter-swing. I think this is the modification you need to make to turn it from a pivot to a forward sideways - move the leg forward onto the girth again. Asking behind the girth is a strong ask to just move the quarters and not step over and through (I suspect)).

and what do we get ? leg yield across the diagonal. NB keep your focus and end point as the end of the diagonal so don't ask for too much bend and angle.

Ok - how does that feel ?

Now - how about this for a thought - go large around the school but turn up just off the track. Now ask with the inside leg for a little yield. Note you are NOT yielding back to the fence/track. You are riding forward but with a slight angle...

Ta-** - you just got shoulder-fore !!

And there's more of these you can play with too once you get the basic principle in place :D

[Siogfinsceal]

well yes thats what I meant not TOWARDS as in head first lol but parrallel to it so you are goign forwards but leg yeilding that way.

[cvb]

Daffy Dilly, Siogfinsceal

The potential risk of leg yielding to the fence is that rider and horse both "fall" towards it without learning what the aid really means and without learning to balance.

That doesn't mean that leg yielding to the fence ALWAYS has that result - but that it can happen.

The advantage of the "diagonal" approach is that you don't have the fence to fall on to. But you do have a clear focus point, and you can ask a stride, ride forward, ask a stride, and so on. It does tend to mean the horse listens a little more as they have no expectation "oh we're on the quarter line so if I zip across that way we're done !" ;)

I learnt this other way when I was in Sweden and I think its excellent :D as a way to start this family of movements.

[Siogfinsceal]

i know its not ideal. just saying it worked for me. my mare was 16 when i started teaching her this stuff so she wasnt too keen. She couldnt grasp what I meant until I did it that way and then she got it. Now she does it both ways. I used the eight line cos on the quarter line i was expecting to much lol I must have been watching to many of them dresage vids where they zip across sideways legs crossing back and forth ;-)

[cvb]

Siogfinsceal

not saying your way is "wrong", just that in these circumstances, the diagonal approach might be better.

Plus even with the yield-to-the-track approach, even a single step is a start ! Yes we all tend to go for the quarter line and expect them to zip sideways - but quality is more important that quantity in this case :cool:

[Daffy Dilly]

I remember that we were taught it at a riding school (most interesting thing they ever did with us) and it was always done to the fence. There were quite a few horses that didn't do it well and just turned to face the fence, perhaps your first post explains why CVB.

It seems quite daunting thinking about trying to leg yield across the diagonal, but we'll give it a go and see what happens. :p

I never thought of doing a diamond like that either. If I do that I can do it in the middle of the school too, and that should make life more interesting trying to ride it straight. :)

[cvb]

in the middle of an arena, E and B become 2 of the "points".

And there's an advanced version ;)

Make the turn on forehand but do one extra step and then "leg yeild" along to the next corner ;) (this is the "shoulder-fore" leg yield I mentioned).