carrying/using a whip

[brandy's mum]

I've been riding a few months . My RI is very determined that I carry and use a whip, I've tried both shorter and longer sorts but I'm really rubbish at both.I find it hard to keep my hand position right and if I try to use it I just end up hitting myself. which I know isn't the idea! In the end my balance and concentration on what I'm doing starts to go as well. She seems to want me to have a whip even if I feel I can keep the horse going forward ok without. So, any ideas on why she wants this and how to manage it better would be very appreciated.

[Mehitabel]

it's a useful skill - some horses do need to know it's there in order not to take the mickey, and on hacks particularly you never know when you are going to need an emergency bottom smack - napping in a road, for example. it's part of being a rounded rider to know how to use one effectively, even if 99% of the time you never do.
what is going wrong with using it? it's hard ot say what to try without a bit more detail.

[Dummer&Drummer]

i hit myself and miss the horse all of the time
i remember a few months doing xc schooling and my instructor was shouting at me, you got a whip use it' (as we stopped at one jump) i used it and we jumped lovely - was only told that i had missed his bum altogether but gave me the determination thinking i'd given him a smack :D

[hackedoff]

If you dont want to use it dont! Its making you muddled and unhappy, why is your RI so hung up on whip use? Seems a bit odd to me!

[Wobblydeb]

I prefer not to use them unless necessary - which might include reminding a riding school horse of my aids in the school, or preventing the back end swinging out onto the road in a hack. I often don't make contact with the horse, and just swishing the whip in the air is effective :) Actually my RI taught me not to worry about actually making contact - she has one particular horse that goes better if you are carrying one though. Perhaps yours does it for the same reason?

I do get some problems carrying them though :rolleyes: if I have to carry one a long time in the school my hand starts to ache, or if I've got a very forward horse to hold as well as the whip (had this happen at college, so I ditched the whip!).

Generally I've found a narrower handle is the best - it's easier to hold. A short hunting crop is easier to switch between hands, but long dressage whips are easiest to use without moving your hands. I only ever used the short kind as a kid, and it's taking some getting used to the dressage style :o

[banny]

My pony is naturally very lazy so needs a reminder every so often. I was exactly the same at first, i used to miss the horse and/or hit myself but over time i've got better. I still ocasionally miss but now sometimes just putting the reins into one hand to take my hand off to use the whip is enough of a reminder for her to move forward.

[Trewsers]

Agree with Mehitabel - it is a part of being a rider - you need to be able to carry / use it. I used to hate carrying one but I'm glad my teacher made me, because now I don't even think about it, and its jolly useful - even for my forward going mare!!!:D She just needs to know its there:p I think it just takes practice, eventually you'll get it so you don't even notice it being there and if you ever forget to pick it up before you go riding it feels weird without it!:)

[nicolaj]

I find that holding a whip has a psychological effect on Fatty, if I don't then making him go forward is a right pain!

If I do use it tend to hit myself of the stirrup, but sometimes it's just the swishing movement that gets him moving again.

Also don't want a 'dead leg' horse, if he doesn't go from one leg aid, then again backed up with the whip. Just helps with the schooling,but also when out hacking can be useful if necessary as well.

[brandy's mum]

thanks lots, I now understand why she's asking me to. Mehitabel's question about why I find it so hard really made me think. I think it's several things: I worry that if I move my hand out to use the whip my horse will think I want him to move that way as well, I also think I'm at the stage when find it hard to co-ordinate doing all the different things at once, plus the dressage whip I was trying to use yesterday was scraping against the wall of the indoor school cos I mustn't have been holding it flat enough against my leg - if you see what I mean! So I got worried about that.

[Kanuma]

brandys mum, if your schooling whip was scraping the wall then you are holding it in the wrong hand, it should be on your inside. get your instructor to teach you how to swap it over!

[brandy's mum]

"if your schooling whip was scraping the wall then you are holding it in the wrong hand, it should be on your inside".



I think I've just won idiot of the year !!!!! If only she'd told me - but then I guess it is pretty obvious to most people

[Kanuma]

dont worry about it, schooling whips are quite fiddly to swap from hand to hand i find! maybe she didnt want you concentrateing on the swap everytime you changed rein!

[Dummer&Drummer]

nah that is not idiot of the year dont worry :) ive just worked out left and right rein and which way that means i have to go :)

i also find carrying a whip hard and changing hands whilst on the move eg, last night i rode my friends tb x irish draught i think and he was not amused being clipped over the ears with the schooling whip so i could carry it in my correct hand - cant say my ol cob notices :D

it is really awkward and a dam pain for a while but your'll get the hang of it and like the others have said does come in handy from time to time

[tracyward]

Not quite sure what to say, RI's that i have had in the past left it to me whether or not i used/carried one.

I find carrying a smaller schooling whip does the trick for me, my arms are not long enough of the long whips, struggle changing hands. I very rarely have to use awhip on Millie, but i do notice she takes the mick when i dont carry one.

Have you tried riding at walk around the school with a whip, getting use to it, changing from one hand to another, then progress that little more when you feel ready.

You will get there in the end.:)

[shakey rider]

I find that I tend to move my hand really far out when I am trying to use it and it ends in the horse turning slightly.

I think that I would be better using one hand to hold the reins and one to use the crop.

[Skib]

Mehitabel puts it well. I agree. I have two diffrent whips, a short one for hacking and a long dressage whip for lessons in the school as that is what my teacher likes.
A long whip out hacking is invaluable for whisking flies away from your horse (horses love it) but learning to change a long whip from one hand to the other is a real palaver. You have to learn how.
The ex army instructor told me fiercely that he did not intend to show me twice. I was to watch carefully and practise the hand change instead of idly watching TV that night. He had no idea of the pile of ironing waiting to be done while I watched TV.
But the hand change is important because it is easier to do with a whip that has no knob on the handle. But,if you dont have a knob on the handle, it is easier to drop the whip. I am a regular dropper of whips and OH and I walk out to retrieve them, rather like walking the course, only after the ride.

Hitting your boot or the air doesnt matter - it is a useful first warning to back up an aid that is being ignored. Time and again I have had to "lend" my whip to my escort out hacking, who being expert has come out without one and found it might be useful to control her difficult horse. This is possibly why all teachers make it a rule that their pupils should always ride with a whip.

[pedantic]

Never used or carried one on the old pony I rode which belonged to my friend, now I have my own ginger nutter I use it to reinforce my leg if it is ignored or if he faffs crossing a road and I NEED him to move NOW, I will give him a smack with it if he bucks to let him know the behaviour isn't acceptable, I tend to ride with it in my right hand most of the time and only alter to avoid hitting a passer by or another rider on my right, I can ride with it in my left but not comfortably.
I dont really have to use it much as he is responding to my leg pretty well and I dont like using unless necessary anyway.

[hackedoff]

Sorry I disagree that using a whip is a necessary part of being a competant rider.

[Kanuma]

hacked off why?
i find it invaluble to open gates, prevent ponies from swinging their quaters into traffic and getting rid of dogs that are nipping at ponies!
id also rather give him a shap smack behind my leg to remind him to go forward when i ask then nagg him, nagging is how you get ponies who are dead to the leg!

[GOBBY]

I always carry a whip and make sure my kids do, i find just by having one with me 2 of our ponies are better behaved, i rarely use it , but find its usefull for flicking brambles out the way if your on a bridle path, use it for pulling or opening a gate, etc, the more you carry it the more uses you will find, right down to a car clipping your stirrup iron as it passes and smack the roof of their car!!! everyone has different ideas about whips and how to use them ,if i do use my whip on ours which is rare i tend to tap them on the neck as i had one and if you taped his bum he went from 0 to 60 in an instant, also i have to agree with another thred if your on a busy narrow road, ( the village) and the coach passes you have only a couple inches to spare so to use it to keep the back end in until a larger vehcle has passed is a must for us.

[EponaofPendle]

I used to feel terrible about using the whip and the horses took complete advantage of me! Finally my riding instructor made me stand in the arena and smack MYSELF all over with the whip and I concluded that it didn't really hurt. So now I use it guilt free!

Once one of the ponies was on a loose rein. He reached back, grabbed the end of the schooling whip in his teeth and thwacked it so it hit my boot! ;)

[jinglejoys]

I don't carry a whip with me so I won't be tempted to use it:) If I'm really desperate I'll cut one out of the hedge.I know there are times when it is needed as a guide but I'd rather not if I can get away with it.
I've just been rewatching Mark Rashids C.D "Understanding Footfall" and a lot of my previous problems suddenly becom clearer! I remember being told to "push with your seat" which doesn't help the horse at all and "gripping with your knees" which puts you and the horse off balance.He also shows how doing these things can stop a horse rather than speeding it up and giving it the wrong signal when its foot is in the wrong position can force it to swing its backend out.No wonder Sarah-lee has been so confused!

[pedantic]

My daughter had to threaten a moron with her crop who with a couple of his mates wanted to hit our horses with a stick he had snapped of a tree, I just told him I would break his f*****n neck, did the trick, verbal plus reinforcment of the crop works on morons as well as horses :D

I agree with Kanuma there are lots of different uses for crops, lady I went riding with on holiday was a hunter and used her crop with a hook on the end to open all the gates, dont think she used it once on the horse.

[hackedoff]

there are lots of different uses for crops
Yeah but its the most common one I find distasteful! If someone would invent a gate opening/dog fending implement that cannot be used to whack horsie with I would happily carry one :D

[cvb]

Sorry I disagree that using a whip is a necessary part of being a competant rider.
Yeah but its the most common one I find distasteful! If someone would invent a gate opening/dog fending implement that cannot be used to whack horsie with I would happily carry one

Hacked off - had to be a pedant on this one... would a "competent rider" use a whip in the "most common way" you find distasteful ?

I personally find myself reviewing it the whole time. I got encouraged by an instructor to carry a dressage whip to ask for the hind leg to come through. I did this, but a few months later found I needed to review again - was I really just using it when the (inside) hind leg needed to be more active or was I using it at other times too ? My personal approach is that I want the horse to respond to light aids, so should not be using the whip as a substitute leg aid :rolleyes:

Now wondering whether I qualify as a "competent rider"... because whilst I have 30 sommat years of teaching and experience in my head, I'm somewhat unfit - if I was fitter my aids would be more precise and effective and maybe the added help would not be required ? (personal) Jury is out on that, as I think this is still about refinement NOT force and control....

I think as a "competent rider" I need to know how to use the tools available to me, including a whip, but I also need to know WHEN to use them.

Would that cover it for you ?

[raingodz]

I think as a "competent rider" I need to know how to use the tools available to me, including a whip, but I also need to know WHEN to use them.

At the moment I prefer riding with out a whip, but that is because I am not a competant rider! But I might start carrying one in my lesson so I can get used to holding it (and swapping it over :rolleyes: ). My RI is of the opinion that the whip is a backup to other aids (well for people of my level any way).

I thought that JOJOBA made quite an interesting post about using a whip, combined with other aids, to get Hector going well: http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66703

[*Sez*]

Just carrying a schooling whip makes Jake listen. I rarely actually touch either horse with it, and tend to tap my riding boot instead, which has the same effect.

I spent ages arguing with my dad about the crop when we first bought Jacob. He thought it was cruel but would then complain about how Jake didn't listen to his leg aids and always behaved better for me. I recently had to politely point out that my dad was using the whip incorrectly - Jake is having the Kevins in a big way, and when he misbehaved my dad was fetching the whip and threatening him with it, cracking it through the air. Personally, I consider this mis-use of a training aid - the object is to back up the leg aid, not make your horse terrified of it. I have, on occasion, physically removed a crop or whip from someone who was beating their horse with it. Again, I don't consider this the correct use for it - it should not be a punishment. My worst accident was a fall from a whip-shy pony in a stubble field and I strongly believe that riders need to calmly influence their horse to do as requested, not beat it into submission. The best riders I have seen have an incredible partnership with their horse, not a "master-slave" relationship.

[hackedoff]

cvb c'mon- Lets stay friends, eh? :o
I do not on the whole see whips being used to refine anything, but then I dont do dressage or high falutin schooling. BUT I do see folks hitting their horse without asking themselves why it isnt moving forward/ standing still/happy to do its work. I went to local show this summer and every time I turned around some horse or pony was getting six of the best. I saw a lady in the line-up for M&M hit her tiny pony across the face because it wasnt standing square, I heard Pony Club mums screaming at their kids "Hit him harder or you wont win!" and it all made me quite ashamed to be part of it. The original question was why should a rider be forced by their RI to use a crop when it only served to confuse and unbalance the rider, and I think we've all agreed that this MUST be a question of personal choice not pressure from anyone.

[ridingstar]

I went to local show this summer and every time I turned around some horse or pony was getting six of the best.

Do you mean this literally? Any more than about three whacks for a disobedience such as a refusal would be considered excessive at most shows. "Six of the best", assuming we are talking about hard hits, i.e. whip held upright, would normally result in a call to see the stewards.

[Kanuma]

the worst stan has had was a quick smack (1 of!!) behind my leg when he is being an idiot! he normaly settles down after that!

[jinglejoys]

"Any more than about three whacks for a disobedience such as a refusal would be considered excessive at most shows."

This is what I can't get my head round.I'm not experianced enough to know if the refusal (Disobediance) was my fault,knowing now that how you breath etc can cue the equine completely wrongly-I'd be more inclined to blame myself so maybe its me that needs the whip;)

[Kalypso]

Not to get off topic, but...I've always been taught to carry the whip on the outside :confused:

anyway...Mia needs a crop. there's no getting around it. We've had her checked, back done, etc, her refusals to move forward are simply her testing me. Actually, usually it is when all the other horses are *somewhere* else...that's really the only time she gets stubborn. A good, quick smack with the crop will get her going. I don't use it very often, but when I do it is well-deserved. I don't agree with beating a horse with a crop, but there are times they are useful and needed.

[cvb]

cvb c'mon- Lets stay friends, eh? :o
I do not on the whole see whips being used to refine anything, but then I dont do dressage or high falutin schooling. BUT I do see folks hitting their horse without asking themselves why it isnt moving forward/ standing still/happy to do its work. I went to local show this summer and every time I turned around some horse or pony was getting six of the best. I saw a lady in the line-up for M&M hit her tiny pony across the face because it wasnt standing square, I heard Pony Club mums screaming at their kids "Hit him harder or you wont win!" and it all made me quite ashamed to be part of it. The original question was why should a rider be forced by their RI to use a crop when it only served to confuse and unbalance the rider, and I think we've all agreed that this MUST be a question of personal choice not pressure from anyone.

Hacked Off - I was just being picky. In my definition, anyone who "whacks" like that is automatically NOT competent ;)

What worries me about the scenarios you describe is no one is putting their heads over the parapet and saying no ! I had a pony when I was Pony Clubbing that if I'd carried a whip we'd have been two counties away :eek: Sure I needed to know HOW to use one, but then I needed to use it appropriately. Hopw come instructors seem to insist on the first part but not the second ?! :mad:

Kalypso - have you every asked why ? I think we teach to carry it on inside for more than one reason. i. practicality. You don't knock the wall etc with it ! ii. because in most cases you are asking the horse to activate the inside hind - easier to do that with the whip on that side...

there are probably more...

[sidesaddlelady1]

"[QUOTE=GOBBY]the more you carry it the more uses you will find, right down to a car clipping your stirrup iron as it passes and smack the roof of their car!!! "
Unfortunately, If you assault a person or a car you could be deeply in the mire. Don't do it

[Lora]

"Any more than about three whacks for a disobedience such as a refusal would be considered excessive at most shows."

This is what I can't get my head round.I'm not experianced enough to know if the refusal (Disobediance) was my fault,knowing now that how you breath etc can cue the equine completely wrongly-I'd be more inclined to blame myself so maybe its me that needs the whip;)

Me too.. riding well is such an elusive thing that I can do great one day..and complete crap the next. The fact that you're askign this tells me that you know more than you're letting on. = )

I sometimes realize that I am not riding correctly and am sending miscues to my horse. But I do know many riders that blame a horse incorrecltly. :(

[JOJOBA]

Raingodz - I search my name periodically to see what's being said about me, :p which is how I found this post.
I use a whip on my horse purely because Id prefer to smack him once than niggle him for the rest of time. If you read the thread my instructor made some interesting comments about it.
She also prefers kicking to squeezing for the same reason. One of my instructors came up to me and leant on my leg and said 'does that make you pay attention to me?' I said no, and then she smacked my leg :p and said 'I'll bet that does, and I bet the next time I raise my hand (if Id hit you hard!) you'll move.'
Id much rather have a horse who anticipates the whip and shifts, than one who you have to use tons of leg on all the time. The idea is that eventually you wont need to ever use your leg hard or your whip again, because the horse knows the stages as 1)leg, 2) loose rein, 3) SMACK. So after a month or so by the time you've reached 2 they're off, and not long after that by the time you've reached 1 theyre off.

My instructor told me off not long ago for tapping with the whip rather than smacking with it. I was riding a very lazy cob and he totally ignored me when I put my leg on. I tapped him and he ignored me, and she said 'well all you've done now is told him that it's okay not to go because you wont really make him, and also that it's okay to ignore the whip. Now you're going to have to tap him over and over if you carry on like that.' So he got one big smack and I didnt have to use the whip one more time after that - and I also didnt have to use my legs hard. It made such a nice change considering that this is a horse usually being ridden round with people kick-kick-kicking away to make him trot, and after the smack he popped off into canter as soon as I put my leg on.


xxx

[chickflick1066]

I always ride with a whip but I too struggle holding it properly :o My reasons for always carrying a whip, a short one I use for hacking as Stumpy likes to be a prat sometimes and needs 'reminding' that I'm still in charge - even when she is rearing :rolleyes: I use (or at least I try to use) a dressage whip in lessons as a back up from my leg.

I often use it do prod open gates etc :p

[Coventry celt]

A smart tap with the whip is far kinder than several boots in the sides when a pony just won't go! I think even I'd rather be smacked on the thigh than kicked in the ribs!

If you feel guilty about using it, then aim for your boot (if you wear long boots) or the front of the saddleflap. Usually the noise makes them listen to you!

A schoolng whip is far easier to handle than a riding crop if you find getting it over your leg difficult - because it's longer and flexes more. You just need to be a tiny bit more gentle with it, because of the tail - it stings alot more.

(if you're hacking, it's also useful for threatening the local chavs, who will be sure to shout obscenities any time you see them - It's a shame you can't actually belt them with it!)

[raingodz]

Raingodz - I search my name periodically to see what's being said about me, :p which is how I found this post.

Ironicaly I just searched for my name and found your post about searching for your name referencing me...

I hope you didn't mind me dragging you in to this thread :o I just felt that your thread about getting Hector going went beyond the use a whip / don't use a whip thing and moved it more into a why use a whip and how to use a whip - which seemed a relevant case study for the subject of this thread.