Banks on beds?

[*Sez*]

Just a quick question about banking. ATM, Salsa has a thick straw bed with high banks. I understand that the idea behind banking is to stop the horse rolling and getting cast.

However, Jacob is on rubber mats with a thin layer of straw to absorb urine and give him something to cuddle, and doesn't really have banks at all. I was always taught that mats could be used with or without bedding, and normally if bedding goes down, it's shavings. The reason Jake is on straw is because it's included in our rent and shavings are extra (my dad doesn't want to pay more). I've worked at yards that had rubber mats and didn't use any bedding whatsoever. It made mucking out much quicker and the horses always seemed fine with it.

A friend of my dad's came out a while ago, and went nuclear about Jacob not having banks. She really upset my dad and told him that he was clearly trying to "kill his horse". Of course, because I am their "expert" and just did Jake's stable the same as I would when I worked at a yard, the blame has fallen on my head. However, I don't see how Jake's bed is made is any different to how it would be done with shavings. I don't think her problem was the fact that it was straw, but that it was a thin bed and there were no banks. In all my years working on yards, I've never seen a horse with rubber mats and a thick, banked bed. If he will get cast on a thin straw bed, surely horses without any bedding, or with a thin layer of shavings on mats are equally at risk?

Obviously, I don't want to harm Jake, but I've worked at several different yards and have known lots of "horsey people". While lots of ideas differ, this seemed to be one thing they all agreed on - that rubber mats meant you could do away with a full bed and banks. Do I just have it all wrong? :o

[No_Angel]

all mine are on matting and dont have banks, they just have a bit of shavings on the floor at the back.
at college a few horses had matting, most had banks.
my stables are big enough for my horses to roll and not get cast, so i dont really worry. they lie down as theyve always got muck up the side of their rugs.

[*Sez*]

Our stables are 12X12 large (in feet, that is, not centimeters or anything!) and I'm fairly sure both horses roll as they're always covered in muck all over their rugs! Does this sound large enough?

[No_Angel]

3 of my stables are 14x16- i have a 15.1, 16, and 16.3 in them. little pony has a 12x8 i think.
12x12 are the standard size, but it really depends on how big your horses are and how much they move around.
i remember seeing my 16hh girl in a 12x12 stable and she looked huge, shes a normal sized idxtb.

also banks make the stables smaller for the horses, so that also depends on size. my college loved big banks, but i prefer smaller banks.

[arabianbaby]

i can't off much advice other than my barn has NO mats and only a thin layer of shavings. they have done this for many years with 20 horses and haven't had any problems. i'm not saying i think it's ok... i have put in mats and as thick bed as i'm allowed for my 2... just that i wouldn't feel bad and don't think you've done anything really off.

[Rosanna]

Robin has mats with a huge thick medibed bed on top and humongous banks, and he also wears stable bandages as he once got cast and put his leg through a brick wall. The mats are just there because sometimes he kicks off the bedding as he walks around and I don't want him lying on the concrete. He is so irritating though, most horses walk on top of the bedding, but robin insists on walking through the bedding!

[Trewsers]

Our two both have rubber matting and nice big banks. Joe has nice big banks cos he is prone to getting cast but he has rubber matting because he used to bang his legs / bottom of them on the stable floor when he first moved in - resulting in cuts. I don't mind them having a nice deep bed of straw as well as rubber matting - its the least I can do:D :p I know its easier to just have the rubber matting - easier for mucking out - but after all its their little house so I try and keep it as nice as poss. I guess its just personal preference.

[Kira657]

Where I used to work we had rubber matting and a thin layer of paper for bedding, thats the whole idea of them, to save on using so much bedding material!Unless your horse has been cast in the stable before or I wouldn't worry about it. I don't even have banks on my own horses stable and she's bedded down on straw

[blackhorses]

None of my horses have banks in thier stables, the smallest of my stables is 14 x 14 but most are 23 x 14 as my horses are quite large - friesians, I deep litter them on straw and poop scoop every day :eek: and totally muck them out every 10 days, and none of them have ever got cast, I am not worried about banking the walls up as I don't think a bank of straw is going to stop a ton of horse getting stuck!! Horses have pretty good spatial awareness and usually know where they are in relation to thier surroundings.
If you are worried then you can put one of those anti cast things over thier rug which stops the horse rolling over onto its back, I've not tried them but have heard they work.:)

[kunama]

Anti cast rollers on the rugs work but most people don't like to leave a scircingle done up that tight for long.

Banks serve 3 purposes, 1- stoping the horse getting cast

2- adding an extra layer of insulation between the walls and stoping draughts.

3- stopping the horse standing too close to the walls a catching thier knees and hocks.

Banks, in order to do these jobs should be solid come up to hock hight and be at a 45 degree angle to the wall.

If you want to save time and money try fitting two bits of pipeing to the wall, one at bed hight and one a bit smaller at hock hight.

:D

[Zingy]

I queried this with the guy I bought my rubber matting from. Answer was as follows:

"Horses get up the same side as they lay down on. The problem of getting cast arises in a stable when the horse tries to get up and can't because there isn't enough grip (moved bedding and end up on slippy concrete). Horse therefore rolls over in an attempt to get up the other side and gets too close to wall, getting cast.

With rubber matting this doesn't happen as the horse can't lose grip originally and therefore will not roll.

For the totally paranoid owner there are anti cast strips which are strips of rubber you put around the stable wall. Horse can get a grip on these and push themselves back over if they become cast. But they're unnecessary with rubber matting as the situation wouldn't arise. They're designed to be used with normal bedding to eliminate the need for banks (from a getting cast point of view)."

I've seen horses in the field roll and get up the opposite side to when they lay down, so I'm not sure that's strictly true, but few horses will realistically roll on rubber matting so it probably is true in this case (one of my ponies being an exception. He comes inside specifically to roll!).

[ponylover88]

...

[Drummers mum]

Banks, in order to do these jobs should be solid come up to hock hight and be at a 45 degree angle to the wall.
That sounds about right. If the banks aren't big enough, they are pointles anyway!

[NoviceNic]

Mine are on rubber matting and no bedding. Their stables are at least 13 x 13 and they have matting up the wall. My cob rolls as he is always a mess in the morning. :(

[Mossy]

http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/members/forums/index.php?showtopic=5178
Hopefully this will provide a link to a discussion that will justify your position.

[artemis]

I have rubber matting, shavings & no banks. I used to have banks, but my horse nearly stove out the back wall of the stable when she lay down. She has no finesse. The bck wall now has rising buttresses.:D

[notpoodle]

i had banks (shavings) last year ... angel seems to dig them down, anyway so i have given up now. her stable is very large (esp seeing shes so small!) though and we have rubber matting as well ...

julia
x

[Loopslou]

my friend turned her 16'1hh horse out in her indoor sandschool and he got cast in it, just lay down for a snooze, rolled, couldn't get a grip and got cast. He's never got cast in his stable though.

[oscars_grl]

i have mats down for my two horses but i still place a thick bed (shavings) down for them with high banks. one of my horses does like his sleep and lies down at night so he needs a thick bed so he doesnt get hurt. also if you use shavings, regardless if you have mats down or not, you should be able to drop your shavings fork in the bed and not here it twang! but it does cost!

[Kanuma]

ive had a pony get cast when i had banks in, now have mats with a sprinkleing of shaveings and for 2 years not a single pony cast!

[LouHarvey]

Banks are purely asthetic - they need to be massive to serve any real purpose. My horses have banks on their beds because I personally think it looks nicer and Harvey tends to use his for a pillow.
Using rubber matting without bedding makes for smelly, dirty horses who don't enjoy lying down. Shavings are best with rubber as they are absorbent, whilst still being warm and comfortable. Using straw with rubber matting is a ridiculous concept - it doesn't soak anything up, and just as well had not be there.
I also think rubber matting is just another money-grabbing fad - after all, horses have been domesticated for what, thirty-five million years? We managed up until now without rubber matting, I don't know why it's suddenly become a must-have.

[Kanuma]

i have show ponies they are in the night before a show on rubber matting with a sprinkleing of bedding, they come out the next morning just as clean as they went in, they lie down happily dont make a mess and it takes 5 mins to do each stable. sum of the routine is brush it all to the front and scoop it out! it also saves on bedding, i used to go through 3 bales of shaveings a week for 2 stables, now im lucky if i go through 2 a month!
there is no way my ponies are smelly or dirty! infact prides artheritis seems better with the rubber matting then with bedding

[artemis]

The reason I got matting was because my horse was scraping her hocks no matter how much bedding I put down. When I realised how much easier it was I got it for the others.

[*Sez*]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Thanks for the link, Mossy. Given how my parents muck out, I feel quite justified now in the sense of mould spores etc that can live in undistrubed banks. I'm not meant to muck out for medical reasons, but always end up sorting Salsa's box out several times a week, as they go in, throw out everything in the middle, whether it's dirty or clean and just fill the middle up with clean straw - the banks don't get touched unless I do it, even when I rant and rave about it :rolleyes: . From others posts, I can't see the banks I have doing anything to prevent him getting cast, and he'll soon have mats down as Jacob does. TBH, Jake is a fifteen hand heavy-weight cob, so he's a hefty lad but not huge. I know he lies down at night, but having looked at his stable rug, I'm not convinced he rolls in his box. I think I will continue as I have been, with minimal bed (as it seems daft to have spent a fortune on these mats which are meant to make mucking out easier to go and fill the stable with just as much bedding) and just keep an eye out. Thanks everyone for your other anti-cast suggestions - I will keep these in mind if I notice that one of the horses has taken to rolling (and as they always lie down in muck, their rugs should make it obvious!).

[Mossy]

I also think rubber matting is just another money-grabbing fad - after all, horses have been domesticated for what, thirty-five million years? We managed up until now without rubber matting, I don't know why it's suddenly become a must-have.

It is only recently that we have started stabling on concrete with bedding though. Prior to that it was earth. If you ask any vet about capped hocks and elbows due to bedding shoved out of the way and horse getting up from concrete, that is why folks use rubber mats as well as the time saving angle. Incidentally mine paid for themselves in the first year!