Roan or not Roan?

[Casey76]

Please see this thread http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70495 for photos thanks!

[Colorado Sunset]

I wouldnt have thought anything other than strawberry roan

[LCQH]

Agreed, looks Strawberry/Chestnut Roan.

[BeachRiding]

Def. Strawberry roan!

[chev]

Not roan!

She shows obvious roaning, but that doesn't make her a strawberry roan.

Roaning is a term used to describe the addition of white hair to the base colour. It happens in sabino patterning, and rabicano, in particular.

Roan (classic or true roan) is a different thing altogether. It's a particular coat pattern caused by a single dominant gene; the roan gene. The gene causes white hair to mix uniformly with the body colour, but does not add white to the head, mane, tail or legs, which remain undiluted. It also has odd characteristics like 'corn marks' - when a true roan is injured, hair grows back undiluted where on a solid horse it would grow back white. So a roan horse that's had cuts and grazes will have marks of dark hair with no white mixed in. They can vary wildly in appearance from season to season; some grow winter coats that show almost no roaning, but the effect is static; that is, they don't get more white as they get older.

This mare (especially in the second pic) shows typical sabino roaning - those patterns coming up from her belly, and the darker, less diluted areas are classic sabino markers. Rabicano can in its more extreme form also cause extensive roaning but it's nearly always confined to the back and quarters; the head, neck, and usually shoulders don't usually show much roaning at all.

This (http://www.equinecolor.com/roan.html) is a great page about roans; there are some good pics which show how the classic roan pattern is expressed.

This (http://www.arabpinto.com/purebred_stallions/images/snowy_r.htm) is sabino roan; very different in appearance to classic roan, and as you can see, much closer in appearance to the mare in the pic.

A classic roan must have at least one roan parent to pass the gene on; sabino roans, being governed by a much more complex set of genetics, tend not to breed true for their markings and often crop up where both parents are quite minimally marked.

So the answer is that no, she's not a classic roan. She has obvious sabino roaning; that could be hiding other genes (including classic roan! :rolleyes: ) but in appearance, no she's not strawberry roan at all. She's a sabino roan. Very striking looking one too.

[ambatt]

The horse in the second photo is a Purebred Arabian stallion - a breed where the roaning gene is thought not to exist although sabino is common.

I would have said she was rabicano - how does that differ from sabino roan colouring?

Another Arabian sabino roan:

http://public.fotki.com/meranch/ancpics/0xxxxxx/1xxxxx/116410.html

[chev]

Rabicano originates at the dock - often it's little more than a few white hairs at the dock or white striping on the tail. When it's more extreme and shows roaning too it tends to follow a kind of blanket pattern; often teh quarters are heavily roaned, with the white spreading up over the ribs, but there is normally less on the shoulder and the neck and head are normally unaffected by the roaning.

Sabino roaning nearly always has those characteristic patterns on the ribs, where there seem to be wide 'stripes' of heavily roaned areas spreading up from the belly coupled with areas with less roaning, where the base colour is deeper.

This mare could, of course, have more than one gene at work!

Another form of roan is varnish roan; part of the Appaloosa complex of patterns. That again shows extensive roaning that gradually takes over any other pattern or colour in the same way grey replaces colour over time.

[chev]

First picture of the top three on this page shows typical rabicano roaning - although the quarters are almost completely white, the forehand is mainly unaffected.

Roaning patterns (http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%20Colors/roan-ish_variations.htm)

[Casey76]

Thanks chev! *is smug* :p I was watching her move around the arena thinking "oooh what a pretty colour... I wonder how you would define that..." the comentator said "and isn't she pretty, we call that strawberry roan" And I'm thinking... nope!, cos her head and legs were also affected.

It's nice to know I've picked something up :D Colour and patterning is such a fascinating subject, and now I have my own coloured pone it's something I'm becoming more and more interested in:)

[LCQH]

I forgot about the Sabino pattern!
There's no roan in Sabino at all, it only looks roan, it's a different gene together.
Sabino coats are usually classified with a color to. (Bay sabino, sorrel/chestnut sabino, etc).

Here's my bay sabino guy, or is he Rabicano?..
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c376/LCQH/Gunsmokes%20Ace%20of%20Hearts/sniffingground.jpg

Here's a strawberry roan (found this in a Yahoo picture search):
http://www.icelandichorse.is/Raudlitforott.jpg

[roan rebel]

Liked the page about roans Chev :)

[TheHoglet]

strawberry roan i would say.
more ronier than mine
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e325/cobsrgood/skittsyhetton.jpg

[Colorado Sunset]

So, what colour is my favourite beasite Jamie?? He has black legs but a roan head...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Jo_525/Kingston/IMGP0207.jpg

Thanks,
Jo

[chev]

There's no roan in Sabino at all, it only looks roan, it's a different gene together.

Here's my bay sabino guy, or is he Rabicano?..
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c376/LCQH/Gunsmokes%20Ace%20of%20Hearts/sniffingground.jpg

Sabino can cause roaning though - the term roaning simply describes the addition of white hair evenly throughout the coat. Roaning is distinct from the roan gene, which is usually referred to as 'classic' or 'true' roan; that is where the white hair is not mixed in on teh head, legs, mane or tail.

Where there is extensive roaning caused by sabino the horse is often known as a sabino roan.

LCQH - your boy definitely has sabino there! Rabicano roaning originates at the top of the dock, so although it can spread white hair and roaning significantly from that point it won't cause the kind of roaning you see on your gelding's belly and sides. he may have rabicano too - he does seem from where I'm sitting to have white at the top of his tail... which could be part of his sabino colouring or the rabicano gene at work. Some Rabicano horses look similar to blanket Appaloosas in pattern; but rabicano won't cause white splashes or roaning on the belly like that unless there is also extensive roaning on teh hindquarters, when it can 'spread' to other areas of the body.