Catching problems - how best to resolve?

[Zingy]

Never had to deal with serious catching problems before, so I'm not sure how best to go about this.

May is being, to put it politely, a complete and utter swine about being caught :rolleyes: She'll happily follow me around in the field as long as I don't go to touch her if she doesn't want me to. If she decides, I can do whatever I want with her. If she decides not, she buggers off as soon as I look at her.

If I have a headcollar, almost certainly she does a disappearing act except for a few rare occasions (which thankfully so far have coincided with farriers, vets and dentist visits). Tried putting headcollar behind my back or in my pocket, but she just knows it's there!

I've tried walking her down but it's at least a 3 acre field and I'm doing it by myself. I've tried making her run, but I get out of breath sooner than she does (bonus is if I was going to exercise her I've done it already). Not caught her once from those tactics as she just gets more and more wound up. Today I got her in a small area as one of the fields has electric fencing up thinking she'd be easier to catch. She wasnt' easier to catch - she got stuck between 2 fences (at which point I did catch her, but not really what I'm aiming for). Took half an hour and some wire cutters to get her out after a phone call for some back up. I had visions of having to get the fire brigade out :rolleyes: She emerged completely unscathed and disappeared back down the field, having achieved her aim of not doing any work!

I've tried feed, but she won't come near me to eat if I have a lead rope or headcollar. If I don't she doesn't care less and will come over. Once eating I can do whatever I want with her and can carry on messing with her when she's finished - I spend 10 mins or so most nights leaning over her and flapping around both sides so that hopefully she won't be quite so quick to deposit me on the floor when I eventually ride her :D She just stands there! But she seems to see that interaction as totally separate to anything else. It's like the field is her space and I'm only allowed as near her as she dictates but in certain places in certain circumstances (feeding time) I'm more acceptable and allowed to be there and touch her.

The other 2 never run away from being caught and always let me go to them in the field so I was hoping by now she'd be doing the same. But I can get them both in and still not get near her. Most of the time she's welded to the pair of them but she doesn't rate their decisions on being caught too highly!

I'm just running out of ideas a bit. Tried clicker training but she wasn't interested in the slightest. Most of the time it's not the end of the world I can't catch her but I'm worried that I'll need to one day and won't be able to. If anything she's worse now she's in a bigger field over the winter than she was in the summer but I'm not prepared to restrict that until grass dictates I have to - she gets little enough grass and freedom over summer.

Chev - any miracle suggestions?! I think she's making the most of freedom and unlimited grazing :D Cow;) :D

[Ross]

MY sympathies - I had this with two of mine and it is sooo frustrating!

Mine were both kept in overnight and fed at the time (two separate times btw) - and both got left out overnight, with no feed. Both became easy to catch!

Ross

[~*sugarlump*~]

is she in a field on her own?
if so take a big rusly bag of mints and assorted treats with you. don't square your sholders, and don't look directly at them in the eyes. you could always try join up, that might help if you have the facilities.
if you always catch her to put her in her stable, then it isn't that suprising. catch her some of the time, tie her up and do a bit of grooming, give her some treats and make a fuss out of her. so she realises its not that bad
good luck

[horse91]

how about you take the head collar, while it is visible to her, and take a book or something and read it...she will come sooner or later, just ignore her. When she does come, make her wait a little (about 2-3min) and then try putting it on...if she runs away, do the same thing over and over again.

Some NH website gave my friend this reply when he had the same problem and it worked!

[redcedar]

i have had the same problem before with an old horse of mine and it can be frustraighting !

The way i sorted it was a combination of three ways.
1 : going to the feild at random times of the day and just petting the horses ( sometimes not the one with the catching problems) and going again and just repeating it tilll the horses hot used to the fact that i was coming to see them for no reason ! If every time you catchyour mare you work her/do something she finds hard or stressfulthen she will be warey of you catching her .

2: put the rope of the head collor (unatched) up my selve (headcollar in pocket/inside jacket ready) and rub and pet the horse and gently slip the rope round her neck. if she goes to run the little pressure of the rope may be enough to give up and stop her from going away , but if she does make a run for it up can just let the rope slide off her .

3: bring in her companions and ignor her , get some help and get tthe other person to start to take the other horses in , she will not want to be on her own so she may let you catch her. Make sure the other horses are in eye sight and not to far away otherwise you could panic her and the situation may become dangerous .

i hope these help a bit and you get some sucess with her soon !!

[Daffy Dilly]

Whenever I can't catch Daffy, ie he's running away from me, I just keep him running. I start by running after him, and then when I get knackered I'll throw mud at him. Normally I'll be able to catch him before having to resort to throwing mud.

[domane]

Whenever I can't catch Daffy, ie he's running away from me, I just keep him running. I start by running after him, and then when I get knackered I'll throw mud at him. Normally I'll be able to catch him before having to resort to throwing mud.

Mud??? REALLY????? :D Does that really work??? LOL

[Daffy Dilly]

Yeah. If he was unrugged I wouldn't do it obviously. But seen as he's all rugged up it wont make him any harder to brush. :D

I don't throw the wet mud, more the sticky/dry stuff depending on the weather. I consider it to be taking advantage of that "OMG, there's something flying straight at me! RUN!!!!" flight instinct all horses have. ;)

[Zingy]

Thanks guys :) Unfortunately she'll out-do me on most of those options :rolleyes: She's a stubborn little madam (never get a sec A mare :p )

Keeping her in I don't know if it would work, or modify it slightly to insist she's caught before she's fed. No catching = no feeding. I'll try it. I won't keep her in - she's too restricted on grazing most of the year so she's out over winter in the most space I can give her. Feeding time is the time I stand most chance of catching her anyway. Did you find your horses were easy to catch at other times of day after that Ross? Currently I'm allowed near her at feed times but not others so I might only be able to catch her in an evening!

Treats don't work, even when the others are being fed them. Buckets of feed at unusual times don't work either, even when the others come and eat :rolleyes:

If I take a book I'd finish it before any of my horses would come over! They seem to think if I want them I'll go and get them. Otherwise their job is to graze. I've worked in the field doing fencing/ poo picking etc for about 3 hours without them ever coming within about 100 yards :D

I see the horses at least once a day for no reason other than to make sure they still have 4 legs so it's not as if there's any expectation to work. Sometimes I'm allowed to touch her, sometimes not.

Leadrope up my coat might work - hadn't thought of that. Will try it as sometimes I can get my arm around her neck (but again, sometimes not).

Taking the others out of the field doesn't worry her. She'll just graze and keep her distance. Occasionally I can catch her if she sees the others tied up but she really doesn't bother much about being on her own.

Running after her stresses her out. Throwing anything at her would make you a really bad person she shouldn't go anywhere near, so doing anything like that reinforces her opinion that she shouldn't be caught.

You can see why I'm having problems! It feels like the normal solutions don't really work :rolleyes: On the plus side, I got a headcollar on her tonight halfway through tea. But she wouldn't come and eat until I walked away from her bucket when I first fed her as I had a headcollar in my hand. Had to sneak up on her later. I just can't see how doing that will progress to catching whenever I want.

[chev]

Little bugger. She did this once before when her eye was bad and she got sick of being caught to have cream in it (don't blame her either). I walked her down that time. Didn't chase her; like you say, get confrontational about it and she won't let you anywahere near her at all; but if you just plod after her with this kind of 'ok, we're going to cover as many miles as you want, slowly and steadily' sort of attitude she does just stop and give up. And it did take me nearly six hours of walking... The leadrope round the neck works wonders; when she's being silly about headcollars she will usually just stand while you hold her with a rope round her neck and get a headcollar on.

With May it is just a matter of patience and quiet determination I'm afraid.

I'll lend you a child; the worst thing about her was that when she did get silly about it any one of my kids could walk right up and grab her with no hassle at all. :rolleyes:

The normal solutions don't work with May. She doesn't care if she's on her own, she's won't be bribed, and you can live in the field with a whole library and she won't be fooled.

If she's coming over when she can't see rope, sneak up on her when you get the chance with it. Once caught, turn her out in a headcollar (I used a fly-free link on her but a fieldafe would do the same job). She's pretty easy to get hold of then; and she does usually then give up after a few days.

[Yann]

Are you using the right variations in body language / eye contact etc with her when you try? I think you're up on all that stuff aren't you? :)

I recently did some work with one of my yard owner's ponies, who has always been a terminally bad catcher and is also very stressed by being sent away. It did help that I was going in the field morning and night to get someone else so I never had an agenda, and I didn't have a track record with him either. To start with I just spent a few minutes going near enough to get his attention and then walking away, and progressed to being able give him a treat and move away, which in his case was a very nice thing. Is there nothing she really likes as a titbit? From there I progressed to touching him on the shoulder, which developed quite quickly to being able to touch him on the neck and then all over and even pick his feet up. When I eventually produced a headcollar he wasn't in the slightest bit bothered, but I didn't catch him to bring for a couple of days, and when I did it was to a bucket just outside the field and then turned him straight back out.

I also spent some time in the field doing approach and retreat when he changed his mind about being caught again, not sending away vigorously, just approaching closely enough to get his attention and then going passive and moving away before he moved. If he did move off I'd just stick with him and then if he stopped I'd again go passive and step away a few strides and try and draw him, but low key all the time. The thing that really cracked it with him was crouching down, once I did that it took all the threat out of the situation for him and he came straight to me. It might not work with May but it's worth a try perhaps, maybe going below their eye level helps?

Just set small goals and don't try and do too much at once, it's frustrating and somehow personal when your own horse clears off, got the T shirt there:D Good luck :)

PS. Just to add that this pony now makes a bee line for me every time I go in the field and his owners can catch him no problem too, perhaps spring grass will change this, only time will tell :)

[fiesty_filly]

It takes a lot of patience and time for a bad to catch horse. Unfortunately mares can really be cows sometimes. I haven't had the same trouble with geldings. Solitary confinement will usually do them in, but that's usually not an option. Sometimes having a leather halter that you can just leave on works better, but you may end up losing a lot of halters.

We have a mare that is a nightmare to catch. It is almost impossible to catch her, you would think she was a feral horse, but she is far from it. She was fine until she was used as a broodmare but ever since then she seems to have decided that she likes the herd life better than work.

[Dummer&Drummer]

try leaving its head collar on - i used to have this problem and from the time i left his head collar on, if he does not come up to great me in his field to be caught he'll stand still whilst i clip on the lead rope - this was an instant transformation over night and still working 8 months down the line on a daily basis :)

[Guest]

G is either waiting by the gate for his dinner so easy to catch or he's eating so in other words not a chance in hell.
He kicks if he doesn't want to come in, this weekend was the first time in ages I've actually approached him in the field and he did go to turn his bum on me but I caught hold of his neck cover and the funny thing is as soon as you have him he gives up. Little bu***r, I'm predicting big problems in the spring.

[Zingy]

it did take me nearly six hours of walking...


:eek: :eek: I'll wait until summer for that one :D

I've got a fieldsafe (Yog size so I'll need to shrink it!) which I'll put on her for a while to make life a bit easier.

Yann, I think you might just have hit on the solution :) I've been doing the head down, shoulders rounded walking sideways up to her shoulder then moving away before her but she's read that book and knows what I'm up to :rolleyes: But tonight I tried kneeling down and crawling :o Luckily I trust them not to run me over. I'm not sure if she was confused or was wetting herself laughing at me (it is v muddy), but she didn't move :D Hopefully that and a few treats will work. She does love treats but won't come for them if she thinks you're up to something, plus they make Yog crib so I've always kept them to the minimum. At least if I can see progress though it makes me feel better so it's worth a go!

If all else fails I'll have to borrow a child. Chev, can we just add Freya to the loan agreement for a couple of weeks? :D

[Yann]

Glad I was some help, makes a change:D What I did with his lordship to start with was to get him to take a treat at arms length and then immediately get up and walk away for a few paces and then crouch down again, eventually I could keep doing it and he'd get bolder, keep coming and then came in closer. Eventually I was able to progress to touching him.

Just one other thing, do you approach the shoulder directly or use gradually diminishing arcs from 9 to 3? Using arcs and stepping away when you get attention or they look like they're going to go can be more effective if not :)

[Pink's lady]

But tonight I tried kneeling down and crawling............. I'm not sure if she was confused or was wetting herself laughing at me (it is v muddy),

She might not have been, but I certainly am ROFLOL :D

I can sympathise. Kim used to the biggest bugger to catch - took me 3 hours once :eek: Usually I just ran her down, as i was fitter than her (thank god) ;) Now she's a star and comes up the field to meet me. :D Thats what retirement does for you.

No useful hints, other than putting a headcollor on her. And possibly building a n electric fence pen to herd her into. We used to herd Kim into the 60x40 bit that was fenced off as a school, at which point she just gave up.

[Zingy]

Just one other thing, do you approach the shoulder directly or use gradually diminishing arcs from 9 to 3? Using arcs and stepping away when you get attention or they look like they're going to go can be more effective if not :)

:confused: blonde moment! 9 to 3?

Answer to that is possibly. If that means kind of going towards her but on a circle with my closest point to her being with her shoulder (if that makes sense), then moving away before she does. I kept hoping she'd follow - she's certainly interested and it's simple enough to get her attention but she rarely actually latched on and came with me. Best I can normally hope for is that I'm the one to move away from her which I can normally manage. Her personal space doesn't seem to be getting smaller that way though and I'm still not allowed to get very close.

I've always gone towards her from the front. Does it work any better from the back or does it not matter?

Some of this is making sense a bit more now though. She's better with me crouching - or was tonight. And she's ok with kids going up to her. She's also a very submissive mare - well below the geldings in the pecking order and one of them is younger and smaller than her (and generally submissive to mares). So it could be a dominance thing where she feels too threatened for whatever reason. Got the same thing with one of my dogs where if anyone wants to say hello they have to kneel down as she hates people towering over her. So given May is only 11.2, adults are a lot taller than she is, so maybe that's the problem.

[Yann]

blonde moment! 9 to 3?

Sorry, think of the horses' nose as 12 o'clock and start the approach at whatever distance doesn't cause any concern by walking on a half circle starting level or ahead of one shoulder, say 9 or 10 o'clock. You aren't walking towards her but keeping a set distance away, walk through 12 o'clock towards 3, maybe pause and then repeat in the other direction. You can very gradually bring the circle in and get closer this way in a very gradual and unthreatening manner. Sounded a bit silly when I read it in a book but really think 'relaxed and not at all bothered' and throw the odd sigh and long pointless pause in, it does seem to help.

Being below the eyeline does seem to make a big difference, it must be difficult when everyone and everything towers above you all the time :) If you can get close enough to crouch and then have her take a treat then you'll have made a start. And don't forget, no eye contact at all :)

[Yann]

PS. Approaching from behind is where the lions and tigers come from, so not a good idea :)

[chev]

She's also a very submissive mare - well below the geldings in the pecking order and one of them is younger and smaller than her (and generally submissive to mares). So it could be a dominance thing where she feels too threatened for whatever reason. Got the same thing with one of my dogs where if anyone wants to say hello they have to kneel down as she hates people towering over her. So given May is only 11.2, adults are a lot taller than she is, so maybe that's the problem.

She is the most submissive pony I've ever met. Given that the only other time I had problems with her was when she did her eye in and was basically made to submit to treatment she found painful and stressful, it would make sense that the dominance thing is going to be an even bigger issue with her.

Don't forget as well that she has odd vision in that eye; so what might not ordinarily be threatening could well be a lot more so to her. Have you tried approaching from the offside? I did find that she was a lot happier about me getting on from the offside, presumably where her vision is clear and I was obviously me and not some cloudy shadowy threat she couldn't clearly see.

[chev]

Chev, can we just add Freya to the loan agreement for a couple of weeks? :D

Oh YES! :thanks the Lord for answering her prayers: She's on the next bus up to you! :D



(I do love her really....)

[Zingy]

Oh YES! :thanks the Lord for answering her prayers: She's on the next bus up to you! :D



(I do love her really....)

Should I expect her around Easter then given the reliability of buses? ;)

She was better again today - mugged me for an apple this morning which she ate with my arm over her neck, happily had her bum scratched tonight and came to me when offered a bucket to clean out.

I must try her other side more as I automatically walk up to her nearside. She seems so not bothered with that eye the rest of the time I admit I forget about it :o

We'll get there eventually. Good to have the suggestions though. It's so demoralising when they don't want to come anywhere near you for days!

[Zingy]

Progress! Only took 10 mins to catch her this morning with headcollar in full view. So she had 10 mins of cantering and trotting ;) followed by a walk down the road for half an hour.

Got some photos as well which I'll post later :)

[Yann]

Yay! Well done :) I'm sure it'll only get quicker now... how did you go about it in the end?

[Zingy]

I hope so Yann. Done lots with her in the mornings during the week with treats and getting her to come to me which she was fine with. They've generally been in sleeping this week which has helped as she's been stood where they get fed and she's more comfortable with that than me going to her in the middle of the field. I think partly why she's decided she can dictate what happens with catching is that 5 times a week if she walks away nothing happens - she'll often walk away from me in the mornings and I haven't got the time to see anything through at that stage. I don't think being 3 hours late for work with the excuse of "well, my pony walked off and it's taken me this long to catch her" would go down well!

Today she was in the middle of the field and was wary but let me touch her before disappearing. Then she went into her 'not being caught' mode, but it was quite half hearted. I tried the arcs but she ran off every time I moved even though I was miles away from her, so I took a risk on walking her down. Fingers crossed it wouldn't beat Chev's record! She gave up within 10 minutes which was quite surprising, then stood there while I faffed with the headcollar which was tangled up with the leadrope :rolleyes: She doesn't try to get away once she's decided to be caught - she had ample opportunity but didn't take it. We'll now see what tomorrow brings :o before I get too excited!

[chev]

Sounds like you've cracked it. She does sometimes stalk off (doesn't she pull some lovely faces when she does?! :D ) but I've never had to follow her for more than five or ten minutes, and that giving up and waiting for you to collar her does sound like what she did with us occasionally.

Yay! Well done! :D

(Does this mean I'm stuck with Freya after all then? :rolleyes: )