Ulcers

[Tootsie4U]

What would be symptoms of stomach ulcers?

New horse is no longer finishing his grain. He barely touches his hay. Its strewn about his stall each morning. He gets more use out of it as bedding than he does for nutrition.

We've had problems keeping weight on him all winter (previous owner said she had big problems with him as well) and can't afford to have him not eat his meals.

Any ideas?

Hay quality is fine, same with grain. His teeth are scheduled to get done with his spring shots but he's not overdue for them. From what I can tell, he doesn't have any obvious problems with his choppers.

[Jessey]

Maybe he's just not a big eater, could you try something that has more calories per pound so you could feed less of it?

http://www.gopetsamerica.com/horse/health-care/equine-ulcer.aspx

I have recently put my old boy on a probiotic, he was constantly pooping down his legs (said to have been caused by worm damage years ago but no evidance) and very stressy and lathargic, his tummy has now totally cleared up, he is eating better and he is lively as hell :)

J x

[KarinUS]

Have you already been able to correct the problem with them fighting over the partition at feeding time or could that still be cause of stress?

How do you feel about natural remedies (http://www.holistichorsekeeping.com/articles/ulcer2.html)? Do you prefer a pharmaceutical approach?
You could try Slippery Elm and Aloe in a syringe before feeding until his tummy feels better. Then just the Aloe to soak the grain as a maintenance thing. If he responds great. If he doesn't it won't harm him or overmedicate him either.

[Tootsie4U]

Thanks to you both.

If I feed Bonfire first, they dont fight. Bon isnt the dominant one, so technically Im violating the horsey rule, but it works. My father is being a little lax on getting the grill to me. (he makes barn equipment)

Fella is very interested in his food (grain) but on random days I find half of it left in his bin. Without fail, every morning this week and sparatically the past few weeks, he has barely touched his hay. The hay they're given in turnout is completely gone by the time I come home, but I suspect porky Bonfire is eating more than his share.

Could he have gotten ulcers since the weekend when they weren't given any hay?


Karin, where would I be able to find the homeo stuff?

[KarinUS]

Check out the above link first and see if it fits you.
As far as the homeo stuff goes it's been a long-term thing for us so I've been doing it on a budget... ;)
I get the Slippery Elm Bark powder from http://www.herbnhorse.com/ or their sister company http://www.herbalcom.com/ if I order stuff for myself (right now I am trying to be good about drinking Raspberry Leave Tea, etc.).
I get the aloe juice from Walmart. Here they carry the 'Fruit of the Earth' brand which I like because it's made from the inner leave only (the skin has aloin in it so if you get whole leave stuff it's got to be filtered which also filters out a lot of the good stuff)

[Zingy]

If there is any stomach irritation, one of the best things you can do is cut out grain completely and switch to fibre based feeds. It might seem that the grain is what's keeping weight on, but if it's reducing what he eats, it will probably be doing more harm than good.

You're obviously feeding hay (or trying to!) - rather than grain feed I'd be tempted to go with unmolassed sugar beet. I've found a huge difference with my horse by cutting out grain and, as far as possible, sugar. Feeding either of those means he will spend literally hours cribbing afterwards (it was usual for him to crib non-stop for at least 2 hours after a feed). Now, he rarely does it at all, so obviously the discomfort has reduced quite considerably. He's kept weight on brilliantly this winter, despite less feed, when normally the weight drops off no matter what.

Definitely worth a try imo :)

[KarinUS]

Made the same observation as Zingy- although I posted so often about it it's probably getting old... :p
At the boarding barn they gave him 8 pounds of grain per day and he looked horrible. Lost weight, cribbed like crazy, etc.
Once I brought him home I started beet pulp with a tiny amount of Safe Choice (low starch) and flax soaked with the aloe; made sure he always has access to good hay and voila- gains weight, cribs less, looks awesome. :)
He still has flare ups though every once in a while and those we treat pretty successfully with the elm/aloe.

[kedwards]

I'd consider adding oil, something like corn or rice oil with a high omega 6 fatty acid content. It is inexpensive, adds calories without heating up horses, and has been shown to reduce the potential for ulcer development.

[KarinUS]

Really? I haven't had much luck with regular oil/Omega 6. DJ is doing much better on a more balanced source of fat (Omega 3 and Omega 6) like flax seed.
Here's a little blib (http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/Omega6FattyAcidscs.html) on it (with views supporting both).

[Tootsie4U]

I've been watching closer since I initially posted this.

It seems he isnt eating his beet pulp (mollassed). All his hay pellets, rice bran and sweet feed is gone. Still, he's barely touching the hay.

Fella gets per day

two quarts soaked beet pulp (2 quarts without water added)
one quart hay pellet
two to three pounds of rice bran
two quarts sweet feed
about one bale of hay a day (40 lbs)

would that be too hard on his tummy?

[KarinUS]

How many pounds is a quart of sweet feed?

How does he manage to separate the pulp from teh other ingredients? He must have great tongue skills! :o

[KarinUS]

I just looked up the average.
1qt of sweet feed should be about 1.5 pounds.
So he gets 3 pounds of sweet feed and 3 pounds of rice bran (http://www.shady-acres.com/susan/ricebran.shtml) a day?
6 pounds of grain would be waaaayyyy too much for DJ. In fact he doesn't get more than 2 1/2 pounds of low starch pellets a day. He keeps his weight on and stays sane much better on more forage.
With that much grain perhaps he simply doesn't feel hungry enough to eat the fiber- in addition to any possible tummy problem?

[Tootsie4U]

LoL! We mix his BP in a seperate feed bucket and when hubby gives the breakfast feed, he dumps the BP on the bottom and covers it with the other stuff. I've been mixing it at night when I feed them dinner and I think he's eating it. Not sure if he's eating it all at once or snacking on it through the night though. Most of it is gone by the morning says Hubby, although some is still left in the corners.

Im not sure what the weight is. I need to buy a scale. I would *guess* its somewhere around 2 lbs. I use it just to flavor his feed. His previous owner suggested it and said thats all they ever gave him.

[Tootsie4U]

Its the best pics I have to show the difference, but you can see how much weight he dropped this fall. I'd say he's slightly better than the under saddle pic (btw, the under saddle pic is probably the worst he's been since I've had him). Previous owner visited him a few weeks ago and said he does this (drop weight) - she actually thought he looked *better* than he usually does in the winter. I hope she was just being polite because I think he's very skinny.

SUMMER http://www.mypetpages.net/index.php?getpage=fullsizeImage&artist_id=1926&image_id=65046

and ANOTHER SUMMER http://www.mypetpages.net/index.php?getpage=fullsizeImage&artist_id=1926&image_id=68538

FALL http://www.mypetpages.net/index.php?getpage=fullsizeImage&artist_id=1926&image_id=83864


I can try leaving the sweet feed out but like I said it might be the only flavoring he has that entices him to eat. Additionally, I worry that he'll then get TOO skinny and winter isnt even at its worst yet...

whatdya think Karin?