Trying to get motivated...

[Tootsie4U]

The bug is starting to bite again, I find myself daydreaming about a nice canter or one of those stick of dynamite trots. You know the feeling...

So, I vow to have Bonfire out to a Morgan show within a years time. Despite the lengthy break, he's surprised me and has been very good under saddle (for the two/three times I've ridden him in all of 2005 :rolleyes: ). I dont expect having a huge issue with getting him going again.

That leads me to this question; based on the photos below - which discipline do you think he's better suited for? Keep in mind I aim to show him strictly in his breed (but will need to practice in some open shows). I'll try to also attach some photos of other Morgans showing in the different disciplines to use as reference. I enjoy dressage, but have no qualms showing him hunter either. We're hoping to have another baby so I need to really get working on this before I get all preggo again!

Thanks for the input.


In a fairly typical *dressage* frame http://www.newrider.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14577&d=1087405085


In a more typically hunter frame

[cvb]

Tootsie

is the preparation for either of those really going to be a big difference ? You could work on the foundation stuff and decide later when you see some schedules and so on.

I hate hanging around so don't tend to "show" - thats why we do dressage instead - give me a time to work to ;) (even if the run late, you still have an idea of running order so can be prepared).

[Tootsie4U]

I'll try to also attach some photos of other Morgans showing in the different disciplines to use as reference.

I believe I have better on the other computer, but here's some anyway. Please keep in mind that these photos are horses competing from an A rated Morgan show - they're showing at levels higher than what we'd be going in at :D


From what I can see, he is not high headed enough for either! :o

First two pics are dressage, last two hunter

[Tootsie4U]

You can say that again cvb! I've been so frazzled at the hunter shows because classes get skipped or combined and you haven't a clue at what time you're showing!

Anyway, being that Im a tad OCD - I do need the focus of choosing one discipline IF we are to do this at least half seriously. As you can see, I'll need to really work on getting him to carry himself in a way he's not used to.

[cvb]

From what I can see, he is not high headed enough for either!

Jeez Tootsie - if I compare Fifi to one of Nicole Uphoff, or Carl Hester or... one of their horses I might just see some differences ! :rolleyes:

Your pictures of Bon simply show a more novicey way of going...

I may not know what the levels in US dressage are, but I know they HAVE levels...

how about setting yourself a benchmark which WON'T depress you from the start :p

[Tootsie4U]

Yes, mum! :p

[KateWooten]

I agree totally - do both ! Since you'll be working anyway on collection, suppleness, etc whenever you ride him, you might just as well go test all that out in the dressage ring ... and he's so pretty as a hunter - and you get to jump too :) I'd be taking him to events as well - I bet he's great fun over a cross-country course.

You two look so great together, just go do everything and have a blast ( i.e. get off your butt and get motivated you've got a really beautiful horse there and it's just about Spring again :) )

[cvb]

ok - tried to find some reasonable normal prelim dressage photos online and of course most obvious ones are all "finals" at region/nation level

but found these...
http://www.phillipsphotography.co.uk/gallery/page751.html

[Mehitabel]

how about some reasonable normal unafflicted novice dressage? (second level of easiness, and please ignore my hands in the second picture.)
http://historicalfact.com/~es/pony%20pictures/dressage1.jpg
http://historicalfact.com/~es/pony%20pictures/dressage2.jpg
http://historicalfact.com/~es/pony%20pictures/dressage3.jpg
http://historicalfact.com/~es/pony%20pictures/dressage4.jpg

[Tootsie4U]

I bet he's great fun over a cross-country course.

:D:D It'd be much easier standing myself in front of a firing squad. Death would be much less painful :D Kidding - He lacks confidence for that job! Thanks for the nice compliments! He is a gorgeous Morgan and really deserves to show off his talents.

So how do the dressage levels go over there again?

My best bet then would be to take him the dressage route first?

[Mehitabel]

over here, it's preliminary (prelim) -the hardest thing in these is a 20m circle in canter. then novice, which adds medium trot, some tricker school movements, but still doable. my third ever dressage test was a novice - i do them both. then elementary, then medium, and then really posh.
bon when i rode him last year would have done a prelim no toruble, and probably a novice with a few sessions preparation.

[cvb]

Anyway, being that Im a tad OCD - I do need the focus of choosing one discipline IF we are to do this at least half seriously. As you can see, I'll need to really work on getting him to carry himself in a way he's not used to.

well one of the reasons I choose dressage (other than the faff of showing) is that I get quantatitive feedback. Of course the comments depend on the judge, and vary in quality, but at least I can see whether we are improving or not.

My issue with showing is that I wouldn't know from show to show what we needed to improve on, and whether we were doing that or not. But then, I'm not a "beauty parade" kind of person... ;) I know there IS quantative judging on conformation, fitness for class etc, but different people will "weight" those views differently, and you don't get a score sheet at the end of the day..

but thats me and MY obsessive nature :p

[Jessey]

Train for dressage, then all the long and low dressage work you have been doing, will set you up perfectly for hunter!!!
I don't really see there is much difference, dressage is just riding well to a pattern so they can compare you all on the same manoeuvres and hunter is just riding well with the odd jump thrown in - right....? :)

J x

[KarinUS]

I think there are even Hunter flat classes. :)
But don't the Hunter Flat classes have bunches of other horses/riders in the ring at the same time? How would he cope with that?

Something I always wondered and you can give some insight on: Why do people prefer breed shows? Wouldn't it be more fun to ride (and win) against all kinds of horses rather than compete only with Morgans? The Arabian breed shows are big here for example.

[cvb]

Karin

I think its cos the playing field is level - and you are not being judged by people who think, for example, "what is that spotty beast doing in my dressage arena !" :mad:

Actually in Uk the prejudice is probably not as bad as it used to be - used to be coloured horses were "gypsy horses" and looked down on. But anything that is not a warmblood does seem to need to do more :(

[Tootsie4U]

He's shown in open hunter before - I think there were 12 of us going at one time in a fairly small dressage sized indoor. He was fine - even in the hand gallop part! I thought he would have been frazzled, but he wasnt.

Karin, Im dead set on breed shows for the specific reason cvb says. I worked at a uppity dressage barn for four years and was 'privledged' to scribe with some of the better known USDF judges. My mind was made up (against open shows) when one of these judges placed a tie based ONLY on the color of the horse. She also made another comment later that day along the lines of "Give me a big chestnut WB and I'll place him every time!" Why would I take my plain bay, 15.2 Morgan into her ring? Winning isnt everything, but I wont accept an unequal playing field. He deserves to be recognized for his true talents and I'll take him to a judge who will appreciate him for what he is. I figure my best chances for that are at Morgan shows.

[KarinUS]

I see. Makes sense. But then all of them will have gorgeous manes and tails like Bon. :)

[CityGirl]

Toots is right - breed prejudice is alive & well here in the states, esp in hunters and dressage. And with Bon being a non-traditional breed....well, it would be tough.

Toots, he's gorgeous. I don't have a clue what Morgan shows are like though so can't give you any advice. Maybe ask around at some shows - see what the judges are pinning and go from there?

[KateWooten]

Do both and the heck with the judges - for sure they're biased in dressage, and they're at least twice as biased in hunters :) The whole thing stinks if you take it too seriously (ask my two - the little arab x QH will never do anything in dressage cos he carries his tail too high, and the arab x saddlebred - well, apart from being bay, no 'hunter' judge would have one good thing to say about her, even if she could gallop all day and jump the highest hedges and ditches) but that's the US for you - gotta love 'em.

[Torny]

Hi, Not had chance to read all messages but just incase anyone has not said:

The little thumbnail piccy on your first post......... If you want to compete, I would quickly get your lovely horse bonfire off the forehand.

I hope you have the chance to show and have much success!

[Tootsie4U]

Is he? I've been staring at the photo (and going cross-eyed:D) and can't quite tell. There was a divot in that corner of the arena (honest) and not sure if thats playing some trick photography...

[cvb]

Tootsie

If you had to draw an arrow that showed where the energy was going, where would it point to ?

If you imagine him like a horizontal hour glass, which half has more "sand" in it ? or as one of those wighing scales where you put the weights on one side and what you want to weigh on the other - where would it be sitting ?

Bear in mind that horses naturally carry about 60% of their weight on their forehand and that we change that through how we ride and train them - the more advanced horses are capable of moving more to their hindquarters than a less advanced less fit horse.

[cvb]

useful info
http://cvm.msu.edu/dressage/articles/mcrep/mcrep10.htm

[Tootsie4U]

Got the physiological stuff.

I remember that in that pic I was focusing on getting him longer and lower for the upcoming hunt show - hard to do since he's so naturally high headed (Morgan, and all...). So it'd make sense that he'd be carrying more up front as he wasnt used to it. But I still can't plainly see if he is actually OTF. If you straighten out the photo, he looks completely flat and even to me.

I'll take your word for it though.. I could just be blinded by love too :D

[Torny]

I hope you are not offended :( I was only quickly surfing trough and saw yee wee piccy.

I don't know what others think, but I do feel you need to get Bonfire back those haunces of his. :o
He may how ever..... have just fallen on the forehand as you introduced longer and lower work. This is because you are asking the horse to stretch his frame, yet still work from behind and in balance. Some horses do fall onto the forehand with this lower work, this is inbalance and can easily be worked on. :p

Best Wishes
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