Andalusian Mare - Trouble Mounting

[AndalusianSara]

I recently bought a 15h Andalusian Mare she is absolutely gorgeous. I understand that coming from Spain she has had to adapt to the way we do things over here. Shes slowly progressing and shes off to be rebroken 'our way' at the end of Feb.
My main problem with her is when mounting. I always mount from the ground not a block.
I'll ask her to stand which she does but as soon as i approach her shoulder and gather the reins she takes several quick steps backwards until im infront of her head again. If i do not gather the reins and just move to her shoulder as soon as i take the stirrup into my hand she goes backwards and spins in tight circles. Im able to get on with a show but its just hard to break her habits. She also likes to jog off once on. Shes no patience, in fact everything she does is at top speed! Her falt work, even hacking outs a race agaisnt time and her jumpings also extremely rushed but shes very bold.
Any ideas?
Ive also tried positioning her in front of a fence/gate so she cant go backwards -so she'll go sideways, fences either side - she goes forward of backwards etc But this is really solving the problem is it. The main problem is im by myself alot of the time.
Please Help if you can!

[KateWooten]

I would refrain from riding her for a couple of weeks until you've got your baseline of expected behaviour established. I think we expect a lot from horses when we move them between owners - and between cultures ! Give her time.

I don't think she is keyed into your body language yet. She doesn't know when your approach means 'stay here I'm just working round you' and when it means 'step out of my space smartly' - you two are just not speaking the same language yet.

Try this : in just a rope halter and lead, have her stand and face you (do this in a safe area - an arena, small paddock, round pen etc.) Just stand there looking at the ground in front of her. If she goes to move away, a little tug on the rope should bring her back to you - perhaps a word 'Oi!' perhaps a wave of your hand - whatever - a little commotion on your part. Then, as soon as you have her two eyes on you, exhale, go really quiet, relax your shoulders, and stand gazing at the ground again. You are telling her 'not everything I say means move'.

Next stand at her hip facing forward. Drape one arm over her hip. Hold the rope up to her withers, and put a little pressure on it. You are wanting her to flex round and put her nose on her side about where the girth would be. She might only turn a very little way at first. Don't pull her head round. Just as soon as she gives you a little try, release the rope and pet her. You are telling her 'somtimes I'm asking you to do something, but you don't always have to move your feet'. Repeat this daily for several minutes. It's a wonderful softening exercise.

When she's flexing easily from both sides on the ground, before you mount up next time, flex for a couple of minutes both side. You are telling her 'this mounting up exercise is no different to anything else we do - you just stand there and flex'.

When you do get on her again, the very first thing you should do is flex from one side to the other for a couple of minutes. You are telling her 'even when we ride, I don't always need you to move your feet'. Then get off her and put her away.

These are important baselines to communication and it is worth taking the time to establish them. She feels rushed, and probably so do you. Don't get on a horse that is not standing still, calmly. In a sense, what you need to do is 'start her' (I don't like the term 'breaking' ) your way ! Not even the english way - but your personal way ! So you know that you and she are understanding each other. The best way to do this is on the ground, jus as you would an unbroken youngster. It goes along much much quicker with an older alredy broke horse, since she already knows what to do, she just needs to get used to your 'accent' and you to hers.

Kate

[Shadowlark]

For some dancy upity horses the problem may be saddle fit - past and or present IF she associates you getting on with pain/discomfort from the saddle it would cause her to tap dance and present avoidance behaviours.

I would suggest getting this issue resolved by using a mounting block of some sort. We as humans can get on in a much gentler fashion using a block and move our weight easier without as much strain - when she gets better then go back to mounting from the ground. Also there is no shame in getting someone to hold her for you - helping her to learn that if she stands still and minds herself it will be over and you can be away faster!

I do second all the above tho - this horse has been through a lot of change and some down time would probably really help her to settle in. Horses don't like change to begin with - and she has seen a LOT of it in a short period. Lower your expectations and build a bond on the ground. Pick yourself up a book no natural horsemanship or other such bonding books to help you both learn about one another!

All the best, I look forward to seeing pictures of her in the future

[Bay Mare]

I agree with Kate, give her time to settle down. She may not need 'rebreaking' (am a bit confused about that ... maybe you could tell us more :) ) but just needs time to get to know you, get to know her environment, other horses etc.

When you do come to mount I agree to get a mounting block. Wherever possible I think that we should use a mounting block, it's kinder on our horses and it's kinder on our saddles!

With regards to the actual 'act' of mounting I found that breaking it down into separate bits helped me enormously. My mare would swing her back end away from you when you tried to get on (because she had been booted in the belly to stand still :rolleyes: ), I could get on from the 'wrong' side but she wouldn't let me on from the 'normal' side. The way I was taught to deal with it was to stand by her shoulder and put my hand on her withers. If she stood still I took my hand off and gave her a pat and a 'good girl'. Then you can pick up the reins, then progress to putting a foot in the stirrup (but not getting on), then pick up the reins and put the foot in the stirrup and so on (might be in the wrong order but you get what I mean about breaking it down). When you finally manage to get on (it may take a few sessions) without a hassle then walk a few strides and dismount (the reward), then do it again.

It's the same with a horse that moves off when your butt hits the saddle, it's about patience and rewarding a 'try'. So even if she only stands still for a nanosecond be quick to reward. It could be that previous riders have landed 'smack' in the saddle and straight away kicked on. It could be what she's been taught to do.

My mare isn't 100% yet but I can get on her without an issue most of the time and she will stand still now (hooray). The occasional time that she does try to move away she always gets it right on the second go :)

Good luck x

[KateWooten]

By 'restarting' or 'rebreaking', I just mean that when one person starts a horse they have 2 main aims : 1) establish themself as a 'leader' in that horse's mind, and 2) go on to teach the horse all the different cues and behaviours they are expected to know - no matter which human goes on to give the horse these cues in the future.

Well, if I have to get on and deal with a new horse, even if he's 'well broke' there is a possibility for holes in his education / gaps in my education / slight discrepancies between how he was taught and how I was taught ... so, I find it quicker and less painful all round to start again from the beginning, just as you would with an unstarted colt. For example - introducing an unbroken colt to a saddle may take days or weeks, for a well-broke horse, it might take less than a second.... BUT I'm still looking for the same signs from the horse that he's ready for the saddle. I'm still watching him, observing him, moving around him in such a way as to establish myself as his good leader, and checking that he's understood and is OK with that.

Nobody would throw a saddle on an unbroke colt, climb on and see how he goes. I wouldn't do that with an unknown horse either - no matter what the owner told me. I work with the horse from the ground until I'm pretty sure what his attitude is. There would be things I was looking for from him, that woud be saying 'yes, I am ready for this'. So, I would be asking him if he would move back out of my space, start and stop when I did while leading, whether he would step over a tarp, would he trot round a little circle or two willingly - that sort of thing.

By 'restarting' the horse each time, I guess I mean I would run through every exercise I would expect to practice with a young horse, to check that we're both on the same page, before I think of getting on him. To me, that's just the polite thing to do !

[BNaturally]

You should start with the basic of ground training and teach her when, where and how to move her feet and when to stop her feet.

You have to understand that you must gain control of all body parts to move over here and over there and walk this way and trot that way, slow down over here and stop over there and backup over here.

Communicating your intentions clearly, consistantly, and when your horse notices and understand these requests and perform them correctly, then you will be able to request her to stand over here, so you can mount and ride her.

When we don't establish our role as the Alpha, this allow our horses to dominate us and we're just turning over control to our horses.

Establish real control, respect, trust and leadership and your horse will become a willing partner to comply with your every request.

Be fair, patient, clear, consistant with your requests.

I hope this helps.

[Santi]

My welsh mare was broken by a dealer at 11, she rides ok but had no idea about what to do on the ground, i had to get someone to hold her to mount while she whirled round.

I started with no tack and like the first person said just got her used to me being by her side, when she moved i put her back where she was and gave her lots of praise, carrots etc. When that was ok (next lesson!) i put my arm over her, more carrots etc, slowly building up to standing on a box next to her with her standing still and me leaned over her. I just put her back in position each time and let her relax, stroke neck etc before carrying on. I practiced that hop, hop and hand in the mane gesture we do before mounting over and over on the box before she would stay still - many carrots later!...

It wasn't exactly exciting work and it took us 4 or 5 half hour sessions of just doing that exercise, i put her out again after the lessons. She did understand what i wanted after a while which was the breakthrough - she hadn't a clue how to behave before - she isn't perfect and i have to remind her but she does understand.
Assume your horse knows nothing about what you expect her to do and explain it to her!

[CrazyHorsez]

If she start walk backward, you can "push" her backward, more than what she want then she will stop and possible will stand for you...It work on my horse so hope it will work on your horse :)

[Just.Jump]

I have always had the mindset of this: if the horse is in a position where you cannot redirect them properly (ie, you are not on them, or after you correct them initially), let them go the direction they attempt to go, but make it HARD WORK. Make them realise that what you are asking them to do is alot better than disrespecting you. So if your mare is backing up, which is what my mare tends to do, flip the reins down and get her going back very quickly. Pause while she is standing, try again. If she goes back, use the reins or a crop and not only guide her back with the reins, but give her a few taps on the chest (note: not the actual motion of smacking a horse on from riding position, but light taps to get the speed up). Continue this backing at a quick pace until they give to the rein pressure, lower their head, and move back fluidly. Try again. Should she STILL refuse to stand still, use a round pen and redirect her motion forwards.

Continue these variations until she stands still. Even the stupid horses or the most stubborn horses will eventually figure out that to stand still when asked is much mor epleasant than having to back up are trot/canter around. And by using the round pen, I mean working from a trot and cante rin both directions until achieving inside turns, stops, and join up, with following when you walk away after the join up. If you don't know how to do this already, go out and educate yourself this weekend- it's my firm belief that to own a horse you must be able to train from the ground up, literally.

Refer to my quote. Even having someone stand to hold her isn't going to solve the problem, though it will remedy it for a few moments. This is a lack of respect, and outright piggish behavior. Granted, I don't get to do this as extensively as I would like as I'm on specific lesson times, and when I get into that round pen, I'm in there for a while, so be prepared to spend up to or even over an hour to get her standing quietly even just the once.

I'm also assuming that while she needs retraining for the more "Western" (regardless of you living wherever you are) way of riding, that she has been broken and ridden plenty. If this were a young horse, it would be another case of re-teaching. But if she was ridden before, then she should have been standing at one point before she learnt that moving around could get her out of work.

[AndalusianSara]

Hi just wanted to say thankyou to everyone who replied with their ideas. With regards to me sending her away for re-training she went on Sat & is going to be there for 4wks. There basically doing alot of pessoa work encouraging her to strectch out build up muscle and get her balance etc. They are also going to solve the moutning problem as they have found this a common problem with alot of Andaulsian horses who are bought over from Spain. And lastly working on settling her down and doing lots and lots of transistions to get her responding and listening.
It may sound like all stuff i could have done myself but i have bought her on no end and before i bought her she didnt even know she could relax & walk let alone trot!
So thank you and i wil post some picys of my beautiful new all improved mare soon!!