Jumping help - I think she's (in the words of DavidH) 'pinging' me!

[tasha]

A couple of girls up the yard are hiring a local XC course with me next weekend, so thought I'd get some practice jumping in beforehand. Put up a little course (first jump about 2ft, the rest upwards of that to about 2ft6) and had a pop round it, after trying some of the jumps individually. Over all the fences, no matter what height or spread, Kally seemed to be tucking her back legs up during the moment of suspension so violently that upon landing it would tip me forwards, causing me to involuntarily kick her in the ribs with both legs. This would cause her to grunt and throw her head up (understandably) which for the first few times caused me to jab her in the mouth. Once I got wise to that I gave with my hands to save her mouth.

The only thing I can think that is different is that I changed her bit. I used to jump her about 2 yrs ago in a French link continental gag, with roundings on the snaffle and bottom gag rings. She used to go very well in this, but I swapped it for a rubber pelham when I stopped jumping for a bit to concentrate on flatwork. As Kal has recently started to dislike the pelham Ive had her back in her snaffle, a loose ring copper ball link which she goes extremely well in. As the term 'strong' is an understatement when it comes to jumping Kally, I put her back in the gag.

So, questions:

-Could the bit have caused the dodgy jumping?
-If not, what could it be, and how can I rectify it?
-If yes, should I try another bit? The pelham, although she recently has taken a dislike to it, her snaffle, possibly with a flash for added brakes, or something else? I have a small selection of bits I could try out.

Thanks, and sorry for the long post! :D

[knockaroo]

you say it feels like she is tucking her hinds right underneath her thus pushing you forward on landing, just a thought but are you in front of the movement, my thought being that if you were as you are preparing to re-take a more upright position agian and she is still landing it could give you this sort of feeling & maybe unbalance you causing the dig in the ribs and jab in the mouth. I could be way off the mark here, like I said just a thought. It might be good to have some one on the ground, to see whars happening. Good luck:rolleyes: :eek:

[tasha]

Interesting thought! I'll have people watching next weekend, plus (hopefully) my dad taking pics, so hopefully they can see whats going on. Ill keep that in mind though, thanks!

Think Im gonna try the snaffle plus flash. I can always take the gag along just in case! She might surprise me...

[DITZ]

i cant answer this but i'd be interested to hear replies as mine does this too. During one lesson jumping something of around 2ft my instructor showed me where Fly's back legs were coming up to on the wings and it was about 4ft. I like you was being thrown forward on landing and she said that there was no surprise I was given the high rear ending!

[KateWooten]

Can you put up some wingless jumps, and take her over them without a rider - either on a line or free ? This would get her some practice at getting her legs organised if she hasn't jumped in a while, and you could watch her. Also it's good fun :)
Kate

[tasha]

No facilities for loose schooling, but I will see if I can lunge her over jumps before we go XC on Sunday!

DITZ - Glad its not just me :D

[DavidH]

So, questions:

-Could the bit have caused the dodgy jumping?
-If not, what could it be, and how can I rectify it?

Yes the bit could well have caused the dodgy jumping but not in the way most people would imagine.
To see why you have to look at the mechanics of a horse jumping.
To clear the fence the horse has to make an 'arc' over the fence. The closer a horse gets to the fence before take-off, the steeper the arc has to be. IE you get a very steep upward lurch, followed by a hang in mid air then a steep descent. The whole body follows this arc so if the head went high, as the horse bascules and drops its front end the quarters will follow up to the high point. This all asssumes the rider is not preventing the horse from basculeing by holding its head. The further away the horse takes off, the lower and flatter the arc.
Most likely scenario if your horse didn't used to jump this way is that the strong bit (dutch gag on 3rd ring is very severe) is disturbing the rythm in to the fence. Hence the horse gets in too close and makes the high arc as described. Solution is to focus on a forward rythm in to a fence, dont change the stride length on approach and wait for the fence to get to you. Dont try and place the horse. Horses are much better at finding the take-off point than we are. You can set the takeoff point by setting length of stride on approach. Short stride in will put you deep in to the fence. Longer stride will make the horse stand off more provided you dont get in front of the movement. If you do the horse will have to put in a short stride to re-balance itself just before the fence and you will be back to the steep arc.
Another possibility.
If your horse naturally pings the back end and some do (Ed is a classic case) then a slightly different approach is called for. Generally riders have a shorter rein for jumping than they would for flatwork. In this scenario it will work against you as you have to go a long way forward to give the horse sufficient release over the fence. This means when the horse does the 'ping' you get launched out of the saddle then throw yourself backwards on landing.
For horses that jump like this you need to have a longer length of rein so that you approach the fence with your elbows completely bent and your upper arm straight down your body with elbow at waist. This then allows you to give to the horse by moving your arms forward to a greater degree without moving your upper body so far forward. Hence as the horse starts to come down you can be returning your upper body back to normal position so that the ping doesnt launch you so far forward. Then on the stride after landing you can softly bring your arms back to the approach position.

What you need to do will depend on which scenario fits whats going on best.
If it is the first scenario then I would suggest using 2 reins on the gag. One pair on snaffle ring and one on second one down. Then focus on setting a more forward but VERY consistent rythm in to the fence using the snaffle rein. Only use the second rein if the horse starts to rush but never closer than 3 strides out. The last 3 strides belong to the horse to make final adjustments to take off position.
If scenario 2 fits better then you will have to adjust your riding style to a fence.
Without pics it's almost impossible to say exactly what the problem is.
However, after having read the thesis above remember that when jumping XC you should be approaching from a much more forward canter with the horse standing off the fence more so the problem may well disappear.

[tasha]

Wow thanks for that David! Makes perfect sense. I used to jump with reins waaaaay too long, which meant that I woud fix my hands above her withers, causing her to jump very stag-like: no bascule, legs dangling. I now have them a lot shorter and find that I do give much better, and her bascule has improved greatly as a result. Im wondering whether I had my reins too short this time, causing the dodgy jumping.

I think I shall give the gag a miss and use snaffle plus flash (and martingale just in case!). I have jumped in 2 reins before and I find using them properly (independently) too much to think about when Kally gives me loads already!

Hopefully Dad the Photographer can provide pics so I/we can see what's going on.

[tasha]

Well, good news, and some kind of bad.

Bad first: it was waaaay too wet to do much, we popped a couple of diddy logs, a ditch and the water and called it a day. Also no pics, as Dad was worrie about getting both himself and the camera wet.

Good news: No more pinging! I jumped her on Friday night in the snaffle, just to check that I wasnt going bonkers even contemplating using it, and her first jump was 'pingy'. The second was slightly, then after that, no pings! I think it was the bit, obviously it is now too strong for her so can go back in my wardrobe again.

Hopefully another session booked soon as we got a schedule through this week for the first RC show of the season!