How can the rider cause a horse to be forward?

[julesandjoy]

I'm faced w/training my coming 3yo grade paint mare. I raised her from birth and happen to also have a half-sister whom I bought as a weanling. The half sister (now 6) is a good horse and I enjoy riding her but I've discovered that she isn't as 'forward' as I really like.

CAVEAT* I've been riding an arabian/SSH cross and HE is forward!

I want that w/my coming 3yo. I think I need to change my trainin style maybe. W/Barbie (6yo) I stared small and simply ride her around at w/t for a loooong time only adding canter when she felt solid and UNbucky. :) I, however, did alot of specific training on her during that time... turn on the forehand and spins, turns on the haunches, sidepasses, backing and lots of transitioning to 'stop' while out on the trails.

She, as I mentioned, is NOT forward. She is a bit spooky and wary of strange things so maybe her non-forwardness could be more attributed to that rather than all the lateral work? (lateral work, I thought, was really good for a horse)

Anyway, I want Regie to be FORWARD. I really, really like how the arabian feels out on the trails but he wont' do for showing - Barbie would be, I feel, an excellent candidate for all the judged events I do. Regie isn't the prettiest thing to come down the pike so I don't think she has a future in the show ring so I was wanted to really get her ready for trail riding. The arabian isn't mine and I can't buy him so I'm stuck w/making out of Regie what I'd like.

She seems to be a bit braver than Barbie and I plan on starting her this summer.

What tips can anyone give me to get her thinking FORWARD instead of sideways or back? Any balanced horse needs good brakes and needs lateral movement but I think that maybe I got Barbie stuck there and I don't want to make that type horse out of Regie. sylvia

[CMR]

From what you described, the way you trained your 6 year old was great. I really don't think you can change a way a horse is undersaddle(what I'm trying to say is complicated, but I'll try to explain) Every horse is going to have different gaits. Some horses will be slow and some will be fast. You can speed up a slow horse, and slow down a fast horse, but when you quit trying to control their speed they will most likely return to whatever is "normal" for them. It is all how a horse is normaly. To try and further reach my point, most draft horses are very laid back and slow. You could not train them to change that, you just have to work around it. No one trained them to be slow, that is just how they are. Hope I got my point across somewhat. :rolleyes:

[virtuallyhorses]

The key to forward is to always reward it. The horse should always be thinking forward even in lateral movements (which are FORWARD but happen to involve some lateral movement of the legs).

Every time the horse moves forward the pressure must be released immediately and likewise, if there is no forward then the correction needs to be quick and consistant. For instance, if a light leg squeeze does not bring a forward movement then the sharper leg aid > tap with the whip needs to follow in a consistant order and quickly. Likewise, any forward movement should mean immediate relief from any further asking. Nagging with the legs or whip will mean the horse does not see any point in responding with any sort of enthusiasm. If retraining to respond more quickly - don't be fussy about what sort of reaction you get at first - for instance if you go from light leg aid to tap of the whip and the horse leaps forward into canter - praise! (and make sure the horse doesn't hit the bit on the way forward). Initially you are just interested in the response and can refine it later.

[julesandjoy]

Oh well. It would seem, from these two posts, that I'm right out of luck. :(

Barbie is forward in the manner described by Virtually Horses. She will pick up a canter from a standstill on light leg pressure. She does GO forward - I just want a forward THINKING horse. Slightly different in an intrinsic way, I suppose.

Cvreagzayn, I think you might be right on the mark too. CJ, the arabian cross, has alot of gaited blood in him. I have a pony who is half saddle horse and he is very forward also - brave and honest and forward. I also have another arabian cross whom I believe to have a good bit of gaited blood but not sure. He, too, is forward in his gaits and in his thinking. Doesn't take much at all to get him going, and going w/big strides.

Barbie goes forward but w/little mincing steps which speak volumes about her mental attitude - "What's out there???? Will it eat me??? Are you SURE you want to go???"

CJ is more like, "Hey, let's go! Is that a Horse-eating thing???? No? Ok then, off we go!"

Maybe I'll stake out some goodie piles every mile or so on the first few rides for Regie - habituate her mindset to the "Let's go!" side. Instill in her an attitude of 'forward is fun'.

I suppose we'll just see what we get w/her. I will say that her dam was a very foward horse so maybe there's some genetic hope..... :) sylvia

[cvb]

jandj

have to dash to a meeting :rolleyes:

but parelli talks about "long" and "short" horses - and how to lengthen short horses and shorten long ones ;)

plus you've mentioned mental attitude - you can build confidence etc

will post more later....

[cvb]

Long and short horses - is about their flight distance. Originally they would have a simialr flight distance - just a fraction longer than a predator will run ;) and then over time we've bred differences in.

According to Mr Parelli:

Circles shorten a long horse
Straight lines lengthen a short horse.

She, as I mentioned, is NOT forward. She is a bit spooky and wary of strange things so maybe her non-forwardness could be more attributed to that rather than all the lateral work? (lateral work, I thought, was really good for a horse)

so perhaps lateral work will also shorten ? - and as you already have a short horse.... perhaps you should be working on lengthened strides instead ? And ALL the work, even the slower turns, sidepasses etc - all need to be done "with the engine revving" ;)

Barbie goes forward but w/little mincing steps which speak volumes about her mental attitude - "What's out there???? Will it eat me??? Are you SURE you want to go???"

CJ is more like, "Hey, let's go! Is that a Horse-eating thing???? No? Ok then, off we go!"

Maybe I'll stake out some goodie piles every mile or so on the first few rides for Regie - habituate her mindset to the "Let's go!" side. Instill in her an attitude of 'forward is fun'.


some horses are naturally more cautious, others more curious. Curiosity follows fear - that is something both Parelli and Rashid say :)

So you probably want to look for ways to do things that will engage her curiosity and make it "fun".


I think I've always tended to ride "long" horses - so the arrival of a 4 year old short pony was a bit of a shock to the system. Especially as I'm confined to the ground as an advisor as I'm too heavy for her :o

I'm sure the wee beastie thinks I am mad :p but we're having fun and she's moving nicely :D When she first came, if you asked trot from walk you got walk-hop-trot... and slowly the hop is disappearing and the energy is going forward straight away, not up and then forward :D We'll need to do it all over with canter as well - but there's time for that later :cool:

[julesandjoy]

Long and short horses - is about their flight distance. Originally they would have a simialr flight distance - just a fraction longer than a predator will run ;) and then over time we've bred differences in.

According to Mr Parelli:

Circles shorten a long horse
Straight lines lengthen a short horse.



so perhaps lateral work will also shorten ? - and as you already have a short horse.... perhaps you should be working on lengthened strides instead ? And ALL the work, even the slower turns, sidepasses etc - all need to be done "with the engine revving" ;)

Yup. I do remember the 'short/long' horse idea. Barbie is most certainly a short horse! She just about spooks in place. Regie (the one I want to train forward) does tend to spook 'w/herfeet'. Which, according to my purposes, is a good thing.

I will say that I've had the short/long idea in the back of my head and recently I started running Barbie - really running her and asking for speed and lengthened strides both at canter and trot. She's catching on but she's not a natural by any means.

Dancer is a long horse and we did lots of circles on him. Baribe, being a short horse, needed lots of long canters but her tendency to buck put a stop to that til recently. I will say that she's improving but we're mired so deeply in some really bad habits that it's gonna take some concerted REtraining to get us back on track. When I start w/Regie I'll have all this in the back of my mind so maybe we can do some no-buck canters soon into our training. She's 3 in April so I won't have to be so worried about hurting her as I did Barbie whom I started as a 2yo.


some horses are naturally more cautious, others more curious. Curiosity follows fear - that is something both Parelli and Rashid say :)

So you probably want to look for ways to do things that will engage her curiosity and make it "fun".

Regie is a blank slate right now so engaging her curiosity would be fairly simple - I hope. :)


I think I've always tended to ride "long" horses - so the arrival of a 4 year old short pony was a bit of a shock to the system. Especially as I'm confined to the ground as an advisor as I'm too heavy for her :o

I'm sure the wee beastie thinks I am mad :p but we're having fun and she's moving nicely :D When she first came, if you asked trot from walk you got walk-hop-trot... and slowly the hop is disappearing and the energy is going forward straight away, not up and then forward :D We'll need to do it all over with canter as well - but there's time for that later :cool:

Thanks, Cvb, for your input. I guess it's just common sense but it does help to have it laid out every once in a while. sylvia

[cvb]

j and j

the other thing in the "My Horse Won't Go" video that might be useful is the "point to point" exercise. I've seen Mark Rashid use this as well to very good effect with horses lacking impulsion.

Mark's version is like a ridden, physical "I Spy" game where he'll say "fetch me an A" and the rider has to ride, as fast as possible, to somewhere in the arena that there is an A. Or a bell, or a sign, or a flower. Again it may sound silly but it works !!! (You could place treats around your riding arena and get the horse to fetch them ;) )

I think when you take a short horse and start to ask them to go long, it can be a bit like taking a car thats been driven in the city and taking it on the motorway and going fast - sometimes there's some stuff in the carburetor that needs to get cleared out before the engine runs well ;)