Help? Wont leave the field!!

[Old but trying!]

Our 15yr old cob gelding has developed a bond with another gelding in his field and now will not leave the field and go onto the yard. He gets about 5yards outside the gate then runs back to the gate. If we suceed getting him into his stable he just paces and circles - clearly getting worked up. He used to be fine hacking out but recently he has been napping out on his own, spinning to return home. We are getting desparate as he just doesnt seem to be listening any more.

It possibly doesnt help that his feet were poor and he had his shoes off in December and they wont be put on again until mid March as they are now improving so no work since then.

Do you think we should move to another yard? Any advice gratefully received.

[KateWooten]

No, don't worry, you shouldn't have to move him to a new place. You can work it out just fine.

One question - how does he 'run back to the field' ? You go out to the field to catch him and briing him in, .... does he then get away from you - what's his resistance of choice here - rearing, digging his toes in, kicking ? Or were you all previously in the habit of just calling him in and he'd follow without a halter and lead etc ?

Well, we can work on that when we know more ... the problem is he's now 'buddy sour' - he's had time off, he's gat very comfortable out in the fiedl with the buddy, and he's anxious when away from the buddy. You can attack this from both ends ... 1) get him to understand that he can leave the buddy safely with you because he'll be going back shortly and 2) increase his trust in you as a buddy, so he feels less anxious.

1) is tackled just as you would imagine - take him away from the buddy for a very short time - have his attention on you the whole time, and preferably take him back to the buddy just before he gets antsy. Do this over and over, take your time over it, take care to not push him too far out of his comfort zone, gradually build up the separation time.

2) is tackled by 'moving his feet'. I think I would need to know about how he's getting away from you before I could give you any meaningful advice about where to start with this.

But don't worry - he was fine before his 'layoff' and he'll be fine after. If you need to give him time for his feet to recover, then I would just concentrate on that first, and fix the separation anxiety later, because it's much, much easier to tackle this if you can get him moving actively - you'd be pulled in two directions if you were worried about his feet at the same tiime !

[julesandjoy]

I have seen in numerous threads about 'napping'.

What is this????? :D To me when you take a nap you go to sleep for 20 minutes or so. I'm quite sure all these horses aren't nodding off out on the trail... I have never heard of a horse 'napping' til I started frequenting this board. Is it a European expression? sylvia

[hoofhearted]

Hi Sylvia I think napping means the same as 'barn sour' in the usa, basically it is unwilling to go forward and will either stand stock still or try to turn for home. Hope this helps!

[Old but trying!]

Kate, many thanks for your advice. He stands quite happily in the field and has his headcollar put on and walks to the gate (most of the time anyway) but once outside the gate he walks forward then suddenly just turns around and walks back to the gate. The ground is quite muddy so it is not easy to hold on to him as he is rather strong. He does not kick or bite but I think he would barge you if you stood in his path.
Today we actually managed to get him on the yard (3rd attempt) but he would not stand and had to go into his pen but we could not tie him up as he just kept walking in a circle. He stands by the tie ring then just as you are about to tie it he walks off, pulling on the lead rope achieves nothing. Eventually we cleaned his feet with him pacing about, he stood still for about a minute! He went back out to the field after his friend and the pony were brought in for the night. He stays out at night OK.
I could understand it if he was more consistent in his behaviour but occasionally he will come in no problem but these occasions are less frequent sadly. I am more concerned about this becoming the norm if we are not careful. My daughter is feeling a failure as he seems to have lost respect and is ignoring her.

[KateWooten]

yes, that would be my fear too - that this is becoming the norm. Sounds like with the equipment / facilities / setup as it is at the moment, that he's just about pushed you all as far as he needs to get his own way .... I can picture him pulling you all about in the mud - and barging - not fun :(

Do you have anywhere 'safe' that you can work him ? Anything like an enclosed area 20m or bigger with footing that is not too slippery ? If yes, then there's a lot you can do to re-establish respect and control from the ground. You do it by being the one that 'moves his feet' ie you keep him moving until he starts looking at you and saying, 'ok, I get it, you're the boss, now tell me I can come over and rest with you'.... Heaps of people here will you with that.

If not, then it gets more of a problem. Even for close-in work on a line you need good footing.

In any case, in the short term here's what I would do. 1) buy a 'rope halter' - a horse can't lean on it like they can a wide webbing halter. He's stronger than you and certainly stronger than your daughter - a rope halter if used well, will readjust the balance of power slightly in your favour - the more he chooses to pull against you, the more it will put pressure on his poll. Then as soon as he stops leaning on it, it'll go nice and slack and comfortable again, so it gives him all the right messages.

2) I'd go catch him with 2 people. One leading him as normal, and the second person by his hip as a backup. When he stops, the leader asks him to move forward verbally, then a little tug on the rope - just a quick jerk, not a pulling battle, then the backup person reinforces the 'go-forward' cue calmly but firmly by tapping his hip with a stick - a schooling whip would do, but take off the 'whippy' end first - it's just a tap, not a sting.

He's being naughty and disrespectful, and also anxious... Just react to the behaviour, without any emotion, raise the energy of your 'go forward cue' until he responds. Then next time he stops, go right back to the very softest cue you can. The key is to be able to raise your energy enough that he does in fact go forward. Think of a dominant mare in the pasture pinning her ears back to get the other horse to move out of her way - how much can she raise her energy to make her point ? Answer : she can get pretty violent with those back feet if she needs to. Generally, you only have to do it once, but picture one of you getting after him, growling forcefully, really meaning it, and slapping his big fatt lazy butt with the swinging end of a leadrope. As long as you raised the energy gradually, it's no big suprise to him that the swinging lead-rope finally hits him, of you've already swung it once, twice three times rhythmically near his butt... it's his choice to move forward or let it hit him.

Now about this running round in circles thing - that's perhaps subject for a later post, but broadly, if you have somewhere you can work him, it's easy to sort that out - you make him run round in circles til he thinks that standing still would be a great idea ! (that's a rough outline - there's a lot more to it than that - you don't just make the horse just run and run til he's exhausted, obviously).

Kate

[Tootsie4U]

Harry's posted a training exercise for nappy horses. If you search under the words "Clover Leaf" it should give you some advice re. things to do.

[julesandjoy]

I guess I'm just fully of questions but... why call up nappy or napping? Where does the term originate?

Calling it 'barn sour' or 'buddy sour' I can understand. :) But where does nappy fit in?

One of the best ways I've found to help nappy horses is to just take them out in hand. Mine tend to be much more relaxed that way than if I'm in the saddle. I suppose it's cause, minute for minute they're led more than they're ridden so they just feel more confortable. If you can do some long, solo walks in hand until he's calm it would go a long ways toward helping his attitude.

You could also take him out saddled and after several minutes of walking hop aboard and sit on him - of course, you would want to wait til he's walking and standing calmly before doing this.

WHen you've done this several times you can start getting on him and walking down the trail aways before getting off and continuing to lead him.

It shouldn't be long before you can lead him off from the barn and down the trail some, mount, ride all you want, dismount w/in a half mile (kilometer) from home, and lead him the rest of the way in. Pretty soon you should be able to mount at the barn and do your riding. I would, for quite a while, dismount and lead him very calmly and walking very slowly back to the barn. It's good for their mental state to not be ridden back home.

The worst thing you could do is to let them trot back to their barn, get off, and immediately let them go. Mine stand tied for several hours when we get back home.

Good luck! sylvia

[Old but trying!]

Some really good advice there, thanks to you all. We will try some of the suggestions and I will let you know what happens.