questions for Mark Rashid's students

[Dolce]

Hello there,

I know there are a few Mark Rashid's students on this board, (hello cvb :D ).

I have heard that he was explaining the footfalls. Is it in a book, or is it something he teaches???

I saw his new website. Gosh I wish I could go to one week clinic :rolleyes:

[Skib]

I guess cvb will answer on this one.
I have watched four Mark Rashid clinics and try to apply what he teaches in my own riding. But as a new rider I was interested in footfall before I ever got to see Mark. Mark Rashid has a DVD on footfall. It isnt really in his books.
All horses move their legs in the same pattern so footfall is not unique to Mark. You can buy any book on riding which includes diagrams of how the feet fall. Mark teaches the rider to time the aid so that it is given at the right moment, when the horse's foot is off the ground and one can influence its movment. I dont think this is unique to Mark either. I am taught by a dressage rider and learned to leg yield by giving the aid at the right moment. The same when asking for canter.
However, anyone using Mark's instructions in the UK should be aware that his
explanation of when the hind foot is off the ground contradicts what is usually taught in the UK, or in biology. He says that years of teaching in clinics have shown that it is easier for riders to time their cues if they get more notice of what is about to happen. So his explanation anticipates the footfall, and is a teaching tool for riders, rather than an exact description of the horse's movement.

UK riders will find that Mark teaches turns and the timing of the aids out of a backward movement by the horse. Whereas those of us who ride English and do turns in dressage will turn from forward movement, or stationary. It suggests that the backing style may arise from Western riding where one would be working cattle from horseback, and want to avoid scaring the herd by advancing the horse towards it.
Mark emphasises footfall for a second reason. He teaches a rider to be aware of the rhythm of each gait. Walk is a four time beat gait, trot is a two beat gait and canter is a three beat gait. Most people when they get used to riding lose any sense of the movement of the horse under them. Rashid asks you to be aware of the movement, to feel it through your seat bones, to count the footfall. Sensitivity to the movement of the horse, allows the horse to move more freely under one.

Mark teaches a third aspect of footfall with his colleage chiropractor Dr Dave Siemens: gait analysis. This is a method of examining the movement of a horse to detect any pain, stiffness or uneveness. You ask someone to lead your horse in walk. Then you walk beside the horse at his shoulder pacing exactly in time with the footfall of the horse. By walking in time with the horse you will sense whether one stride is longer than the stride on the other side, and whether one stride is quicker than the other. After pacing with the front legs, do the same with the back legs. Naturally you need to look at the horse's movement from centre front and centre back as well. This is only a brief and general layman's view of the topic. But having watched horses tested by Dave and Mark this way, I would never buy a horse without doing it too.
Back in the 19th century, Western riders and artists placed great emphasis on the legs of the horse. So though one may say that Mark Rashid's interest in footfall is not unique, you are right that his teaching is both accessible and rewarding both for the rider and the horse.

[Dolce]

Thanks Skib, great answer.

I am an English rider, I have also started riding western.

Right now I am working on my "sense of feel" (feeling the horse moving under me) and the right timing of my aids. My horse is big mover (17.2hh) so I am working on feeling her in order to be able to follow her :rolleyes:

[cvb]

like Skib says :D
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ok - a bit more then ;)

Mark R is not the only teacher I have had who has told me I should be able to tell, without looking, which foot is in the air and hence apply my aids in timing with that. Quite a few of my BHS trainers have said this as well...

the difference in what Mark has shown, told, put in the DVD (its not in the books) is explaining how the footfall links to the movement in the rest of the body, specifically the swing of the barrel. This is a major help to the rider in being to feel the footfall and apply the cues.

(The DVD also has a really nice part on how tight/close the rider leg should be. Its only a matter of seconds but its good :D )

I've played with these ideas a reasonable amount since Feb 05. Loads of time on walk-halt :)

Skin comments about the timing of the cue, and the focus on hind feet and rein back.

I find if I "ask" for halt on a front foot it is rarely square. If I time with a back foot, it works pretty much every time. Whether this is a rider thing or its easier for the horse... heck it works ;) By the way, I also had to "give up" the whole riding into the halt leg into hand thing that so many "dressage" trainers teach :p My mare just thought I was asking her to carry on walking - so the halts were horrible :( Stop using the leg, and we get a nice halt and no, contrary to what people say, I didn't then "lose" the back end a mile out...

Along with footfall you then get into breathing, timing of cues etc.

if you are riding western, footfall is going to be key for turns, spins and so on....

[Skib]

cvb
I forgot the barrel swing. yes. Thank you for mentioning it. Put it down to flu.
But even this is not unique to Mark. My dressage teacher does teach one to sense that swing because in forward seat one doesnt get the feel through one's seat bones. So the dip and swing of one's feet (together) are the clue to footfall.
As a new rider I had lessons doing trot in sitting, forward seat and rising and was being taught to pick up the correct diagonal on which to switch from forward seat to rising trot. I would need to look up my old lesson notes to give you the details. But the idea is that you should remain conscious of footfall even when your seat is out of the saddle.
I believe you are right that Mark may differ from other teachers in the emphasis he places on the front legs. Thinking this over, it applies only in walk? I have never really sorted out front footfall, largely because my teacher told me it wasnt necessary and I havent made use of it. May be it is necessary in Western riding, spinning etc.
But as you know I have been doing a lot of walk halt transitions. I've done the same as you. My "exhale, rein" is done in time with the back legs which I feel under my seat. That was what he taught at his last clinic. The problem with Mark's anticipatory method is that although you and I think we are doing it in sync with the hind legs, the delay in our response may mean that we are actually giving the cue as the front leg lifts?

[cvb]

The problem with Mark's anticipatory method is that although you and I think we are doing it in sync with the hind legs, the delay in our response may mean that we are actually giving the cue as the front leg lifts?

I know what you mean, and was going to say no - but not sure I can explain it...

I checked this out the other day when we got some ragged halts.

If I aimed to halt the hind leg, then the halt stops being ragged. So I was aiming to time the aid as the hind leg came off the ground. But even in walk, that will mean one front leg is in flight - even tho it is a four beat pace.. (one on the way up, one on the way down, two on the groun :D)

so even if I am using the timing of the hind leg to get the halt, it is not the only leg in the air ....

I'm going to have to go play with this one...

[Skib]

cvb
Overnight I changed my mind and thought you were right. I was wrong. It is the hind legs. I am looking for a halt that brings her hind legs under and has her poised to make off again.

Mark's dvd does concentrate on having the correct front foot forward in order to begin the next turn? I havent done any work at all involving front feet. This may be because you and Mark ride Western but I dont. When I do a turn on the haunches, (demi pirouette) I am taught it must arise from forward movement.

I assume a square halt means with the horse is standing four square, so that neither front foot is ahead? Mathematically, I reckon that a horse will need a minimum of two steps (one front and one back leg) to achieve a square halt in walk. Is that right? But only one step in trot.

I wouldnt waste time thinking it our further. I think it is not worth puzzling out which foot we breath on. We get the stop we want and it doesnt bother the horse what counting we use.

Dolce, if you are reading this far, there is an important message.
The reason we do this Mark Rashid stuff is not because it comes from Mark, but that horses understand the messages we are giving them. Rashid's cues are simple. We get positive feed back from the horse so we use them again. The horse picks up on the repetition and responds more and more quickly, to less and less, and both horse and rider are reinforcing the good relationship with each other.

[cvb]

cvb
Overnight I changed my mind and thought you were right. I was wrong. It is the hind legs. I am looking for a halt that brings her hind legs under and has her poised to make off again.

Mark's dvd does concentrate on having the correct front foot forward in order to begin the next turn? I havent done any work at all involving front feet. This may be because you and Mark ride Western but I dont. When I do a turn on the haunches, (demi pirouette) I am taught it must arise from forward movement.

there is a difference between a wastern "spin" (you plant the inside hind and pivot) and a dressage turn on haunches (the inside hind continues to pick up and put down in the same temp as the pace you were in before - but "on the spot").

So in one sense you are right ... but... both require the weight to move back to allow the forehand to lighten and turn around. And I think thats what mark's start from reinback helps with. I think it is a teaching phase and not the end result when it is refined ;) The western roll-back would keep that element of thinking behind you as it is a fast 180 deg reverse. Not sure a spin would tho...

I assume a square halt means with the horse is standing four square, so that neither front foot is ahead? Mathematically, I reckon that a horse will need a minimum of two steps (one front and one back leg) to achieve a square halt in walk. Is that right? But only one step in trot.

actually one step for the aid and a closing step(s). Any "full" stride is going to end with the feet apart - and in nature this is better for them as its easier to restart from there. So you have the full step that is when you ask for the halt, and then a closing step with the other leg(s) to match the halted leg. So in walk you have to stop all 4 legs (:D) and it'll go 1 (hind leg), 2 (front leg), 3 (closing hind leg), 4 (closing front leg).

In trot its then 1/3 and 2/4 are the closing legs. And in canter 1, 2/3 (closing), 4 (closing). Tho I have to say I've never really felt that in canter as the decelleration is quite something ;)

And if you ask me whether in canter you ask in the moment of suspension, I'd have to log it to ask mark next time ;)

[Dolce]

Am still there. I find your (and cvb) posts very interesting, if a bit cryptic at time.

I do not follow one person. I read/study a lot, mainly classical dressage, I have also read Heather Moffet, Sally Swift, and soon Mary Wanless.

Anything that gets me the right feel. I enjoyed Mark Rashid's books about horsemanship. I like the idea of passive leader, AND it works very well for me and my young full-of-herself mare ;)

Heather Moffet started speaking about feel. I read somewhere that Mark Rashid was speaking about it too, and about breathing. That is why, I am interested in the matter.

Is it possible to get his DVD in Europe? I got badly stung by import taxes last time I bought something from the US :eek: , so I'd rather buy from Europe now :o

[cvb]

Dolce... er.. you wouldn't happen to live in Italy would you ??

They tend to have them at the clinics...not sure if anyone has any "left over" copies but it might be worth asking Amanda Barton ? If not, wait til there is a UK clinic and either go, or ask someone who IS going ;)

(there was someone from germany at the last clinic I went to, so i could no longer wimper about travelling down from Scotland as she "beat" me ;) )

Skib and I also use multiple sources of knowledge - but it can be quite fun seeing moments when "all roads lead to rome" :D

[Dolce]

Dolce... er.. you wouldn't happen to live in Italy would you ??


Si, si, si in spaghetti country, Cathy, you got me :D :D :D

[cvb]

its a small world ;)
ah well, if you can't find a source of a DVD - remind me when Mark finally gets back to UK and I'll pick you one up !