Parelli

[pinkangel]

Hi

Can anyone tell me more about it, how it works etc!!

Thanks:p

[cvb]

pinkangel

try looking in the natural horsemanship section of the forum and/or doing a search as the question has been asked before.

also try www.parelli.com

[julesandjoy]

If you want to learn about Parelli go to www.parelli.com

You can search Amazon for Natural HorseManShip, this is Pat's book and is a very good place to discover his thoughts about horses and training. sylvia

[Cheeky]

Parelli ..

The way I see that Parelli works is in stages. He uses 7 games to 'communicate' with the horse, and uses 'pressure and release' to help the horse understand. Eg - the horse doesn't move forwards after one nudge, he gets a smack on the bum. etc..

Personally I disagree with a lot of things he says - I believe that he makes the horses too jumpy and they are never as relaxed as they should be. They become touchy to bags, all sorts of pressure .. and well, I didn't find it worked for me so I didn't use it lol. If it works for you, great :)

I have studied the tapes at home .. and have thought it pointless to buy (I was given these tapes) all these stupid massive packages at rediculus prices to help 'pass stages' - these must be approved by a Pat Parelli person .. I think that if it works for you, you shouldn't have to prove it to anyone.

Good luck with it all :)

[KateWooten]

There's a lot of good in Parelli the man, mrs. Linda Parelli and how she explains things, and Parelli the method. Personally, I think the basic book is the worst thing ever written - jam-packed with cliches and almost undecipherable jibberish (when I get home, I'll dig out my favourite quote for you - it's hilarious!). I don't think the book showcases the method at all well - parelli the method is better than that.

If you find out about the general theory, get stuck into the 7 games, and get to watch how Pat uses his body language in dealing with horses, you'll learn a lot and have fun.

However, what you need to know about Parelli as opposed to most other trainers and their systems, is 'Parelli the marketing cult'. He's really done very well in setting up the brand image. It's similar to Harley-Davidson .. you're either 'in' the Parelli system, and you call everything 'savvy', or you're out of it. It's not like Clinton Anderson, or Ken McNabb or any of the others, where you feel you can pick up at whatever point you're at, and learn whatever you need to, and then take it from there ... it's more like you're the beginner (to the parelli system) you start at level one and you progress up through the ranks. Because of that, it appeals to people who want there to be a systematic, failsafe, risk-free way to train a horse. I personally know significant numbers of parelli failures - people who have totally committed to parelli, spent $1000s, and come out the end of it with horses they can no longer ride. It doesn't seem to encourage flexibility and the abvility to think it out, on the part of the handler - now hold on, I know many parelli graduates who are flexible and think things out, I just think that the whole marketing of Parelli attracts and then encourages a certain fixed way of thinking.

Oh, and people who commit to Parelli are intensely loyal to it - this post of mine, even though I am totally in favour of the methods Parelli uses, will anger parelli fans and the thread will be closed down in no time. :(

[Esther.D]

Oh, and people who commit to Parelli are intensely loyal to it - this post of mine, even though I am totally in favour of the methods Parelli uses, will anger parelli fans and the thread will be closed down in no time. :(

We'll see if we can keep this one open :) Personally I agree, I use Parelli but I am not intensely loyal and 'cherry-pick' the bits I like. For instance I really like the friendly game, and some of the yielding to pressure comes in really handy getting through gates etc but I also use a lot of other things, for instance I use it alongside a lot of schooling on longreins as I am a driver and feel happier schooling that way than ridden. I have ridden bareback and in a halter and have worked my pony at liberty but have not committed to it seriously and a lot of those were things I (and plenty of others) were doing before they discovered Parelli, and Pat Parelli does state that he did not 'invent' it he just worked on it, packaged it and brought it together as a course. He also repeatedly says that people should use their 'savvy' (common sense) - some Parelli people do and have success, some don't and create problems..

[cvb]

and parelli uses some basic principles, which are common to a number of training approaches.

But as others have said - he has put them together in a distance learning programme, developed an international network of trainers, developed a communication and support approach..

I'm not a parelli purist, but I have successfully used the principles and approaches on more than one horse (based mainly on level 1).

[pinkangel]

Wow thats interesting, thanks everyone! I've been on the website thingy but it doesn't say anywhere what it actually is - u have to buy stuff to find out!!

Think i'll stick to Monty Roberts!!

Thanks everyone:rolleyes:

[Cheeky]

Heya

Pink angel .. I dont mean to pry, but may I ask why you chose Monty Robberts methods? Just wondering :)

[julesandjoy]

Personally, I think Pat's book is one of the best, most informative, and useful horse training books for a truly beginner rider/horse owner. His book is just about the only reason I still have, and am able to ride, my arabian cross gelding. sylvia

[julesandjoy]

Pink Angel, I'll give my impression of Parelli's METHODS - not his marketing campaign.

I truly believe he is trying to demystify horses and horse ownership. You don't have to have a full-time trainer in order to have a full-time horse. He is very big on having you understanding WHY the horse does what he does and WHAT you can do to avoid or change unwanted behavior.

He outlines his approach and makes it very simple to understand. He's akin to Roberts in that he does try to get you to speak the horse's language but he believes that anyone w/some basic common sense can LEARN to be safe around horses and can teach their horse to be safe around people.

If someone has used Parelli and woud up w/an unridable horse, then I might be so bold as to suggest that they didn't use the methods properly. Not waiting for the horse to 'relax' is a major no-no (learned that the hard way) and a 'feel' for the timing of the release is also a major requirement. sylvia

[dotsanddashes]

There's good and maybe not so good in them all - what works for one won't necessarily work for another. Look, Listen and Learn that's where the value is, oh and a happy horse.

BTW Kate, totally agree with your post, for what it's worth.;)

Pink Angel, have a look at Richard Maxwell, Josh/John Lyons and Craig Cameron's methods too - they all have loads to teach.

[BeachRiding]

I am with the savvy club, and the dvd's I get show home footage. His horses always look very unsettled, concerned, jumpy, and on edge wondering what to do next. This is why I will not buy parelli. He barely rewards his horses, and if he does they tend to just think he wants them to do something else.

With Linda its a bit different, I like her better,and I love her informative things. But the horses seem uncomfortable still. No Parelli for me! I'll stick with NH lessons from someone who isn't overadvertised or overpriced! cowgirlupranch.net She is my instructor and I LOVE her!

[KateWooten]

I absolutely agree that if someone is coming out of the parelli program with an unrideable horse, then they've missed the point. My problem is how can they have gone through that whole program, committed to it full-time for years, and yet still miss the point so dramatically ?

My most current example : my friend started out with a well-broke ranch horse. She parellied him for 2 years with weekly sessions with a local parelli-trainer. She invested in the full kit for each of 3 horses... and 4 weeks at the Parelli Center in FL - taught entirely by Pat and Linda ... Linda told her she had great feel and they wanted to see her on the certs course. She came home in December, and hasn't ridden since. The parellied horse is for sale at twice what she paid for him (well, he's a level 3 horse now, so he's worth it !!!) ... and has gone to a trainers barn for more training, in particular so he can be ridden again without going into a rodeo act ... one of the other two has gone to 'a traditional trainer' so that she can learn 'to do things, you know, like stops and transitions, not just the cool groundwork'. Weird, Huh ? I mean, she just spent 2 weeks on Linda's 'fluidity' course - which is ridden isn't it ?

I just don't get it. Even if I could get that she now has a horse that she can't or won't ride - I still can't get that she believes the answer to all her problems is more parelli ! I mean, everyone should do what works for them, right ? Parelli works great for a lot of people. If it doesn't - then change something !

Something's definitely going wrong somewhere in the Parelli-machine , because I hear of sstories like my friend's way too often for it to be coincidence.

Ok, here's my favourite quote from the book
"Excellence with horses and a partnership for life is what we all are striving for and rarely get because normal horsemanship gets in the way. I've identified 103 ingredients in Natural Horse-Man-Ship, and these concepts are the basis of this text. I list then in a particular order: 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10. Added together they equal 31. There are two sets of these numbers (1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10). 31 + 31 = 62. Add the 41 "Ps" as mentionend above. 31 + 31 + 41 = 103"
That's the worst I could find, but the whole book is kind of like that. If you find that kind of stuff helpful that's great. It's far too obfuscated for me. Clinton Anderson says it all a whole lot more clearly for me, and is way more cute. :)

[DITZ]

Ok, here's my favourite quote from the book
"Excellence with horses and a partnership for life is what we all are striving for and rarely get because normal horsemanship gets in the way. I've identified 103 ingredients in Natural Horse-Man-Ship, and these concepts are the basis of this text. I list then in a particular order: 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10. Added together they equal 31. There are two sets of these numbers (1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10). 31 + 31 = 62. Add the 41 "Ps" as mentionend above. 31 + 31 + 41 = 103"Goodness me!

Not a parelli fan but only because I've never read it, needed it or been interested in it. Glad I didnt now! That doesnt even mean anything!

[JennJ]

ive just had a parelli man come and do work with charlie and copper post in cafe area. i think what makes a good horse person is someone who is knowledgable in a varitety of areas not necessarily expert uses past experiences and can evaulate a situation plan how to react based on knowkedge and past experinces and isnt afraid to ask for help. im using the principle of parelli to teach charlie basics such as stand walk forward stop move over i think the pressure release is good for that im attending a monty roberts style clinic with copz (hopefully) becaus ei feel that he will benifit from that in the mean time im using parelli as with charlie to maintain handling. As for the gear you dont need it all imprivise to begin with if you feel you benifit then concider investing in stuff. try ebay tack sales a freind makes some of it herself. personally i feel they all are marketing stratergies but hey people need to earn a living and if they belive in it marketing is the only way to sell any product and if they work great.

[julesandjoy]

I absolutely agree that if someone is coming out of the parelli program with an unrideable horse, then they've missed the point. My problem is how can they have gone through that whole program, committed to it full-time for years, and yet still miss the point so dramatically ?

My most current example : my friend started out with a well-broke ranch horse. She parellied him for 2 years with weekly sessions with a local parelli-trainer. She invested in the full kit for each of 3 horses... and 4 weeks at the Parelli Center in FL - taught entirely by Pat and Linda ... Linda told her she had great feel and they wanted to see her on the certs course. She came home in December, and hasn't ridden since. The parellied horse is for sale at twice what she paid for him (well, he's a level 3 horse now, so he's worth it !!!) ... and has gone to a trainers barn for more training, in particular so he can be ridden again without going into a rodeo act ... one of the other two has gone to 'a traditional trainer' so that she can learn 'to do things, you know, like stops and transitions, not just the cool groundwork'. Weird, Huh ? I mean, she just spent 2 weeks on Linda's 'fluidity' course - which is ridden isn't it ?

I just don't get it. Even if I could get that she now has a horse that she can't or won't ride - I still can't get that she believes the answer to all her problems is more parelli ! I mean, everyone should do what works for them, right ? Parelli works great for a lot of people. If it doesn't - then change something !

Something's definitely going wrong somewhere in the Parelli-machine , because I hear of sstories like my friend's way too often for it to be coincidence.

Ok, here's my favourite quote from the book
"Excellence with horses and a partnership for life is what we all are striving for and rarely get because normal horsemanship gets in the way. I've identified 103 ingredients in Natural Horse-Man-Ship, and these concepts are the basis of this text. I list then in a particular order: 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10. Added together they equal 31. There are two sets of these numbers (1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10). 31 + 31 = 62. Add the 41 "Ps" as mentionend above. 31 + 31 + 41 = 103"
That's the worst I could find, but the whole book is kind of like that. If you find that kind of stuff helpful that's great. It's far too obfuscated for me. Clinton Anderson says it all a whole lot more clearly for me, and is way more cute. :)


This is, to be sure, rather a stupid thing to say - took a good bit of brain power to even put it together but ends up looking fairly retarted. :) EDIT: Oops, wasn't clear about what was 'stupid'. ;) Pat's quote from the book is what I am calling stupid. I mean, HELLOOOOOO. Where did 3, 5, 7, and 9 go???? I do remember reading something along those lines but I don't remember picking up the book for a 'math' lesson. I scimmed over stuff that seemed superfluous and read only what I thought might actually help me. END EDIT



I would like to submit a few questions to you, Kate.

Does everyone who attends a traditional or classical trainer come away completely successful every time?
Does everyone who uses Parelli methods come away w/a completely unridable horse every time?

If your friend spent 2 years 'doing Parelli' w/her horse was she supervised by anyone? Was she keeping records of what did or didn't work do she could adjust his training?

To my way of thinking, anytime anyone thinks that a specific thing can be a cure-all for their problems and that all they have to do is a few A-B-C steps - well, they are already set up for failure. They're not mentally prepared for the failures they enevitably encounter because they believe so whole-heartedly in the total success of the project. Failure is an intergral part in ANY learning process.

Things rarely 'totally' succeed. I don't care if you're buying a Maytag dishwasher (which we did and regret even though they bill themselves as being the very top of the line) or figuring out which dog food to buy. A seller is out to sell. They have to present their product as the best whether it really is or not. THAT's how you sell things. If you buy into every advertisement on the TV then you show your gullibility.

Same thing. Parelli is trying to 'sell his stuff'. If you're gullible enough to buy into it completley - well, so much the worse for you.

I might go out and buy another Maytag dishwasher - I might get Kenmore. Who knows? But if someone buys a Maytag and they like it - who the heck am I to stomp on them just 'cause myself and a few of my friends don't?? sylvia

[KateWooten]

sylvia, I agree with your points entirely, we seem to be saying roughly the same thing ... I do hope you don't feel I'm 'stomping on you' for enjoying Parelli - I can point to many places in this thread, and others, where I can point out what I enjoy in the Parelli program ! ( i.e. the method itself, the exercises he uses, Pat's body language, Linda's explanations and observations .. etc etc). And I also hope you are enjoying the debate - I am, but I know sometimes it's easy to trample someone's feelings without meaning to, and I'd hate to think I was doing that to you.

To answer your questions - no, I don't feel that any methodology could be, or should be fail-safe. That's precisely the lie that I accuse the Parelli-machine of pushing. That's what I feel uncomfortable about in the Parelli marketing - join this particular bandwagon, and you need nothing more - you need never open your eyes to anything again ... it's never stated, but it is inferred in much of the teaching materials. For example, how did you feel about the old level one pack ... where right from the start he lets you know that to succeed in level one assessment, you will need to display 'savvy' and identify 'savvy' in other people - that people should be able to walk into your barn, and immediately recognise you as 'in the club', by the particular way you hang up your rope halter ... didn't you find that intensity of brand imagery - that has nothing at all to do with understanding the horse - just a little bit suspect ?

If my friend were an isolated incident, or one of a few cases, then I couldn't care less. What concerns me, is that she falls into a common pattern.

The level 2-3 courses at Ocala have just been radically overhauled. Direct from Pat and Linda, the reason for this is because people were coming out of the original format far too inflexible in their thinking. My friend was on the new flexible level 2-3 course, and hated it. I mean, she loved the lectures. but really coupldn't adjust to the teaching style of 'ok, there's the theory, now go play with your horse, unsupervised, at whatever level you are at'. For me, I think that would be perfect, but for my friend, she wanted to be told what to do. I would guess that the new courses at the centers are a step in the right direction. BUT the level 1 & 2 teaching packs, even in their new revised incarnations still, to my mind, promote that inflexiblity of thought.

Yes, like I said, for the 2 years my friend was 'doing parelli' before going on the residential courses, she was closely supervised, weekly at first, then monthly after level 1, by our local parelli instructor. Her notes are immaculate, her progress sure and steady, she takes it seriously and submits her videos at the appropriate stages for her assessment. She is, no doubt, a particular type of person who wants a step-by-step course - she definitely tends toward that sort of 'fixed' thinking .... I agree with you on that too...

....what I don't like, is that I think the Parelli machine deliberately markets to this mindset. I think it fosters this 'in the club' mentality. I think it's a very clear and deliberate marketing strategy.

I like your Maytag analogy. By the same analogy, I'm not trying to stomp on anyone who's enjoying their Maytag. However, I owe it to friends to share the experiences of my friend buying into the Maytag system at a cost of $20,000 and still having dirty dishes - especially if my dishes are shining courtesy of Whirlpool for only $16.47 !!

Kate

[julesandjoy]

:) Kate, Thanks for this post. I appreciate your position and your honesty. I also appreciate not getting stomped in turn - 'cause to do admit to having my dander up a bit in my last post. :)


I just have found so much good from reading Parelli that it's hard to sit and read where someone thinks it's the worst thing they've ever read.

"To answer your questions - no, I don't feel that any methodology could be, or should be fail-safe. That's precisely the lie that I accuse the Parelli-machine of pushing"

You could accuse just about any product out there of the same thing. We can't continue to point our finger at Pat, though. Everytime we do there's 4 more pointing back at us for having swallowed such a line in the first place. ;)

Garth Brooks had a very clear and deliberate marketing strategy also. Who was it that said they were going to be the Female Garth Brooks??? Shania Twain??? Not sure, but whoever it was was pretty full of themselvs also and had a super marketing strategy. For that matter Purina has a clear and deliberate marketing strategy. I don't like all their foods but they sure as heck do - and they think they are then 'End All' of animal feed.

Do we jump on them? On the people who feed Purina exclusively? Do we have whole threads about people who feed Purina?? I've sat through many a discourse on the wonders of 'whatever' feed there is. I nod and smile, and go about my day.

Why can't we all just get over this Parelli chasm??? He is, afterall, only a man w/a plan. Are we jealous??? :D :D

"For example, how did you feel about the old level one pack ... where right from the start he lets you know that to succeed in level one assessment, you will need to display 'savvy' and identify 'savvy' in other people - that people could... ...walk into your barn, and immediately recognise you as 'in the club'... ...didn't you find that intensity of brand imagery... ...just a little bit suspect ? "


Well, I thought he was full of his own gas. :) I totally overlooked that train of thought w/a huge ROLLEYES and continued using the methods sans the lingo. :)

If your friend is the type who needs ABC then wouldn't it also follow that, no matter who was her trainer, she would be totaly commited to them? Maybe Pat's stuff isn't so bad as just the type people it attracts? Kinda like mules - I LOVE the mule forum and have to wonder why it's so laid back. No one gets a condescending tone and if they do they loose it fast 'cause it's just so hard to be condescending to such nice people. I wondered if it was just a good forum or if MULES tend to attract people of a specific character... thus the MULE forum was a fun, easy-going, yet very diverse group of people. Or maybe dealing w/mules causes these phsychological changes??? :D You learn not to argue 'cause your not ever gonna win!

Anyway, just some rambling thoughts. I do enjoy debate and have found that I tend to speak up for whichever side I feel is getting a bum rap. :) Doesn't really matter if I agree totally w/that side or not. So, if everyone started singing the praises of Parelli (or anything else) I'd probably chime in w/some negative thoughts on the subject. Hopefully I can learn to voice my debate w/a little more empathy for the other side.

Thanks again. sylvia

[pinkangel]

Cheeky - Hi, i really love monty roberts, i think he's wicked. I've lost count of how many times i've read his book. I just think hes great. I've seen richard maxwell in action and he's wicked too.

It seems i've opened a can of worms with this thread!! Thanks for all your views thou, i'll see what i can find on it and have a read.

[julesandjoy]

You could fish for a decade w/the Parelli worms. :D sylvia

[KateWooten]

Well, I thought he was full of his own gas. I totally overlooked that train of thought w/a huge ROLLEYES and continued using the methods sans the lingo.

well good grief, with a down-to-earth degree of scepticism attitude like that, anyone would think you were British - over here we like to swallow everything hook line and sinker (<--- ok, take a huge pinch of salt with that remark, I know - you're in Mississippi, and I'm not really a Tennessean !)

That's true about the worms (and too funny :) )

Can we do John Lyons now :) :) :) ???

Kate (running away with with a cheeky grin ...)

[cvb]

pinkangel

there does seem to be a difference in the material you can get about various trainers... relatively few seem to do "how to" guides - but Parelli, Lyons are 2 of those who do. Plus some of the UK people - Kelly, Max, Michael Peace

With others the written material is more about the philosophy - Monty, Mark Rashid..

So you have to enquire more to find out how to translate the philosophy into action (e.g. by going and watching them in work).

And you will find each trainer has both fans and critics - just look at some of the things that have been said about Monty for evidence...(in both directions).

We each have to make our own decision on how this information, from the fans and the critics, affect us.