What do you think?

[4everSaddleSeat]

Hi, I am new and was just wondering if anyone rode saddle seat? I love to ride it and I love Saddlebreds. I'm not into showing yet, but I hope to next season. So what do think?

[RingLass]

I ride saddleseat and love saddlebreds ... good luck next season :) :)

[Meg]

I've ridden saddle seat but with Tennessee Walkers. Glad to see there are others out there with a similar interests!

[luv2ride]

I ride saddleseat too. It is AWESOME:)

[Silver1]

could you tell me about it? *whips out pad and pencil* I saw some people at the show, they looked kind of stupid in their outfits (some of them look cool...but the brown plaid...)

I was just wondering, what do you do saddle seat? What kind of things do you do to show your talent?

[4everSaddleSeat]

In saddleseat, I'm no expert trust me, you dance with your horse. Not like dressage at all. You work hard, at least I do with the horse that I am on, to step high at the trot. Their are different levels. Walk/trot, three-gaited, and five-gaited, to name a few, the most popular. It is true the colors might be a little much on the suits, but it looks elegant, if gone well with the horse. :) I like the saddle that we use. It is very broad and flat. You used your upper thigh and knee musceles, not your calf muscle, pay no attention to my spelling errors:) :D :rolleyes: That is a summery of what we do, remember I'm no expert, but it is fun and chalenging. There I go again.:) :rolleyes: :D

[Silver1]

so...your horse does all the work and you just sit there looking prim?

Don't you have any...thinking games? Sports that require the rider to follow a specific pattern, or what ever?

or is it kind of like the paso fino's i saw one time? THose are brave little suckers, they were doing...something....and this huge watering truck came into the arena while they were practicing, and do you know what? THe drivers chased the horses! They were deliberatly trying to hit them, or make them rear, by honking and yelling and making little runs at them...and the horse only stopped once, ONCE!!


that was impressive...

I think I remember one game I saw with saddle seat, where they had to hold a glass of water and the person with the most water in it won...

[RingLass]

Well ... a bit like a paso finos, but not really. The paso finos rack, as do some saddleseat horses, but the similarity stops there. The horses used in saddleseat are often more high-strung than paso finos, so I don't think they'd respond to a water truck that well ...
Here's, in a nutshell, what saddleseat is: (I copy/pasted it off another board)
Saddleseat is indeed similar to english, but a bit more laid back (in some aspects.) The saddle is placed farther farther on the back and the horse is ridden with a different type of bridle, called a double or a full bridle. This bridle has 2 bits (a small snaffle and a large curb) and and extra rein. Horses do not neccessarily have to be "gaited" to be ridden saddleseat; there are walk/trot and walk/trot/canter classes in saddleseat show that are just as exciting as the "gaited" (walk, trot, canter, slow gait, rack) classes. The horses predominantly used in saddleseat are the American Saddlebred breed, although some Tenessee Walking Horses and a few various other "racking" breed are used occassionally.
In saddleseat, horses are not supposed to look calm and subservient, but instead excited and eager to perform (but not frightened.) They are shown entirely on a flat (although the previously mentioned breeds have the ability to jump.) The outfit worn by the rider consists of a long coat, long pants, a vest, a blouse, and a derby (not a helmet.) Unless you are showing in saddleseat equitation, the judging is done entirely on the performance of the horse, not the rider. The gaits:
Walk, trot, and canter: same as they are with any other breed of horse
Slow gait: A swift movement with a similar motion to the walk, except only ONE FOOT is on the ground at a time.
Rack: A much faster version of the slowgait
(NOTE: The above 2 are not to be confused with the "pace", performed by standerdbreds, in which both feet on the same side of the horse move at the same time.)
For more info, go to:
http://www.american-saddlebred.com/

Hope that helps :)

[Silver1]

oh.
that would explain why the horse that went totally balistic got the prize....

I really don't think i know enough about these things...I'll go look at the site, the more I listren, the more I'm confused...

[4everSaddleSeat]

Oh no there is a lot that you must do. Saddlebreds, at least the one I ride, are extremely, whats the word, fiesty. They can act worse...yes worse...than arabs. There is a lot that you must do to keep them going/slowing down, calm, mannered, and not so excitable. They are really fun to ride because they are all somehorse different. It is so cool to ride one of them when there are spooky things outside or you are going somewhere where they haven't been in a while. There are mind games. Especially when you have to think how to ride the next corner where another horse is or if there is a horse out in the pasture next to the ring. It is a lot of fun to ride them. You have got to do as say jumping or dressage.

I hope this has helped!

[Penelope]

Just another silly question... Surely it is painful for the horse with saddle further back?? Because, I was always taught with english riding that if we put our saddles too far back they would press down across the kidneys which would be v. painful? OR are the saddles not very far back??

I'm confused!

[Meg]

If I'm not mistaken, Penelope, (and somebody correct me if I am!)a major difference in the saddles is that the front of the saddle does not restrict the shoulders like a regular English saddle would.

[RingLass]

AHA !! Wonderful question, penelope ... I've heard this one many times before, 'tis a very common myth :)

A horse's kidneys are quite far down in his body, so it is nearly impossible to "sit" on them. It causes no pain or discomfort if the saddle is farther back. And saddleseat saddles are actually very similar to "normal" english saddles.

For questions similar to this, go to http://american-saddlebred.com/ and read "Exploding the Myths: Part 1 and 2" under the "discussions" heading :)

[K&K]

Originally posted by Silver1
or is it kind of like the paso fino's i saw one time? THose are brave little suckers, they were doing...something....and this huge watering truck came into the arena while they were practicing, and do you know what? THe drivers chased the horses! They were deliberatly trying to hit them, or make them rear, by honking and yelling and making little runs at them...and the horse only stopped once, ONCE!!


that sounds horrible! why in the world would they be chasing them with a water truck?! what kind of event were you at??

[RingLass]

Two things ...
1) Paso Finos are NOT Saddleseat horses.
2) I have no idea what kind of event that was ... the water truck driver has some issues, though :/

[4everSaddleSeat]

I don't know what those truck drivers were doing either. I hope that the horse was okay!

[JackiAH]

I, too, ride saddle-seat. ^_^ But! You left out one breed!

National Show Horses do saddle-seat, too! ^_^ Hee. {NSH's are arabian/saddlebred crosses, by the way. whee!}

I must say, though. Please, *please* don't compare Finos to saddlebreds. That's just... ::shudders:: wrong.

Saddlebreds are absolutely beautiful horses, although it does take a rather experienced {or one with guts!} riders to work them, as they are, indeed, a very high-strung breed.

[RingLass]

NSH !!! SORRY !!! Forgot about them :) Never ridden one, but they certainly look fun ! *Many* saddlebreds are exciteable, but very few are so exciteable than no one can ride them. I know others, in fact, that compete locally in more "common" sports -- jumping, dressage, even barrel racing ! They also make good pleasure driving horses, lesson, trail, and whatever else. :D

[JackiAH]

Hee. Actually, I saw, I think a few weeks ago, an add for a western pleasure saddlebred! *_* I kept wondering how on *earth* they got a saddlebred to put adjust their headset that low, and keep them at a jog, but... hey, I guess, whatever works!

[RingLass]

Some saddlebreds don't like carrying their heads high, but they usually end up on the hunter/jumper circuit. ASBs are actually growing common in the Western world, and they carry their heads like any other saddlebred ! (At least all the ones I've seen)

[Jess]

Hi everyone. I don't know if you all remember me, but I was here probably more than a year ago. I've been busy with school, but I finally made it back!

I used to ride at a barn whose main discipline was saddleseat. I suppose it's about like every other discipline, but at this barn, the trainer was horrible. Her horses never got turned out, she chained their legs together, she beat them until they shyed from her and she spurred the daylights out of them. Of course she trained all of her riders to do the same. I never had an interest in saddleseat, but she has turned me off to it all together.

I also know a few other people in the saddleseat discipline, but I don't know much about their methods. It seems though, that it would be a good discipline to get into if you want to show and really do well. I've heard most of the national shows have 4 and 5 people in the division... a friend of mine told me she was really shocked at nationals a few years back- she had 9 people in her class! It sounds like a lower-stress atmosphere than some other disciplines where you're lucky if the judge even knows you're in the ring.

Also, I think a few other breeds used in the discipline are Morgans and Arabians. That's what this horrible trainer had.

Jess

[RingLass]

Well well ... where should I start ?
I used to ride at a barn whose main discipline was saddleseat. I suppose it's about like every other discipline, but at this barn, the trainer was horrible. Her horses never got turned out, she chained their legs together, she beat them until they shyed from her and she spurred the daylights out of them. Of course she trained all of her riders to do the same. I never had an interest in saddleseat, but she has turned me off to it all together.
It's awful that she beat them and all that. I don't know why she tried to frighten them or spur them. That's not how saddleseat works. But, on the topic of "chaining their legs together", you probably saw her using light chains (3-5 oz) seperated and clasped loosely on their front feet to help their extension -- I know several people who do dressage who use this method, too ! There's nothing with it; it's not cruel.
I've heard most of the national shows have 4 and 5 people in the division... a friend of mine told me she was really shocked at nationals a few years back- she had 9 people in her class!
I'd be shocked, too ! The SMALLEST class I EVER saw at a national show has 11 people in it. It is not about "always doing well" -- I know people who have been to countless shows with world-class horses and never come away with ribbons. In fact, a lot of the classes at the world championships have 20-30 horses in the ring at a time. This is just the world Championship for American Saddlebreds -- I can't imagine how many horses you would have in a class if you combined all breeds.
It sounds like a lower-stress atmosphere than some other disciplines where you're lucky if the judge even knows you're in the ring.
I think not ! It's very stressful ! It is HARD to get the judge to notice when you're making your good passes. If you don't have an expressive, well-manned horse that will attract attention, you might as well save your money and not show.


I get really upset and offended when people judge saddleseat riders and horses without EVER having met them or gone to a show or even gotten the facts. It's people like that who promote hearsay and make a general bad name for us. :( :( :mad: :mad:

[JackiAH]

I quite agree with RingLass. >.< Saddle-seat is one of the hardest disciplines I've ridden, if not *the* hardest.

There's so many things one has to concentrate on-- the bits, the movement of the horse, keeping yourself in position {so you don't accidentally mess up the horse}... The list goes on. I find it *much* harder in the show ring than others.

^_^ I actually was in my first show with my new mare, Snap Krackle Pop, a few weeks ago.

http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/burning/picsofsnap.htm are the photos from the show,

http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion/snapkracklepop is Ms. Snappy's own site. ^_^

[RingLass]

Oooo ... she's beautiful ! Very pretty neck and good motion :) Is that her real tail or an extension ? What was your most recent show ?

I have 2 I show actively, and I haven't created a page for one of them yet, but the page for the other one is in my signature. The pics of him aren't very good, but I don't have a scanner to upload the ones that are (grr ... working on that.)

[Katie_85]

Jacki, she's gorgeous! Such pretty color and conformation! I ride Saddleseat, Huntseat, Western. Actually I started out Saddleseat on an Arab. Now I don't ride it unless I'm riding a Walking Horse. I got on Mandy today and rode Saddleseat. I've lost so much position because I don't rie it often enough; I need to get back into practice! ;) :D

[HorseCrazyGurl!]

Originally posted by 4everSaddleSeat
Saddlebreds, at least the one I ride, are extremely, whats the word, fiesty. They can act worse...yes worse...than arabs.



Not all Arabs are fiesty. Most are VERY laid back. Im sure you didn't mean to slam Arabs but I's appreciate it if you were a bit more considerate to us Arab Lovers.

[K&K]

wow, she's absolutely stunning! Very very pretty :D

[Pintaloosa]

I think there are different standards for western pleasure for different types of horses. A saddle type horse moves much different then a stock type horse or a pleasure type horse. You can ride pretty much any horse saddle seat. I know there are saddle seat classes at appaloosa shows. A lot of those appies will show saddle seat then later on in the day drop their head and do western pleasure. Appaloosas probably don't look as good as a gaited horse doing saddleseat though. Again probably different standards for different breeds.

[JackiAH]

::smiles:: Ringlass- That's her real tail. ^_^ It hits the ground and drags three feet, now. Our last show was Good Olde Summertime, really small, but we needed it to qualify for Region 12. ^_^ Do you have NSH/Arab/Half-arabs?

Katie, thank you. I'm *so* happy that we found her, she's excellent under saddle and the sweetest thing in the world on the ground. ^_^

HorseCrazyGurl- Um. Well now. I think that's a bit of a mistake. I think that horses are horses, and each one is unique. The majority of arabs I've worked with *have* been high-strung, and in fact, I only know about 2 that are "laid back." They are lovely horses, though.

K&K- Thank you!! ^____^

&-&-&

"You can ride pretty much any horse saddle seat. "

That's actually not true at all. It depends on the breed, really. In the arab circuit, if a horse does not have enough action, a long enough neck, or the ability to bridle up high... You cannot ride them saddle-seat. If you do, then it's your mistake and a rather silly thing to do. ^_^

I think, though, that app's are different, right? ^_^

[RingLass]

No, I don't show half-arabs; I show saddlebreds :) (though arabs, part arabs, etc are beautiful as well) I have ... erm ... *several* horses, but only 1 of them has his own website -- there's a link to it in my sig if you wanna see.

[CrazyfurAnimals]

Saddleseat is beautiful!!! It looks as if the horse is walking on a cloud, and the rider is just sitting still not doing a thing. But all the while, the rider has to use his legs, hands, and voice to control the horse. I don't ride saddleseat, but I do think its beautiful, and I can see why you ride it! :)

I went to an Equine Affaire, and there was a young girl riding a Saddlebread, who was indeed feisty. Before she came out to do her show, there was a man trying to hold the horse down while she mounted. He was jumping all over the place. But as soon as she got on, she came out proudly, and the rider and horse did an excellent show. :)

I'm glad you enjoy it! :)
Sarah

[Emma_G_NZ]

Please dont get angry at me, As this is just a general question!! I was wondering, (I ride english, and have no idea about saddleseat) the saddle seems to sit further back on the horse, in english-the very vulnerable part of the horse, the part which isnt covered by bones. It may be some of the pictures, and I havent read this whole post, But it'd be great if someone could clear this up as I have wondered this for a long time!
Thanks!

[RingLass]

Yes, the saddle sits farther back; with the headset and neckset of these horses it would be painful (rubby-pinchy) for it to sit up as far as it would on say, a hunter. It doesn't hurt the horse because A) it isn't much farther back and B) most people refer to this vulnerable area as their "kidner area" when in fact their kidneys are so deep in their body it wouldn't do anything anyway.

To sum it up: We're sitting square on their back, not way far on their bum ;)

[Emma_G_NZ]

Oh whoops! Got the answer from Maci's post which cleared it all up for me :D

[Emma_G_NZ]

Thanks too ringlass! When I get my saddle refitted it is always important that it sits at least before the 2 last ribs. Is the saddleseat a completely different shape to cater for this too? :o Confusing! lol

[RingLass]

The saddle used in saddleseat is similar to those used in most other types of english, except it has a lower back to it ("cut back saddle.")

Look ...

[Close Contact]

http://statelinetack.com/images/product/in733061.jpg


[Cutback]
http://ehorseequipment.com/p/656300.gif

[floppy]

i think saddlebred horses are extremely elegant but one thing i do not agree on is they way their heads are tied up high overnight whilst at competition.

but when they are really big, with their long mane and super long tail that trails on the floor they must be one of th emsot elegant horses i have seem...moving like a dream!

[RingLass]

Their heads are not tied up ! One of the things I find most beautiful is seeing the foals in the field with their moms displaying the beautiful long neck, high head carraige, and animated trot. Sure, you can MAKE a horse do all this stuff, but it won't look right ... forced, obvious. The judges will not tie these people.

The saddlebred's true beauty is all natural ... example:
my horse gets turned out 2 days a week, ridden in a snaffle w/ running martingale 2 days a week, and ridden in a full (double) bridle once a week. He wears a plate (trail horse shoe) and no overcheck or anything to make his head stay up. Yet, even as natural as this is, he was still ranked the #3 Five-Gaited Pleasure horse in the nation, and is still just as competitive this year.

[RingLass]

Also:

I've heard of hunter people tying their horse's heads up all night at competition, but never saddlebreds. This makes the muscles in their neck tired and they therefore carry it LOWER instead of higher, so that wouldn't work anyway ....

[floppy]

ehm they do tie their heads up.
I was Competing 2 weeks ago in the German national gaited championships and where my horses box was there were alot of other gaited horses and 4 of which were saddlebreds. All 4 of them where tied up in their their boxes practically all night with their heads up in the air. 2 of the horses won everything they could be to win. And the 2 VERY NICE people that owned the horses came from america.

Im not saying eveyr saddlebre *** tied up like this but these 4 were and i found it quiet harsh really.

[Soleil]

Okay, I've just been to a saddlebred horse show on Monday, and while walking through the barns I don't think I saw any of the horses with their heads tied high (though some of them were tied lose and standing with their heads held high.) So maybe it's just those couple people that you've seen doing it. (By the way, why did you note that the two people were American? was there a point to that?)

Anyway, I'm not expert on Saddlebreds but I do know a few who just happen to stand with their heads high (not tied up that high....just doing it on their own.).

[anuvb]

Okay - as a complete UK idiot on these things I have just had a look at the web-site. Very interesting - particularly liked the little downloadable video clips. Up until now I had only heard, rather than seen, about the gaits. Personally I think it looks very elegant but very much like hard work to me! ;)

Do the horses have a natural gait or is this something they are taught to do? If so, how do you encourage the very high stepping action, and does the movement cause any long term joint problems, as it seems very stylised and jerky? Is it a style you have to learn to ride, or is it very similar to "European" style dressage? And is there anywhere in the UK which promotes it - I have only come across it in books?

[floppy]

Congratulations Jackiah on your new horse!!!!:D
havent seen you around for a long time.

Your horse is gorgeous!!! na you can all see what i mean about the long tail!!:D

I rode against a saddlebred and got a bit concerned when i had caught up with it as i kept thinking my horse was going to step on its tail!

Ringlass- Dont get me wrong and take my words as being mean rather than just saying what i have seen and dont agree with.

AS this was the first open international gaited horse compeition i have been too i found it strange that the 4 saddlers there had their heads tied up at night and the stallions more than the rest.it was heavy to see. But what does one do? saddlebreds have only been in germany for the past 8yrs or so and noone knows anythign about them. The america bit was of no point...not really anyway but i am sure that this lady is not the only one who does this.

But i dont think its good publicity to amaze the public with such a breed and then later one after the class the horse is tied up for hours on end able to move his head but only sideways and sliglthy down and up. The public dont see that aspect as the dont have the access to the stables because of security.

[RingLass]

They don't tie their heads up! I show them all the time and I've been to barns all over the place, I think I'd notice. Were they being saddled at that time ? Some people tie them loosely (like cross tying) while they groom etc and they just hold their heads up naturally. Even if you were right, I have no clue what these people were trying to accomplish. As I said, this would make the horse do the exact opposite of what they were trying to do originally, so DON'T judge an ENTIRE disclipline on what your saw a few doing and perhaps misinterpreted so don't go trying to tell ME about "good publicity".


The high-stepping gait is natural and does not cause any joint problems, though it can be enhanced by leg-strengthening exercises like using stretchies and lightweight leather pads under the shoe. The slow gait and rack must have a little basic training to do, but most horses catch on very quickly. The rider, on the other hand ... it's tough to learn how to ride gaited, heheh (the posture, the posting, correct speeds, etc) and you hafta know your horse well to be able to show well :)

[floppy]

Am i speaking on a general term not meaning to offend anyone. - and i dont see what i have said that is so offensive that you are getting uptight.

They don't tie their heads up! - i never said EVERYONE ties their head up but i said im sure this woman is not the only one that does - which DOES NOT mean that i think EVERYONE does it.
THe woman must have learnt it from somewhere.

an no they deifnately werent being groomed or being getting ready for being ridden as when i saw it it was only during the night and the last food/water check i did on my horse was at midnight. and i am not stupid i knwo the difference between a hrose being tied up in crossties for being ridden or groomed and a hroses head being tide up to be held up.

I have no clue either what they are trying to establish. Probably the same as other people try to establish in different ways like forcing a horse into an outline. I know that forcing doesnt get anywhere.

and what do you mean about judging a entire discipline? referring to gaited horse or what? then i am certainly not judging anything as i have a gaited horse myself!