excited or separation anxiety? and a leading question

[eventerbabe]

Toby is being a bit of a nightmare just now. he's so excitable for the first 10 minutes of any ride. he bounces up and down on the spot, spins round, bucks and snatches at the bit. its begining to sap away at my already fragile nerves :( how should i deal with him when he's being like this? i never risk starting our ride til he's behaving so i usually walk him around the farm on a reasonably long rein, sit quiet and wait for him to get it out of his system. his behaviour has worsened recently which my mum is putting down to the fact that Bonnie is in season and being an outrageous flirt and he gets so upset when she goes ou first or if my mum takes her for a hack. is this the beginings of a separation issue? how should i tackle it?? its impossible to keep them apart as they are the only 2 on the yard.

also, his behaviour when being led is getting very bad. he will just tank off wherever he wants to go and i get dragged along. i try to make him halt, circle and then we progress on our journey but he's so strong i struggle to hold him. i've a feeling this stems from my mum, when she is looking after him (60% of the time) he gets to do as he pleases as she can't battle with him (bad shoulder and elbow). i've a pressure halter i got at a Richard Maxwell demo a few years back (specifically coz he was bad to lead then). is it worth a try or should i persevere halting and circling?

[nikkiandsharief]

hey Rodney was teh same when we first got Floosie, he actually reared up once right in front of his stable which was rather scary as his stable is on a slope and when he came down all i could see was the stable door. With Rodney i just kept at it, minute i got on i made sure we marched out the lane and up onto the quiet cul de sac road. The minute he started to do anything plonkerish i kept him on and asked him to trot to keep his brain ticking over and everytime he neighed back at Floosie he got a smack with the stick, as he use to neigh then muck about. This has worked for him the only down side, if you can call it that, the minute your bums in the saddle he's off walking but i don't have any nappy behaviour

i would try the richard maxwell halter. Rodney was the same when getting turned out as well, but he just wanted to go into the field and would put his head right down and then bog off leaving you running behind him or he would wait until you lost your balance and go. Now i take them out individually to the field. And the minute he mucks about etc he gets told to stand just like our doing. And when he gets in the field we turn around and give him a wee nibble of a treat but now he just gets a pat.

you will get there!

[stephanie bay]

I have had very similar exerience and my advice is get another companion pony. I used to keep a mare and a gelding - the mare was fine(dominant one) although the gelding was a nightmare he was as bold as brass with another horse beside him but on his own he was a nervous wreck and sometimes dangerous due to his insecurity. This was not always when we were heading away from home - I could be 5 miles away and something would 'stress him out' and he would have a panice attack and tank off in any direction road, track field made no difference to him.
I found keeing 3 the bond slightly weaker and they are less dependant on one another. If you keep an eye open you may be able to pick up a companion pony/horse for very little or see the ILPH they are often looking for good homes for horses suitable only as ompanions.

[KateWooten]

Hi eventerbabe,

he's just pushy and getting away from you, you can get his attention back, quickly, by moving his feet. You already have the rope halter which is excellent. I'm not familiar with Richard Maxwell (I'll go look him up so that I can figure out what he might have said in his demo ) but if he was using rope halters, then I'd guess his demo was about moving their feet to get control, nnd being very alert to 'pressure-release' ? That's what CA, PP over here are about anyway, and that will work.

In the demo - what groundwork did he show you ? Here's what I would be wanting to do - I'll have to say it in ClintonAnderson-speak, cos I don't know Richard Maxwell ... put him in the rope halter in the stall, and ask him to back up a step, turn his head left and right, maybe ask him to step over - just regular stuff you would do as you were groominghim or whatever - just getting him used to the halter. Now take him out and go work with him in a roundpen or some safe area. Insist that he stays behind your shoulder as you lead him. This is very much against the english teaching, but at the start, even turn turn round and watch him - you walk bakwards - and the instant he looks away from you, a quick tug on the lead - you need his attention on you full-time because you are his trusted leader. The instant he steps out of line, gets too close, hangs back, starts to pull, back him up 5 paces with energy. You have to be absolutely consistent with this, and it should be immediate. Consistency and timingis everything.

Did you see anything like the 'hula hoop' at the demo ? It just means standing facing the horse, and insisting on his attention and also that he keep oout of your space - a 4 ft circle around you - at all timse. Once you've got that, and not before, you can go on to all the groundwork exercises - yielding fore and hind, lunging for respect etc etc.

Once you've got him reall ylistening to you again on the ground, you've established yourself as leader again and at that point I'd be ready to ride him again. It's the same thing - you need his attention on you, not on her. As soon as his attention strays, get it back by moving his feet. Disengaging the hind end so he steps round in a tight circle is about the easiest, backinig up works well, if you have the space and the fooring, serpentines at a walk or trot are good. Lots of lateral flexing, and always remember to go very calm and relaxed and still as soon as his focus is on you.

Clinton Anderson has a good book with all the exercises in them - it's about £20 on amazon, and it's really easy and full of pictures.

Hope that helps
Kate

[eventerbabe]

3 may be a possibility when we get our extra field (i'm planning to buy a welsh D youngster at some stage). Toby has always been reasonably confident on his own. he's been hacking alone the past 12 months without any problems. he can get a bit jittery if he hears my pony whinnying but once we are out of earshot he's fine. he's good in that he never offers to bolt. we have a little headshake and buck and off we go again like nothing had happened.

my mare is very dominant, moreso now she appears to be in season (i'm off to buy some oestress tomorrow!) and she henpecks him a lot.

i've a feeling he needs more work. i've no school so we just hack and i think he's missing out on a more 'regimented' routien. he used to do mainly schooling but when we moved we went full circle and now hack 99.9% of the time.

sorry! crossposted with you kate!! he is a very pushy little cob most of the time and he pushes his luck with me coz my mum lets him away with murder. i'll try and get hold of that book.

the demo was a good few years ago, but i've some notes at home i made from it, and a video of exercises Richard Maxwell suggests to do with the halter.

[nikkiandsharief]

when we had 3, rodney was still a problem!

its actually calmed down alot more since its only the 2 guys we have now. but what i think now is rodney and i have got a better relationship and we know each other so well - so maybe more work spending time together?

i know what its like not having a school!! :rolleyes:

[KateWooten]

yep - more work, and more time together. My two went through big separation anxiety, and whoever's left behind is usually still antsy, but the breakthrough comes when the one that's with you is so confident in your leadership that he doesn't feel 'alone' any more. that's what the groundwork will do for you - at least that what it did for me and my two - they're 4 yr olds now, but they were 3 when I was doing all that with them.

[stephanie bay]

Yes 3 can still be a problem - My friend bought a country house with land and stables so as she could keep her horses at home Her mare never settled in. She had always been kept on fairly large livery yards near towns. After a year of her being stressed out she found a local yard to keep her at??!!? and kept 2 gelding at home. All horses are so different seems her mare is a 'townie' not a country girl.
Once you get them into hard work it fairly makes the difference. Also Getting them separated going to shows, endurance rideshttp://www.baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/lothians/news&localparams=1&db=news&cmd=search&range=0,23 schooling evenings does the world of good as they relax when they realise there are other horses wherever they are going. see if you can meet up with others to hack out with, get him out of 'needing' his mare.
As for leading problems make sure you are safe, hat, good boots and long rope. If you can, turn him out first.
If you pair have been oK in the past its is most likely just the time of year - all mine are getting a bit full of themselves I think they are fed up being in and with the longer days they feel the spring in the air.

[eventerbabe]

stephanie, thanks for the advice. i've had him 10 years, got him as a baby so we've a strong bond there, he just seems to think he can do as he pleases some of the time :rolleyes: apparently he tanked off with mum yesterday when she was bringing him in from the field.

we shall see if things improve when we get our mare onto oestress! she's been ill for a long time (on and off for about 5 years) and this is the first time in a long time she's been fit and well enough to play and interact with toby so i think they've both regressed into a baby phase :rolleyes:

[Jessey]

I would definatly try the rope halter, to try and put a sharp stop to him dragging you and your mum around.
I would work on 'back up' and 'wait' commands and really try to drive home that you won't tolerate anything but perfect manners (I know you probably do this anyway but going to complete 'zero tolerance' should help).
Do work on seperating them, even if its just waiting 2 minutes between turning them out in the mornings etc as this will help them learn to wait more patiently, this may also help when you go to hack out.
If he is pulling your mum about that much I would be inclined to get her to try turning him out in a bridle, just until you have worked on his halter manners a bit :p

J x