Parelli Trailer Loading

[Yann]

Not trying to start WW3 here (honest!) but can someone outline the Parelli loading method for me? I've not seen it demonstrated first hand or watched the DVD but the comments of a friend who has and Horseback's reference to the video of PP she's seen have aroused my interest. Whilst it may not be my cup of tea in some respects there's always something to be learned from other methods:)

[michelle c]

it has been a long time since i have done parelli so i might not have the exact details, but here goes: first you teach your horse the parelli games, you need this so your horse understands not to run over you and so he knows what you are asking him and he has no issues with the games. you start off by using the squeese game between you and the ramp,if he is not conserned about the gap you squeese him closer and closer until he walks over the ramp calmly both ways (it is harder if you have a wagon) this gets him over any issues of the ramp. then you turn and stand on the ramp and ask him to go up the ramp and into the trailer, this is where you lead it, lift it, swing it, touch it. first you lift your leading arm to where you want him to go NO PULLING you are just guiding him, then you lift the carrot stick, then you swing the stick (which should have the string on the end) then you swing it over the horses rump NOT HARD. at any stage if the horse tries to go forward reward him by quitting every thing, if nothing happens repeat procedure, once he tries back him down the ramp let him think and then repeat procedure!!!! once he will go in build on staying in for longer durations by sending him back in every time he comes out!!!!

[FRED]

I studied this method and adapted it for loading Dakota{ don't shoot strictly none Parelli purists do they, W3 and all that ;) }

No stick either, to risky with him,worked absolutely brilliant, loaded himself without any issue, no rope, but he was clearly nervous, thats where the two way trust really helps:)

[Chablis]

Truthfully, unless you watch Pat's DVD about his trailor loading methods, it's very easy to miss things out hearing them second hand.

There are also other ways of float loading that aren't shown on the DVD just to confuse you even more.

[FRED]

I have just read another thread about Parelli loading, its just absolutely incredible the different results people get.
When I was deciding the best approach, I was put off using a Dually on a horse reputed to have problems with just a head collar{although its proven now not to be an issue through very calm handling,perhaps} I once saw a Dually not release {not a good thing to see} and knew that it would cause a disaster with D,any happenings like that,to be honest, the horseman was so good he prevented a scene, but were not all that experienced.I studied the Parelli methods and used my common sense with what I knew and the trust built up with D.
Just amazed and not a drop of sweat on D,despite all our preparation,I was pretty nervous for him.
So what are your thoughts Yann?

[Yann]

Sounds like you've done some good quiet work there Fred, all credit to you. I think we should always be prepared to adapt a given way of doing things to suit our own situation as we read it at that time.

If I understand correctly then the horse is essentially driven into the trailer from pressure behind. For a horse that does the games well and doesn't have major issues with trailers I'm sure this is fine. How does it operate with a more problematic case? It's not inconcievable that a remedial horse will play all the games beautifully and still not want to load, in such a scenario where do you go?

Faced with a difficult situation I find that my horse will deal with things if I take the lead through or past, to me that's being reliable and letting me do the worrying. Applied to a loading situation that would mean the handler going up the ramp into the trailer first. My own preference is for a quiet persistent approach where the horse is on pressure (doesn't have to be from a dually) unless it makes the smallest effort in the right direction. It's the method that was used with Rio and she was very soon completely relaxed and happy about loading, unloading and being in the trailer. I watched another excellent demonstration of the same method this weekend and have also used it myself on another horse.

In comparison setting up to load by driving the horse in from behind appears to me at least to be making everything that bit harder and more prone to escalating in terms of pressure and adrenalin levels.

[cvb]

Yann

I think one of the freebie Savvy Club DVDs was on trailer loading - you want to borrow if I'm right ?

[Yann]

I'd be most interested if you're prepared to lend it to me?:)

[cvb]

Yann

I reckon I can trust you ;) Will try and remember to check tonight....

[Crystal Fire]

Yann, a phrase oft repeated by PNH instructors during trailer loading "Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult". I had a horse that was excellent at the games but he didn't like the trailer loading. I passed all of level 1 in 3 weeks, then the trailer loading about 2 months later. If you email me I'll describe the process as I can remember it (I was being instructed by the PNH instructor Ross Simpson at the time). I would do things a bit differently now.

[FRED]

To be honest,the only time in real life I have seen a horse load with their trainer behind was Kelly Marks, although this was not intended,the horse that usually took 4 hours to load was sparkling and happy, to load Kelly Marks.

I let D see me in and around the trailer, he came over to investigate all of his own free will. Then we went off for a walk { no head collar or rope}and then more investigating on our return to the trailer.Then investigating the ramp from each side and entering,with no pressure to stay in.He came out,went in,came out,went in. I had been asuured loading D would be a nightmare.

No I don't think its wise to stand right behind a horse that has a reputation for knocking people about or good horsemanship to raise their adrenalin level.{athough I can stand behind D with no issue}
We have worked on trust and a bond, there are alternatives to the loading technique to the one you have come across.No stick in our case,whole field to run off, no rope, fingers crossed you will see there other way.You could not call my way strictly Parelli, but indeed I was very influenced, don't mind to admit,really like some of their ideas.

I forget what level their advise is that you can do loading this way, I just look at what I like and study that, if its ok with D,its ok with me} I look for what suits his character and usually he shows willing with this approach. He's still untrusting about men{cough,but makes an exception}we couldn't believe his reaction a few weeks ago to his old buddy, we will never know why, but if looks could kill,a change in body language said it all, no doubt some would argue why he went into the trailer in the 1st place.

Daft as it may sound, we used the help of his field mate once to help him understand leading from a head collar and rope, worked brill, makes a mockery of 'increasing pressure'.

at shows have seen some pretty awful loading techniques.

[99E]

Horses that don't load well because they're scared of the trailer also loads well by "the Parelli method".

When the horse is scared, you simply start "Approach & Retreat" further away.

The theory is, the horse has some "thresholds" around things the like/don't like.
Each horse has different "thresholds" like at some point they start paying attention and getting a bit nervous. At som other point they simply panic and run away.
Several thresholds can be observed between those two.
For a hose that doesn't has any trailer loading issues a threshold is often like "On the ramp" or "a couple of feet away from the ramp. That's where the STOP and won't move further.

For horses with MAJOR trailer loading issues, the threshold might be 50 feet away!

If a horse is pressured way over the STOP-threshold, it panics - if it's retreated (aka. walked/backed away) from the trailer it usually gets more confident and the threshold is MOVED CLOSER TO THE TRAILER!

That's more or less the essentail philosophy of "The Parelle Method Trailer Loading":
Using the "Approach and Retreat"-technique as a tool for managing and moving the horses thresholds until the horse will confidently and calmly walk into the trailer.

It's not supposed to be "pushingpushingpushing-from-behind" until the horse moves away from pressure, over it's thresholds and into the trailer (which it's at that point still scared of).
As Linda Parelli said on a recent Savvy Club-DVD in Europe (I think you US-guys got it a year ago? Linda's loading BJ's horse, I think?) - she hardly ever uses her stick because she's gotten BETTER!

[cvb]

Yann - it wasn't on the "freebies" :( I am thinking it might be the Level 1 video ? (given trailer loading is part of the old L1 assessment). I KNOW I've seen a short segment on it :rolleyes:

wanna see the L1 video ?

[Yann]

Wouldn't go amiss :) It's not the one with the 7 games on and the little arab though is it? If so I've seen it and there's no trailer loading. The bit about 2 x 12 = 22 and 2 x 22 = 45 caused a lot of mirth with my 11 year old daughter :D

[cvb]

Yann

Its more like PP going through the L1 tasks... I'll have a look at it before I confirm sending it ;)

[michelle c]

i liked the parelli method in the fact that you got the horse used to the ramp first and didnt just ask the horse to deal with the whole trailer, also i liked the fact that you send the horse in without you, this is good because if the horse were to get frightened you are out the way and not directly infront of the horse should it barge forwards (which most horses tend to do when frightened) and if you are on your own you can load the horse and do the butt bar and ramp without tying the horse up first and hoping it will stand while you go round the back and do the ramp!!!!!:eek:

the problem i found when doing this method is that my horse would go and stand in the trailer and i could do the chain up, BUT if i tried to put the ramp up she would panic, inevitably she would not load for about half an hour after that. although i passed everyother task in level one i never did get the ramp up on the trailer after about 30 hours of practice on weekends, me and my horse became bored. :mad:

it seems to me that the parelli method of trailer loading and every thing parelli in fact is make a fuss until the horse decides it is easier to go in the trailer than have someone waving a stick around while it is outside, although it got my mare in the trailer, i feel that she still did not like the trailer and if she had the choice not to go anyware near it ever!!!!!

i wanted my horse to want to do things and finally realised that although she had quietened down and became a horse who would do most things i asked she had a glazed look on her face and to a point turned off when training, so i wanted a different approach and turned to positive reinforcement and started clicker training, she now is more extrovert and wants to learn and learns quicker due to positive reinforcement.

[Yann]

I agree regarding the crossing the ramp thing, that strikes me as a good idea as a lot of the time a horse will find the sound and feel of the ramp as bad as the trailer itself. The comment about the horse not being happy in the trailer is interesting, because the method I've used does seem to result in relaxation in the trailer, it certainly did with Rio and the other horses I've seen done that way.

Re. Parelli, I think what you have described is one of the possible drawbacks of the alpha style approach with a lot of emphasis on negative reinforcement. I agree CT is brilliant - Rio and I enjoy groundwork far more with it than we ever did before, she gets really tuned in and looks for the next cue all the time, it's a lovely feeling :)

[michelle c]

i am very open minded about training techniques and will give anything a try as long as it seems logical to me and my horse :p . when i was introduced to parelli, it was a lot better than the conventional methods i was taught and i did get results. my friend off another yard introduced me to clicker originally to get my mare to load so i could get assessed for the parelli, but i found she was so excited to do clicker that we progressed a lot quicker in training than ever before with enthusiasm :D :D :D although i havnt approached the trailer loading yet, we have progressed so much that i find it hard to keep up with my mare. she can now follow me anywhere like glue at any speed without a rope, touch targets, squeek a dog toy, back up as fast as she can walk forward with 1 oz of pressure, the beginings of shoulder in, roll a jym ball, stand on a block, bow, follow voice commands and has just started circling at walk and trot around me without ropes!!!! infact it is hard to keep up with her and challange her!!!!:rolleyes:

do you do ridden clicker training? if so is it as easy as ground training?
i cant ride my mare now as i am too heavy!!!!:eek: but if i lost about 3 stone i could (as if that is going to happen!!!!!) :p

[Yann]

Wow, that's impressive, she sounds like a very clever pony :) You've done a lot more with it than I have, I would guess trailer loading might well be a doddle for you now.

I've tried a little bit of ridden clicker, in theory the principles are exactly the same, but I found it a bit difficult to coordinate everything, it's certainly easier to use a verbal click!

It's great when you find something that really works for you :)

[Tootsie4U]

It's not inconcievable that a remedial horse will play all the games beautifully and still not want to load, in such a scenario where do you go?


Good question. But, I would think that by the time you can get through the entire games process (..with finesse) that your horse would have such an innate trust in you that it'd obligingly and willingly hop on anyway.

Bonfire for some extremely odd reason was petrified of doorways but after getting through the 7 games, I could send him through one using the squeeze game and the driving game at liberty no problem at all.

[Abi B]

So you can't use the pirelli method if you have a wagon then? There is no way you could walk across our ramp (you could jump it??). I can't get my horse to load. I need advice (see thread entitled ' I can't get him to go into a horse box'

PLEASE HELP ME!!!

[99E]

...which is apparently a horse trailer without a ramp (?), you just play as if you had a ramp and squeeze the horse between you and the trailer.

The Parelli's often use trailers without a ramp.

[cvb]

99E - wagon as in LORRY I believe ;)

With a lorry the ramp is much much steeper. PNH does not allow you to use a lorry for the level assessments (possibly for old L1, but not after that). Which is a bit difficult if thats what you own... we have a trailer but I haven't got round to videoing the loading yet.

[99E]

Aha.
Wagon = lorry - new word added to vocabulary! :o
Now, a "horse box", that's a trailer, then???

I didn't know you're not allowed tol use a wagon for the assesments.
Darn, we just sold our trailer (because we never really used it except for playing around with loading).

But it is true, that it's quite hard to sqeeze the horse across the ramp of a lorry...

I guess we'll just have to borrow or rent a trialer for whenever we find the time to videotape a trailerloading again...
(I figured a lorry would be okay as long as I can get my horse to canter up the ramp as required, what's the big difference...?!)

[cvb]

99E

well yes and no - we have a habit of using "horse box" to mean either trailer or lorry, but strictly speaking its just a lorry and a trailer is a trailer ;)

I think the difference in terms of the assessment is the enclosed space of a trailer - but thats just my opinion and not any insider knowledge.