still not convinced

[Tuff_up]

do you really have control in bitless bridles my horse hates bits and i want to have pleasent rides and pleasent tack ups. i don't care for showing but for spooking she is a 5 year old mare alone and in training. bitless are quite expensive and do they really work i am intrested in the nurtural bridle so comments would be great. is it true your horse just slides its head right in when you bridle um up any info possitive or negative would be great.thanks guys

[Unbridled]

I have more control in my Dr. Cook Bitless Bridle than I ever did in a bit. In the bit Sugar would occasionally throw up her head or open her mouth to evade my commands and once she bolted through it on the trail (very scary!). She also was never fully relaxed in a bit, as her previous owners had been riding her in bits which were too large for her mouth and far too harsh for their inexperienced hands--and they also used the bit to punish her.

In the bitless she is perfectly relaxed and much lighter to cues than in the bit because she is not distracted by her worry about being banged in the mouth (not that I ever did but her old owners had and she remembered). And yes, she does slide her head right into the bridle; all I have too do is hold it out and she will lower her head right into it. With a bitted bridled she would often raise her head or try to turn away to avoid it.

The Dr. Cook does cost a little more--my Beta was $83. But to me it was more than worth it because my horse is happier than she's ever been. And the Dr. Cook is really versatile. You can use it for lunging, leading, and tying as well as riding. And they have a 30 day money back guarantee, so really you haven't got anything to lose by giving it a try. :)

[Pudding]

Mine goes well in both a bit and in a Dr Cook but, she spooks and naps a lot less in a bitless and I've never had any control issues with her, breaks are just fine.......I'm tending to ride bitless more and more.........I got mine off e-bay for £40.

And I would agree, that she is easier to tack up. I also used to have mounting problems due to a previous owner but, she stands better in a bitless too....

Took a bit of getting used to but, my riding style has changed slightly and I ride with my body more.......

[No_Angel]

well all my lot are bitless, remember that everyone has differnt experiences, and every horses goes differntly in each type of bitless.
i bought a dr cook, at first i loved it, but it started to rub maddie quite badly and she started to lean on it, so i just took it that she didnt like that particular one and tried others, at the momet shes really happy in her happywheel.
i went hunting in the dr cook, and although she leant alot, i had brakes, i wouldnt hesitate to take her anywhere in the happywheel- and maddie is a silly tb ex racer! (we mostly do sideways at high speed when were excited)
i can pretty much ride my lot out in a headcollar, i know i wouldnt have brakes if i were to do anything exciting, but for riding in the field or a quick pootle its fine.
if you really want to try it just have a go, if you havent got brakes but your horse seems happier try another type.

i have mounting problems with my girl (shes getting alot better tho), but shes turned from something evil to tack up (kicking you in head and dragging you down the road and biting viciously) she stands still and pulls a few faces when you do up her girth (doesnt even notice tho if you feed her carrotts:rolleyes: ) and she now pushes her head into her bridle.

[horseback]

I have more control in my Dr. Cook Bitless Bridle than I ever did in a bit. In the bit Sugar would occasionally throw up her head or open her mouth to evade my commands and once she bolted through it on the trail (very scary!). She also was never fully relaxed in a bit, as her previous owners had been riding her in bits which were too large for her mouth and far too harsh for their inexperienced hands--and they also used the bit to punish her.

In the bitless she is perfectly relaxed and much lighter to cues than in the bit because she is not distracted by her worry about being banged in the mouth (not that I ever did but her old owners had and she remembered). And yes, she does slide her head right into the bridle; all I have too do is hold it out and she will lower her head right into it. With a bitted bridled she would often raise her head or try to turn away to avoid it.

The Dr. Cook does cost a little more--my Beta was $83. But to me it was more than worth it because my horse is happier than she's ever been. And the Dr. Cook is really versatile. You can use it for lunging, leading, and tying as well as riding. And they have a 30 day money back guarantee, so really you haven't got anything to lose by giving it a try. :)

same for me....I'm very happy concerning my Dr Cooks.....and don't want to go back to a bit....

[Whatanejit]

I'm taking the chance and have ordered a Dr. Cooke's for Cooper after doing lots of reading, having discussions with other horsey people and through No Angel's advice and experiences on this forum and on another one.

Going Treeless too ;)

If you buy the cheapest one on the Dr. Cooke's website and it works they will let you upgrade to the posh one and/ or have your money back.

Despite that, I have also ordered happy mouth for him which is what his previous owner has been schooling him in as a 'just in case'. :cool:

[Whatanejit]

I'm taking the chance and have ordered a Dr. Cooke's for Cooper after doing lots of reading, having discussions with other horsey people and through No Angel's advice and experiences on this forum and on another one.

Going Treeless too ;)

If you buy the cheapest one on the Dr. Cooke's website and it works they will let you upgrade to the posh one and/ or have your money back.

Despite that, I have also ordered happy mouth for him which is what his previous owner has been schooling him in as a 'just in case'. :cool:

[LodgeRopes]

Tuff up - it really depends on the horse and its training :)
Personally me and my horses dont like the DR cook and tend to toss their heads around more in that than in a bit.
But what ever bitless method you choose just remember that as you wouldnt put a bit in an untrained horse and expect it to understand the cues or commands - the same applies to bitless bridles as well. I think its possible for all horses to be ridden safely and in control in a bitless bridle - but only if the horse is taught to be safe and in control. That always comes back to the rider/trainer rather than a piece of equipment :)

[cvb]

tuff_up

I have a variety of bitless, including some of LodgeRopes products ;), but not a Dr Cook.

My current mare seems to go equally well in bitless or bit - though I have noticed that I need to do more work on how I ride and give direction in the "under the chin" bridles like natural hackamore, bosal. We have control but it is not as refined as I am used to with this horse.

My first pony went amazingly well in english hackamore - we did pretty much everything in it, including cross country :D

My second pony was strong in every situation and "went through" various bits like they were butter and he was a hot knife... he did exactly the same the only time I tried him in an english hackamore :rolleyes:

[Tuff_up]

ok my mare has not been ridden in 6 months because she needs more training. its a real bad situation i have got my self into because she is not a real hottie type of horse but she will be 5 in may. i have only had riding lessons for 7 months and am not in riding lessons any more. i have taken horseman ship lessons on how to train a horse and retrained her myself but things happened and we stopped riding so back to retraining in the spring. and i don't like the fact that she hates bits i am going to look at her teeth get them checked but i don't think its going to stop her rearing up.

[cvb]

tuff_up

in your very first post you mention "spooky" - is this the major issue ? you also mention rearing ?

I have a spooky mare but luckily have 35 years of "confident riding" to fall back on (no pun intended in the use of "fall" ;) ) and also another pony I can ride to "reground" myself when thigns got a bit scarey...

Spookiness is something I've been working on and I haven't ridden my mare out for 2 years now - but we have gone for walks together and worked on the whole spooking thing. There's a lot you could do in your retraining that would help you work together more, regardless of whether you use a bit or not.

But to help I think we need to understand the problem a bit better...

[Tuff_up]

she will not rear up when i am riding and the spooking is just because she is young and has not been to places before my question is will i have the same or more control in a bitless if i do run into trouble than with a bit.she rears up when being bridled.

[Kate F.]

The amount of control is down to the training, not the piece of equipment. If a horse is really afraid, it will ignore you regardless of how much pain you inflict on it - and when you ask about how much control you will have with a particular piece of equipment, you are really asking how much pain can this equipment inflict.

Bitless or non-bitless - I like to train my horses to both, and as others have mentioned, there will be a bit of adaptation time and training needed when you switch from one to the other - but the good thing is, if the horse has had issues with one, you might find you can start fresh with the other and train the horse to go the way you want it to more easily without bad memories to overcome.

Cheers

[Crystal Fire]

I agree with Kate. Bitless might be an option for your horse, but you need to know how to train a horse to work that way. I know a lot of people put a Dr Cook on their horse's head and off they go... but I prefer luck to judgement.
I think that you need to adapt to a different style of riding, in all the bitless riding training I've had the idea is to have a relaxed rein until you need it. And to be aiming to be able to have control of your horse mainly with your body, not relying on the reins. I was told in Australia by a man selling Dr Cook's that this was how that bridle is supposed to work, but most people I see using them in this country just use them english-style and don't maintain a relaxed rein. They get on fine, but I feel this will mean that the bridle is not operating in the best pressure and release way that it was designed for.
If you have a young horse that is rearing when the bit goes in, then you really need to look at why. It's got to be either an existing discomfort or pain, or an anticipation of discomfort or pain. Hasn't it?
Oh, if I had a horse leaning in a Dr Cook (which I won't, because I don't use pressure bridles :) ) I might try massaging the rein to make it difficult to lean on, and reward a lack of pressure with still hands and a relaxed rein. Don't know if that's any use to anyone.

[hackedoff]

There are more and more varieties of bitless to chose from (hallelujah!). I usually ride my young cob in a Dr Cook or NoBit but out hacking in a group I bung on an Indian Bosal which gives more frontal signal when I need some sharper brakes. My Welshie was used in a riding school for years and years with some very heavy-handed beginners hanging off his sensitive mouth and you could feel the relief in him the day he went out in a hackamore :) the steering is not as pinpoint as a Dr Cook but he seems to know where I want to go without telling anyway:)
Just picked up on OP- you say your young mare is 'alone and in training'- what do you mean exactly? this may have bearing.

[Tuff_up]

my mare is getting her teeth checked some time when we have enough money but before riding. alone and in training means shes alone no other horses with her only me so she bonds with me instantly i am her only companion and she is in training. i have worked with her on foot pressure i barely use reins according to my friend. i have had 2 different people watch me bridle and they say i bridle fine. i don't like bits personally so thats why i want to go bitless her last owner used the reins because tuffy didn't know any thing about foot pressure.

[Peace]

alone and in training means shes alone no other horses with her only me so she bonds with me instantly i am her only companion and she is in training.

I bet you that's why she's spooky. Horses need a herd - or at least another horse - in order to feel safe. Isolation to them feels very scary. Besides that, young horses like to play and socialize. She'll still listen to you if she has equine companionship - in fact, she may listen better if she's not distracted by worry at being alone all the time.

Is there any way you can provide her with horse companionship?

[Crystal Fire]

I also think that you should find the money to get her teeth checked. It seems only fair to her to make sure that she is comfortable in her mouth. If you can't do that then maybe stop trying to bridle her and concentrate on working bitless, as you seem to like that better anyway.
I don't quite understand your emphasis on he being alone and in training. Does that mean keeping her alone is a temporary thing? Is it somehow associated with her being in training?
As soon as she gets back with equine companionship she will probably find a horse to bond with, and that's only as it should be. If you plan to return her to equine company then it may be worth bearing in mind that the longer horses are left without socialisation with other horses, the more likely you are to get behaviour problems when they go back.

[hackedoff]

alone and in training means shes alone no other horses with her only me so she bonds with me instantly i am her only companion

Erm......this is a new one on me! I think her loneliness could be a big part of the problems you are having. Imagine if you had no other humans to talk to only, say a dog who was your best friend... you would still crave human company wouldnt you, even if the dog were Lassie! does that make sense?

[Tuff_up]

she will not be having other horses as company because she was beat up by one had been shoved through a wire fence by one cut all her front legs and she needs to learn that i am her companion not another horse.when she was with other horses she would not listen to me at all i would round pen her i trained her for 6 months with other horses around but when i rode her in a pasture beside her friends i almost got thrown off she is much nicer alone. i am worried because of her age she is only 5 that if something blows by or a dog runs out will i have control on the road when i trail ride with a bitless. she is not a spooky horse i can walk her by a dead moose and she will not even flinch i have done that before. i have rode her by road kill and baby coyotes shes kicked pop cans around on her first trail ride no problem she didn't flinch drive a huge noisy car by infront of her no problem. she trusts me enough to know she is safe with me. when she does get spooked she runs to me for protection she knows i am safety. I will probably buy another horse next year around this time.

[Peace]

she needs to learn that i am her companion not another horse.

But you're a predator animal. She's a prey animal. Even if you spent 24/7 with her, you just can't fill her need for a herdmate of her own species. And I bet you have to go to school or work or somewhere - then she's completely alone when you're not with her.

Horses do manage to injure one another - it's just an unfortunate part of horsekeeping. But you can't isolate them from one another to prevent that. Well, actually, you can - I know plenty of show horses who aren't allowed company because they might get a scar. But I feel sorry for them.

Some horses do get buddy sour, which is what it sounds like her problem is. There's ways to train her out of that, but you'll never do it without letting her have some buddies to start with.:)

[rianne21]

hey i've ridden in a hackamore bitless before, it was really strange as it works by putting pressure on the poll so u have to be really soft. i think they quite good :0)

[Tuff_up]

i know i know predator animal but she has been doing better and she needs all the attention on me right now. i have been taught by a horse whisperer behaviourist kinda person and she recommends for a horse like this to have some alone time with only the owner and she recommended we leave her alone with only me unstead of buying another horse.

[Crystal Fire]

Well, you could find another "horse whisperer" who would tell you exactly the opposite. I've dealt with some very troubled horses and with all of them the first stage before expecting them to deal with training is to enable them to have relaxation. Relaxation with other horses is a fundamental need/right in my view, but then, I'm not your local horse whisperer :) If your horse won't respond to you when it is allowed to socialise with other horses, then it's not the horse that's the problem, you may need to adjust your training a little.
How about this view? Your horse got injured before because the fencing was unsafe. You say she got caught in wire fencing, well wire fencing and horses isn't the best combination...
This sounds harsh reading it back, I can't word it any milder. Your horse needs her teeth checked, you should find the money for that, and really any other thoughts I could offer you would be based on a horse that isn't isolated (and stabled for how long?). You say you may buy another horse next year, well prepare yourself for some separation anxiety issues etc, because your horse isn't going to know what's hit her if she hasn't had company until then.

[No_Angel]

when i think of 'alone time with the owner' i think of just the horse and the owner bonding, whether it be in the stable grooming or in the arena doing some groundwork so that your alone together and the horse is listening and respecting you.

[Tuff_up]

thanks No Angel cause geesh crystal fire i don't know about you but i am 14 and i have to pay for everything so living in the middle of nowhere school to attend, having personal bills to pay and a horse to look after is not easy with only 50 dollars a month. yep i can't afford boarding,nor another horse, and vets well if you read my other posts i am trying to get enough money for more fencing and farrier and her teeth floated. my horse is very relaxed with other horses she would have never thought of sleeping, resting but now when i am with her she rests, rolls and knows i am there to protect her. she never neighed to me before but now she neighs to me daily she is a people horse i know how some of you are but really i/and everyone else here in my area think my horse being alone for some time would be just fine yep she gets a bit lonley but you really shouldn't accuse me of everything i don't know how much you make or how old you are but i am sure you were 14 and low on cash once. my dream was to have a horse which i am sure was everyones here and my family tried there best to help me but they can't do everything. sorry if i misunderstood but that was harsh crystal fire hopefully i did misunderstand. so for the past while guys ummm my question was should i go out and get that bitless or are there alternatives i am still training my mare and i work well with foot pressures she is learning

[cvb]

tuff up

http://www.fawc.org.uk/freedoms.htm

check out these - I think its in freedom 4 that it quotes social company of own kind.

There has been a tonne of work done on depriving animals of social contact of their own kind. In fact this kind of deprivation is used as torture in humans ! I know a lot of people keep a horse by itself, but its not ideal. They are a highly social creature and being alone is actually highly stressful for them as solo animals tend to be the ones that predators attack. They have no one to take turns to be "on watch" with so have to be alert 24x7.

The thing is that your horse can't learn horse-social behaviour from you - so the issue of getting along with other horses won't get any better.

I know we are kind of getting away from the whole bitted vs bitless question, but as you talked about control, I think a discussion about behaviour does become valid.

As for budgeting for costs etc... how would you feel if you had a toothache but couldn't go to the dentist for a month or so because you didn't have the money ? I appreciate its tough. But its tough for the horse as well, and they don't get to choose - we choose for them.

I just wonder how you could afford a new (bitless) bridle if you can't afford the equine dentist ? :confused:

[Tuff_up]

ok i can't afford either but looking into the future after i get her teeth checked which i have already mentioned all this in the last few quick responses. i understand the relationship of horse and horse but i can't afford another or i would have another see my problem guys no one here needs a pasture cause they have plenty of there own and all the fences with horses in them are full to the max and the other pasture she got ran into a wire fence, i don't like the fencing. i am looking into the future because i will be getting a summer job.

[cvb]

Tuff_up

Can she see other horses ? Touch noses across a fence ? Thats all better than nothing...

When my mare first came home from Sweden, we integrated her in steps with the other two - so initially we separated them into adjoining paddocks at night. She would stand as close as she could get to them, and started to try and get through the fence - so we had to give in and just let them be, or she was going to hurt herself :(

[Tuff_up]

well no she can not see any other horses only smell them but i am trying my best to find her a friend have any inexpensive ways to find a horse yard sharer will not work as i am in the country everyone has yard and a hell of a lot of pasture i was thinking of going to an auction and buying a "no one cares horse" i was told my dads friend got his tennessee walker stud for 75 bucks at an auction it was either him or the packers my horse we think was a rescued PMU foal. heres a pic

http://groups.msn.com/TheFirstHorse/photos.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=13

[cvb]

Tuff Up - cute horse :D

[Peace]

Well, a companion is one option. The problem is though that two horses are expensive to keep - I often hear it said that a horse is the cheapest on the day you buy him.:) Meaning of course that upkeep in the long run is lots and lots more expensive than purchase price. And another danger of "no one cares" horses is that you could wind up with a real head case who might endanger you or your mare. If you decide to go this route you might be better off going to a horse rescue or sanctuary than the auction.

But since you say so many of your neighbors have fenced pasture in which to keep their own horses, why not ask if you can move your mare in with a neighbor's horse? Then she'd have company and you wouldn't have to spend money upgrading fence and stuff like that.:)

[Tuff_up]

i did do that and she got ran into a fence which everyone thought was not there because there were no fence posts CARELESS PEOPLE and i trusted them. my horse is the only horse that has a top of the line fencing all the rest have wire, pieces of the wood splintered not painted and some posts are not even standing. the horses here get no attention i find them escaping all the time and some of them could even have cruelty marked on them example inbedded halter which i cut off (buckles were all rusty). the horses are scared of people in this area. when i was younger i gave them all carrots and apples secretly and thats how i can catch them. i don't know there names but they all have names according to me i gave them all small pet names when i was 4. beautiful horses but i think one is going to the meat packers this summer his name is tazzmanian devil aka tazz known him since i was 3 got bucked off him, got tramplued over by him got my shirt wripped off by him in public but still love em.

[Unbridled]

Tuff Up...I have to say I agree with the others who said your horse needs a companion. Most horses become lonely if kept alone for long periods of time; some of them even become depressed or stressed and can develop behavioral problems. Do you rent the field your horse is in? If so, maybe try renting one that has a couple of horses already in it, then you wouldn't have to worry about a second horse but your own horse wouldn't be lonely.

If you own your own field, how big is it? If you have room for two horses then try putting an ad in the paper to rent your field out. That way you'd get a little extra money a month in board plus your horse would have a friend.

[Crystal Fire]

Well, I don't want to upset any 14yr old, and I tried to make my post as tactful as possible.
Things aren't OK though, you've told us that, your horse rears when you put a bit in her mouth. She hasn't had much exercise for some months. When she went in with other horses she lost it (which isn't surprising) and ran into some stupid fencing.
I can't understand how it comes about that you, at such a tender age, have all the responsibility for the care and paying for this horse. You're not old enough to have a full-time job and some of us struggle when we are :)
You can't do anything about your horse's living conditions because you are only a young girl and powerless to change things. That worries me in case the way she is being kept causes your horse to get more difficult to handle. I hope your local horse whisperer can keep things safe for you and your horse.
As for bits vs bitless, I just wouldn't carry on putting the bit into the mouth of a horse that had such a severe reaction. I would call the dentist and get it checked first. I'm pleased your horse doesn't rear when you are riding, but please bear in mind that everything they do on the ground they are capable of doing when you are on board - particularly if there is a pain issue that isn't being addressed.
In your shoes I'd keep away from the bits and get the groundwork real good. Is she at least getting a good 8 hours turnout and chance to run about on her own?
I know it's nice when your horse whinnys to you when you arrive, but the sad fact is that horses will bond with just about anything if there are no alternatives - even a tractor.
I can see now that you can't afford another horse, you are only 14 for goodness sake, and can't afford to have this one's teeth done. I admire you for soldiering on alone, but heck I don't know what else to suggest to help you. All the very best with your horse. Horses often come right even if circumstances aren't ideal, so your horse might come into that category. But don't be handling her alone if she goes up sometimes, or at least wear a hard hat to lead her.

[Tuff_up]

ok thanks guys today i went and looked around and found my horse sleeping it was pretty cute i think once LAMMLES is up in our town i will find a job there and hopefully get some discounts on horse tack my parents might offer to help with the teeth check hopefully they will sorry if i got angry its just since the drought food has not been cheap here and my last feed i bought the red ants got all into it and ruined half our top quality feed. my feed i have now costed 300.00 and its looks like we need more so anything that means more money is like urggggggggg. its 3.50 a bale and then not to mention her 200.00 rug i got then her 2000.00 saddle, 200.00 breast collar and matching show bridle just to see she hates it. well here is a pic of her just to see what my posh pony looks like and i will she about leasing some land especially when i buy my roundpen (savings account) it will be a young horse training area hotspot. i know this is really out of topic but i am also trying to find a new name for her like a registration name for IGHA so any ideas post em here or pm me her name is tuffy it doesn't need to have anything to do with tuffy though

http://groups.msn.com/TheFirstHorse/photos.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=13

[Wally]

I've been carted more times than I care to remember, every time with a bit in the horse's mouth. I've been dangled on the end of a Chiffney anti rearing bit, they stop a horse rearing don't they, yeah, right, bits give you MORE control, yeah right!

There is no way on this Earth that a little bit of metal in a horse's mouth is going to get him to do anything if he doesn't want to. A horse does what he does because he wants to, if he's scared for whatever reason, be it pain or the unknown sight of something he will go and there's nothing you can do to stop him.

What I do know is for the last 10 years I have been riding a lof of horses bitless and never been truly bolted with!

[Shadowlark]

Hey Tuff,

Sorry you arn't closer to me so I could be of more help to you both. I am currently reworking a stunner of a mare who was broke hard and fast and has panic attacks when her head and especially her ears are touched - at least that was a week ago! Now she is comeing along really well, She allows me to halter her and lead her about and is learning all her ground manners that were skipped in the effort to turn her over quick. Her 15 year old potential owner is super excited to to see her progressing so well! Tomorow night I will be working with her bitless in my Nurtural bridle (similar to a Dr. Cook). As well as doing some sacking out and the like.

Do you have some old hack horse people around who could take a look at her mouth for you? Although they cannot replace a vet, a lot of times they can give you good acurate info like if she DOES need her teeth done. At which point, it will need to be priority I am afraid, even if you can borrow it from your parents or something like that.

Could you offer to lease out part of the field? Run some adds and such? Some sort of just pay for feed deal to get another horse in the field. Often people have babies that need to just grow - or old folks that just need a place to veg and are looking for cheap places. Try placing an add in the Buysell (bargain finder) it's free to place on-line. or look for a pony or a mini or some such - a lot of times you can find em for free. But yeah, you will be looking at still more money here.. it is another mouth to feed and another in need of vet care no matter how you look at it. Fort Macload's prices are up right now.. and horse demand is really high so there isn't a lot going thru in that ridiculously low amount right now..so I wouldn't get my hopes up about finding anything in that range.

Sorry the thoughts here are somewhat disjointed,

[Jumping Genius]

i have to say you are taking this quite seriously ands that is good. I habve started riding my horse in a bitless and he likes it a lot. Of course i ride in a prelli ha;ter but he responds a lot better than he normallt does and you dou have more control.

[cvb]

T-U

I was watching a programme on TV last night - its called "Its me or the dog"...

As you can imagine, its about people and dogs with behaviour issues. This particular one - they had 3 dogs, including two very boisterous and energetic labradors. And the wife stayed at home with a little girl while hubby was out at work.

The dogs were so crazy when they went out that it was too much for the wife (and she couldn't leave the child anyway) so these dogs were in the whole time. If they saw another dog they were even more crazy. It it was becoming dangerous for the little girl, so they were having to think about rehoming at least one of the dogs.

Thing is that once they got some control over them and started to walk them, and get them used to other dogs - it all became "no big deal" and got a whole load better. (tho it was still being worked on at the end).

By now you're probably wondering what this has to do with you... well I was thinking about what you said about your horse paying more attention to the other horses than to you.

Like these dogs, if your horse does not see another horse - or only rarely - it will be a really big deal when she does ! Isolation may make that problem worse rather than better :eek: And I know you've said that its not that easy to have company where she lives - but you also said earlier on that keeping her alone was a deliberate thing to get her to focus and bond with you...

I really hope you can find some way to socialise this horse, despite the limits of your grazing - but my worry is that the first time it happens she may be quite a handful, and I hope you won't feel that the answer to this is further isolation :(

In the programme about the dogs - they shut the husband in a boring room for a morning so he could realise what it was like for his dogs. (He kept coming up with excuses for not walking them). I am not suggesting you should actually isolate yourself for a day - but do think through how you would react if you were in that situation... try and "be" your horse in your mind...

[Tuff_up]

well guys so you've got me convinced i need another pony and when i get her teeth done i will try the bit again if she has problems still i think ill try bitless it will cost alot of money but hey if it doesn't work out then i guess another to add to my collection or to ebay. for now she will have to wait i am not riding so it won't mean alot i will try the boarding thing but i have mentioned it and the next thing you know they build a fence and start boarding unstead of boarding there horse here its totally weird but well its there choice. thanks guys and yeah i really feel sorry for my girl but there isn't much i can do i don't even have enough money right now to buy her a shelter none the less for 2 horses. her feed is great though top quality and she stays quite warm with her blanket so the wind and such doesn't bother her. so i am caring for her if any of you get the idea that she is being neglected shes not. only saying this because i am ranting on how poor i am and thats only because i couldn't go for less then top quality.again thanks

[hackedoff]

TU it seems you think people here have been harsh with you about how your horse is being kept; also maybe when you asked a question about bitless bridles you thought that would be the only thing anyone here would talk about in relation to your mare.
Well, maybe the reason you got the answers you did was because you posted this on the 'Natural Horsemanship' board. 'Natural Horsemanship' (NH) covers many different ways of doing things, but it does not mean that those of us who follow it think that riding bareback in a bitless bridle is the cure for everything!:) Certainly in my case, if I am having problems with a horse I look at how it is kept, fed, handled- I look at the horse as a whole being, and the tack used is just part of the picture.
I think we have tried to be honest in our opinions of why you are running into problems with your horse, it is obvious in your position you have to make the best out of a bad situation.
I wish you well.
Hackedoff.

[Shadowlark]

Hey Tuff :)

Like I say.. if you were closer I would be over in a sec to help you out. Heck I coulda loand you a horse to keep her company and settle her down.

Don't you ever feel guilty about her being out! The more naturaly kept the better :) Splash has decided to build his manure pile in the shed and stand out. Whack job..

Did I give you the link to the Canadian Manufacturer?
Get her teeth delt with or at least get someone to have a peek (an instructor maybe?) before you spend the money on the bridle tho.. I think the last time I had a float done was 150$ about what the bridle will cost - but there was no travel cost as we had about 8 done at once so our vet waved it. You see if her teeth are off, or sharp or some such thing - it will start to effect her eating also, which means all the money you are spending on feed will go for naught!

[Tuff_up]

yeah guys i feel guilty but you guys did help me and thank you again and wow this was a pretty long post.

[cvb]

T-U

MMm - I do wonder if we have been quite tough with you...given your initial question was just about going bitless !

Its just that sometimes I find that I can spend money on a "sticking plaster" for a problem when what I need to do is spend money on getting rid of what is causing the problem in the first place...

So I only want to make sure that someone with limited funds gets to spend it effectively ;)

(pretty much we ALL have limited funds)

[LodgeRopes]

In support of CVB's post......
break it down to the basics. try to understand what is happening.
Bitless is all about feel........
We make a lot of gear that may or may not help a rider get the real feel.....ask for a lead....if it comes , you can feel it.

[Tuff_up]

we are getting a lammles in spruce grove and they are looking for workers so guess who is going to be making a resume? hopefully for summer i'll get a few hundred for working then i will be able to get her teeth done and all that Jazz maybe even a horse. i think i will try working tuff with just her halter on and see how she response and if she does pretty good i'll go and buy the bridle. so guys with bitless how are you liking yours and what do you use i know some people say dr.cook but i have talked to the nurtural bridle maker Zoe Brooks on email and she says her bridle worked pretty good on her less than 50 rides mare so i don't really know.:rolleyes:

[alfi-social]

I'd just like to add to this thread that all bits are not alike, and a plain jointed snaffle is quite a severe bit due to its "nutcracker" action.A double jointed bit like a french link is milder. A bit that is designed for a particular horses mouth
might be even better. Some horses alsomay prefer rubber, plastic, copper alloy or sweet iron just as some horses may go better in different types of bitless bridles. BWs Alfi-social