To buy or not to buy ?

[stormandsummer]

Ok here is my background, been riding on and off all my life, i am not the most confident of riders but i am now 35 yrs old, i recently got back into the saddle after a nasty car accident but now i am wondering if it is time to become an owner :D

I have a horse in mind but he may not be up for sale for another two years, he is currently a riding school horse and i have known him for five years and ridden him most of the time as he is such a dear, he is 100% safe, he has been lame a mere once in 5 years and been healthy all the time. Never spooks, well he pretends too sometimes:rolleyes: 100% stable manners, listens well and has great brakes too but more importantly i feel safe and happy to ride him. I have a great bond with this horse.

Okay the problem is i fear losing this perfect horse for me, the stables i ride at known i am interested in a vague way but i want to do something to secure a possible sale when he is due to be retired in may be two years time. but due to my accident i have a very weak back and mucking out will be hard and painful etc for me now but i could build this up in time.

Firstly how do i approach YO about this and be taken seriously ?

I already feel that i would want to leave him at present yard as i know everyone there and it is a friendly yard etc, with school and great off road hacks too and when i chatted with YO daughter briefly about this, i said i would feel happier knowing everyone knew him and what was best for him, she liked my attitude.

Full livery is expensive ( although i might be able to do some diy in some way )so i was wondering do i buy now and allow him to be used on working livery until retirement? easing me into the cost of horse ownership slowly ?

Or approach YO to either loan or part loan or share (although what the difference would be i am not too sure about, so advice needed here too :rolleyes:) and do this with a first refusal to buy when he is retired, is this possible would a YO consider this ??

I have so many questions as regards to the best options but thought i would ask everyones advice and take it from there

[flump1967]

I think the buy him now with an agreement to part livery could well be acceptable to the YO. Sounds like he is a valuable horse to them (sturdy and safe cobs always are) but they recognise he is coming to a time when he will need a quieter life. Working livery would mean they get some cash, plus income on his keep and can slowly ease of his work levels.
From your perspective it would also ease you into things. Plus, I would think that time for your boy to adjust would be a good thing too. Its a big change for a horse who has benn worked reguarly in a RS to go to being a privately owned horse who is most often ridden a lot less. I am sure he is very sensible but it would still be a good precauiton to ensure you can "get up to speed" with him whilst he is in the same lifestyle he has been used to.
One thing to bear in mind though - when I used to work in a RS many, many moons ago some of the girls who had horses on working livery used to find it hard seeing others riding their beloved - especially if they didn't like the riders ways/ abilities. This is something to get your head around.
If you are sure this lad is the one for you then I personally would go for it as you obviously feel happy and confident in him and to me that feeling is worth its weight in gold.:)

[stormandsummer]

Thanks flump, very sensible advice, the issue of him being used as a riding school horses was discussed yesterday and i know he is only used may be 6 hours to 8 hours a week max, this is something the YO feels very strong about not over working the horse, he is not all that popular with other riders at all as he is so laid back some find him frustrating to push him forward and think he is lazy, i expect some people want a horse that will tank off around the school and on hacks and excite them :rolleyes:

I know when he is on summer rest and in the fields for his holidays even when he comes back he does not change, thats just him, one laid back horse :D he has been consistant for 5 years, when i rode him yesterday he had not been out for two weeks and he was fine :D

More often than not he is used for the wee small kids and he is quite wide and even if the wee darlings constantly kick him, as small kids learning to ride do he is not bothered, most of the time the saddle gets the kidding not the horse LOL

He is somewhat still sensitive to small leg movements and i have always ridden him with gentle squeezes and get more responce than when i have seen adults and kids flapping their legs on him.

I really can't fault this horse in any way, i have jumped him, ridden him bareback, spent hours with him following me round the yard like a dog in tow, YO has always laughed at this.

I would completly trust the YO if i had him working livery as i know if any horses is unhappy they come first not the clients.

I think i am anxious, very anxious about owning any horse because of the responsibilty of horse ownership, i am very confused right now :rolleyes:

[RustyMary]

A good idea might be to have a heart-to-heart with the YO over a cup of coffee and really tell her how you feel, plans, hopes, dreams, possibilities. If you have as good a relationship as you say she will be able to see your point of view too and together you can come up with a plan that is good for you, her and the horse. If you are wanting to keep the horse at her yard, it will be good for her to make future plans, and if you have some kind of 'part-time' agreement, however that is worked out, you will have time to ease yourself back into things without feeling pressured and putting your body (and mind!) under too much stress. Your ride went really well yesterday and that's fantastic, but another day it may not go so well for some reason and you may need to take some time off again - it would be good in that eventuality to have the option of backing off a little from the more strenuous side of horse ownership.

[Skib]

This is (or can be) a difficult situation. Particularly if two clients at a yard have their eye on the same horse. Which is sort of what happened with the young mare I like to hack, at the point when it seemed possible that she might not be up to the hours needed for RS work.
There was then some talk about my sharing this mare during the winter months, the idea came from the YO and again that suggestion was withdrawn by the other YO somewhat crossly because that mare was in regular demand for other clients. You not only need to be precise about what is involved in any share or option to purchase, but you need to know who actually owns the horse in question and is taking the decisions, otherwise all is confusion.
If you are seriously interested in buying this horse, I would write a letter to the yard owner expressinging your interest and asking for first refusal to purchase should the yard decide to sell or retire the horse. But there is no guarantee you will get an answer. It is not uncommon for a client became totally attached to a RS horse and to write begging letters.
If you have heard there is a definite date at which the horse would be sold you could ask for confirmation that the horse will be retired? You could express willingness to leave the horse in livery or working livery at the yard, but that would depend on whether the yard had a livery place and details would have to be agreed.
It is not a good idea to commit yourself to buying a horse at any price (as opposed to first refusal). Vetting is still important. And you have no idea of the price that will be asked.
My own Yard wanted £10,000 for a mare I sometimes ride - she's nice but not remarkable - and the YO explained to me that that was the price he needed to ask for any of their horses. That a new riding school horse would cost him £3,000, cost another £2,000 to train to hack safely and that to compensate for that horse's earnings he would need to ask £10,000. His maths sounded very reasonable until you start to think of the open market and what £10,000 will buy. I am not such a poor rider that I can only ride one particular horse and if I were spending £10,000 I wouldnt buy a RS horse that had a previous injury or was nearing the end of its working life. I could buy a lovely, well trained American quarter horse for that price. (Dream on!)
Women get to feel dependent on one horse, and it will spoil your pleasure in riding again, if you somehow believe that your happiness depends on this one particular animal.

[stormandsummer]

Oh don't get me wrong i am happy to ride any horse and will and have done so, all is not based on this horse for my riding, however i was thinking of my long term plans to be an owner and what i would be doing with the horse, my intention is to be a happy hacker, i have no intentions to show, jump etc i have done all that in my many years of riding etc

I know he is good for me right now but come a few months time when physically my body is stronger again, i would and am willing to ride any horse. Always have been. So it is not all or nothing with this horse, ok yes he pulls my heart strings but sometimes all of us fall for our four legged friends.

There is alot to consider and i want to be " sensible" about it, and weigh up everything:rolleyes:

I know it may look like i have ridden once and want to become an owner, but i have been around horses since i was three and may now it is the time to consider full filling a life long dream of being a horse owner :D

Although as mentioned i would consider a part loan or share with the current yard etc, it is just a matter of considering what is financially the best route to take, I have already saved into my horse fund but i am considering is it not better to risk this horse being sold on when retired, and waiting or take part share with a view to buy later :rolleyes:

I was just wondering how others would feel about this ???

My dream has always been to own this boy :rolleyes: but i need to be practical and not let my emotions blur my judgement

[Skib]

Sorry, I didnt mean to be negative. Just to tell you that I myself had found the whole situation upsetting - with different people in the YO's family saying different things and another client apparently totally obsessed with the same horse, and writing letters to which she got no reply.
The only good thing was that years of reading Horse and Hound had taught me that £10,000 was silly money. The yard staff were gob-smacked. it is different for you as you know the yard and the people - but I still think it not a bad idea to write a letter.

[stormandsummer]

Oh Skib - No needed to apoligize, we have these forums so we can all share our experiences with horses and those others involved with our quest,hobbies and dreams.

I am glad you bought this up, as this was a concern of mine that as an RS horse i would face the possibility of a higher price to pay, so thank you you have brough this to my attention, that it does happen and i need to be aware it is ok to wonder these things but thanks to you for sharing:D I will be aware that this does really happen. Thank you.

Purchasing any horses holds many pitfuls and we all need to share the potential issues, with such things we would all remain none the wiser.

I have time to think, gather all the information possible and weigh up what is the right thing for me to and not let my heart rule my head.

We live each day to live and learn and share too :D

[Shadowlark]

he is the right horse now.. but will he be say a year from now? Will you want more get up and go later on? Just something to think about. What will YOU be wanting to do. Take a really hot bath with some chocolate and wine and give it some GOOD solid thought. Right now you are in a lovely set up as that horse is a stepping stone to get you back on track, but when you are up to going full speed will he hold you back?
My dear young friend has reached this point with her darling first horse and finds herself in a difficult situation as she LOVES her 20 something mare dearly, the horse has taught her TONS, but now she finds herself at a level that the mare can't keep up with and is using my boy instead. The family is only able to afford one horse so now the dear old lady is looking for a home and hopefully a new little girl to teach all the lessons she has to give. Meanwhile her owner is heart broken to be saying good bye (hahaha and so am I!!)

I realize you have probably given this some thought already I just wanted to add it in a little stronger to your thinking process :) It is so easy to fall in love with them wether they are school horses or our own doesn't really seem to matter :)

[stormandsummer]

shadowlark Thanks for the very sound advice but i am 36 and no young chick and i hope to grow old gracefully with this horse, and I have always dreamt of being a happy hacker wondering the fields sat upon a ploddery horse:D

Gone are my days of being enthusatic about jumping, competing and doing all those things many advance too, i too feel like i should be retired and with my back and other issues now, I did all those things years ago and this horse will not be retired for another two years so by then i will be 38 :eek: and want a quiet life then, actually i do now LOL.

I am thinking along the lines of approaching the YO with a possible part loan now, then full loan and then may be a year of ownership with working livery and break him into his retirement and me being his new mum and carer and building myself up more mentally to being a horse owner in two yrs time when he comes to retirement the last thing i want to do is rush and have regrets and not be the best possible new owner for the beautiful boy :D

I will let you know when i have spoken to YO

thanks everyone :D

[Shadowlark]

Sounds great just wanted to be sure you had given it some thought :)

When I first started up again I didn't want to do anything other then much around and hack out and such.. now I find I am being bitten by "other" things nothing seriously just wanting to dabble in this and that. Splash however is up to the challenge and seems to like the diversity also :)

All the best! I hope this all works out for you, sounds like you have a great plan in the works

[Caz&Irena]

Not saying that this will be anything like your situation but I'll tell you my experience!

My husband and I bought our first horse from the riding school that we had attended for 3 years, she was the horse my husband used to ride. We thought the owners were good friends of ours but we paid £2500 for a 19yr old horse that they told us was 9! This was in 1997 so £2.5k was quite a lot of money to pay. We only had her for 5 yrs until she was sadly pts due to an injury that she never recovered from. We never had her vetted because we were told that the school horses had regular vet checks but we found out later that was all fabricated. She had COPD, windgalls and arthritis in the coffin joints of both front feet. We found all this out when she started showing problems, don't get me wrong we loved this horse and we would probably have still bought her knowing her age etc. although we may have tried to get the price down. It was only after we had owned her for 2yrs that we found out from their daughter in law that they had bought her from a hunting yard for £200, that she was practically given away as she was a failed brood mare and was a roarer (diminished breathing when exercised). They had bought her at 14yrs old and had owned her for 5 years. Apparently, they also had her papers but wouldn't let us have them because it had her date of birth on it. What really annoyed me was they tried to sell us the horse that I used to ride as a 13yr old (£1500) but someone let me know that he was in fact 27! And that was after we had bought the first one! They said it would be nice for me and hubby to be able to ride out together:rolleyes:

I guess all I'm saying to you is be careful. And make sure you have the horse vetted, it doesn't have to pass with flying colours but at least you will know what you are taking on if you decide to buy!!

[stormandsummer]

Thanks to everyone, i have thought long and hard and decided to loan the horse first, part time first then build this up, just to make sure this is the right direction for me to be going towards I just want to be sensible about all this :rolleyes: and do the right thing for me and the horse, will be sorting out contract with YO in the next couple of weeks :D


thanks everyone :D

[Big Ears]

horses like this are hard to find so go for it - it is hard to find a sensible hack and if he is what you want, and you enjoy him, then do what you need to do to secure him. his owner hopefully cares for him and wants to do the best for him.

[stormandsummer]

Bigears - yes horses like that are hard to find, in all my many years of riding i have never felt such a bond with one horse like i have with him, and he is perfect in every way, 100% bomb proof, can hack alone, leader or at the back, can jump although gone are my days of wanting this, he is so laid back he makes me laugh so much, he takes everything in his stride, gives great kisses also LOL he is very responsive too when he wants to be :rolleyes: LOL

I think I have decided on the share first just to make sure i want the full time commitment of horse ownership and that i know enough to keep the boy safe too, i am starting to feel excited about it all, although my non horsey friends think I am mad but what do they know LOL

:rolleyes: I wonder if my Oh realises he will become second best to a horse- may be there should be a forum for partners of horse owners where they can chat while were all with our horses LOL

[Caz&Irena]

Glad you are going down that route and not committing until you are sure. I must admit my girl was the sweetest mare you could find all 17.2hh of her! We never regretted buying her for one moment, just cross that they saw us coming:mad: I'm sure you are making the right decision horses like this are like gold dust and if you are lucky enough to have one it really is the icing on the cake. Bet you can't wait:) By the way, if there is a forum for partners of horsey people I'm sure my hubby will be the first to join:D