What is 'setting fair' in the stable

[Arabesque]

Help, I can define skipping out, mucking out and bedding down, but what on earth is setting fair?!

[bexj]

I always understood Setting Fair to sort of be the last check of the morning/afternoon to make sure everything was in order, that the yard was tidy, everything put away etc etc. Not sure if that is right though!

[Kenzie]

I thought it was putting the bed down (presupposing you had banked the bed up to let the floor dry and ventilate the stable generally) and settling the horse in for the night, ie checking his rugs weren't rubbing or hadn't slipped, putting in the night time haynet, doing a last skip out (if the bed was already down) etc. I guess it more or less means putting the horse to bed on your last visit of the day.

[Wally]

Why, in the name of everything sacred are they still using medaevil language in horse work?????

Setting fair means leaving the yard tidy! The sooner this out dated speak was consigned to the bin the better.


:( :( :( :(

[Peanut]

Wally, what's wrong with good old fashioned speak?! I think it's a rather charming term. :o :D

[Tim]

I agree.

[Wally]

Okay know it, but who speaks like that now?

I get feedback from folk who object to the horseworld speaking like this as it is EXCLUSIVE to those who are just starting out, it is bemusing and, I think, rude as it makes folk unable to understand.

If I say Check the horse's near, fore hoof, they have to stop and think about it, if I say have a look at his front, left foot you can go there quickly and get on with the job.

Horses have a bad image as it is in the eyes of Joe public without keeping up with silly terms. Set fair????, when I yell at my 13 yo son to tidy his bedroom, I don't tell him to set it fair! "tidy your ruddy bedroom up you little tyke!" there no romm for misunderstandings there! :D :D :D

[Tim]

Ah but there are many occupations and pastimes/hobbies that have their own sayings and language. Sailing is another one, with terms like 'harden your mainsheet', 'starboard your helm' etc, they are traditional and come from way back, like the terms used in horseriding. It is not valid to change the entire esoteria just because beginners might find it confusing, it's all part of it, and people enjoy learning it just as much as doing it. It would be a shallow and less rewarding engagement if we had to modernise the terms to common language just to satisfy a few critics.

[becs]

Interesting point Tim, but...you could argue that it depends on how open-minded those people are, & maybe some areas are more resistant to change. In nursing, we were told off for hiding in medi-speak, in case of misunderstanding by both professionals and patients. And as for yachting, maybe that's why some of us escaped and fled happily back to horses... ;-) Ready about, lee-ooh!

[Wally]

Yeah, the mutiny on the Bounty might never have happened!

Frances' man is the nicest chap you could wish to meet, ....on land....ask Frances what he's like sailing! Capt'n Fletcher, giving out a lick of the cat to everyone! :D :D ;)

[HairyCob]

Darn, much as it galls me to do this.. I'm in agreement with Tim:eek:

I never did the 'pony club' thing, never studied anything the BHS way, but I still 'skip out', 'quarter the horses' and 'set fair' at the end of the day....

Call me old fashioned, but I like 'our language' and I'm far more likely to learn something PROPERLY if I have to look up a couple of terms... but I do say left/right fore/hind though, can't be doing with the nearside/offside thing, couldn't ever make much sense of it!;)

Oh, and as a nurse, I can relate to Bec's being told off for hiding behind medi-speak and confusing people, and much as I try not to do it, I'm still found guilty of confusing patients, other professionals and relatives with abbreviations and the like at least once a week!

Still, I'm not obsessive, I only skip out QDS, set fair OD and quarter the horses PRN;)

[Sondra]

Ok, where is the dictionary?
I understand mucking-out, but what is skipping-out and quartering the horse?
I find the term "setting fair" quite charming espeically since I communicate in "American" English.
In fact, I share your quips and comments with my friends because the are so civilized!

[Wally]

Quartering - showing a horse a brush and making him think he's been groomed! :D

Strapping- making a load of dust in your stable by brushing the horse to within an inch of his life......only for him to roll when you put him back out! :D :D

Skipping out-removing poos as fast as the horse produces them for you in his stable! :)

Oh there are loads of them,

[claire hodgson]

I still use offside/nearside - in relation to the wheels/sides of the car, as well as the horse and her feet.

Every walk of life has its own language and translating it is sometimes difficult, but no reason why the terms should be changed because people who aren't into whatever it is don't understand it.

[becs]

That's brilliant Hairy Cob, very funny.

Now you make me realise what a sad soul I am - with memory loss (it all went at 40) I have to keep a pony diary, or I forget from one year to the next how I coped with their various crises...well, the diary probably reads like a nursing care plan/notes , eg has PU - NAD, BO (during colic), cream applied BD for 14/7, calm nocte etc. No hope eh?

[Wally]

Not saying they should be changed I always use near and off when driving, but when I am teaching I use left and right and interchange it as much as possible so folk aren't daunted, What I object to is certain walks of equestrian life using it to the exclusion of learners and NOT explaining themselves.

If I taught folk in entirely equine terms they'd get nowhere except mind boggled.

[Miriam]

He he have to agree with Wally. Give me the good english of left and right. Although I can skip out and muck out. I groom the horse not quarter it. Would hate to tell Charlie to uarter the horse. It's been bad enough telling her her raidiator in her room needs bleeding. The looks I get. In fact she has asked me to stop saying it. Can just imagine the tears when I tell her to quarter the horse :D

[artemis]

That's all very well, but I never remember which is right & which is left:D When I was learning to drive I had to write a large L & R on my hands.

[Tim]

That's all very well, but I never remember which is right & which is left:D When I was learning to drive I had to write a large L & R on my hands.

I've still got L and R on my Wellies...:D

[Miriam]

artemis I used to hvae that trouble when learning to drive Copz (owned now by Jennj on here) before Jenn bought him. Susan would tell me to right and I'd go left. since driving Rhi I'v learnt my left and right

[Miriam]

I've still got L and R on my Wellies...:D


My daughter has left and right on her dance shoes :D

[artemis]

Miriam, I still have to think about it. & yes I've turned right when told to go left.

[Afellpony]

This really is a saying out of the ark! It was in vogue when I was a beginner long, long ago. I always understood it to mean that after the box had been mucked out, aired etc while the horse was out working, the bed was relaid before the horse returned. Any 'loose ends' such as banks made up and the bed generally tidied.

[Wally]

Near and off is easier when driving, Near is "near " the curb and off is "Off" into the oncoming traffic!

[Esther.D]

I used to put coloured tape on my reins when doing driving trials - that way I could match red with red and white with white on the 'gates' of the obstacle without havoing to remember my rights and lefts under pressure :D

[Wally]

What a great idea!

[sidesaddlelady1]

Okay know it, but who speaks like that now?

I get feedback from folk who object to the horseworld speaking like this as it is EXCLUSIVE to those who are just starting out, it is bemusing and, I think, rude as it makes folk unable to understand.

If I say Check the horse's near, fore hoof, they have to stop and think about it, if I say have a look at his front, left foot you can go there quickly and get on with the job.

Horses have a bad image as it is in the eyes of Joe public without keeping up with silly terms. Set fair????, when I yell at my 13 yo son to tidy his bedroom, I don't tell him to set it fair! "tidy your ruddy bedroom up you little tyke!" there no romm for misunderstandings there! :D :D :D
Off-side and nearside should be known to drivers and road users as they are widely used in that context. If you say "near-side" then you avoid dithering over such questions as "his left or mine?" or worse, the twit who guesses - wrong!

I didn't realise that such terms as "setting fair" and "strapping" etc were considered archaic. Every yard I've ever ridden on has used them. Would you suggest that climbers or sailors, for example, refrained from sport-specific, technical terms? Should we find other, dumbed down, words for canter, trot, or even use foot instead of hoof? One of the pleasures of learning something new is getting a grip on the vocabulary - perhaps we should be concentrating on making sure instructors explain these terms properly (which a half way decent instructor will do).

[sidesaddlelady1]

He he have to agree with Wally. Although I can skip out and muck out. I groom the horse not quarter it. Would hate to tell Charlie to uarter the horse. It's been bad enough telling her her raidiator in her room needs bleeding. The looks I get. In fact she has asked me to stop saying it. Can just imagine the tears when I tell her to quarter the horse :D
"Give me the good english of left and right." And if you are speaking to a dyslexic or discalculate child or adult?

[Wally]

In an ideal world where you are on a busy yard where everyone is a KEEN learner, everone listens and takes in what you have said. On a yard where folk want to learn, fine and dandy.

I can come out with more gobbledey-gook than most. But when you are dealing with trippers and kids who are there for the ride and the ride only, you need to make yourself clear and sometimes quickly. If you get into the habit of using too many technical terms you will be off putting to the first time tripper/trekker.

It has its place, but not on the busy, yard where you may well be dealing with total rookies, you make yourself sound as if there is more to riding than there really is.

Riding and horses must be promoted in plain English and made accessible to the casual inquirer. There is nothing about dumbing it down, it is making folk feel at ease, including them. Later on you can throw in the old fashioned terms and educate, but first you must include and make folk feel the understand.

If I started taking to you about the 5th wheel on a cart you'd all think I was daft!

[sidesaddlelady1]

In an ideal world where you are on a busy yard where everyone is a KEEN learner, everone listens and takes in what you have said. On a yard where folk want to learn, fine and dandy.

I can come out with more gobbledey-gook than most. But when you are dealing with trippers and kids who are there for the ride and the ride only, you need to make yourself clear and sometimes quickly. If you get into the habit of using too many technical terms you will be off putting to the first time tripper/trekker.

It has its place, but not on the busy, yard where you may well be dealing with total rookies, you make yourself sound as if there is more to riding than there really is.

Riding and horses must be promoted in plain English and made accessible to the casual inquirer. There is nothing about dumbing it down, it is making folk feel at ease, including them. Later on you can throw in the old fashioned terms and educate, but first you must include and make folk feel the understand.

If I started taking to you about the 5th wheel on a cart you'd all think I was daft!
But where do you draw the line?

[HairyCob]

I totally agree Wally, with trippers/trekkers and total beginners, you have to be clear, concise and easily understood, for safety reasons if nothing else.

BUT.... in the main WE aren't trippers or trekkers, and generally speaking the total beginners who have enough about them to find and use New Rider, are keen and enthusiastic to learn, so why not keep 'our' language and terminology and be proud of it?

Must dash, need to quarter Dolly, skip out and set fair before bed....:p

[Tim]

...But when you are dealing with trippers and kids who are there for the ride and the ride only, you need to make yourself clear and sometimes quickly.

That's a fair point and gives a dimension to your argument. I think, if you apply it to just such occasions it wouldn't go wrong, but in general and with 'regular' horse people it is better to keep tradition. If a given person is 'just having a go' at horse riding then all is well with the world.

[Wally]

That's it you see, I have been in a world where I, as a horse person, am looked upon as a horse riding, upper class, rich-bitch, elitist horsey person. I have lots of horses, and carts so Joe public comes to a conclusion.

The BHS does little to make riding accessible to all by perpetuating this image. Those who know me know I am none of the above, so I strive to come across to folk as a normal human who speaks English, not horsey.

I have not noticed anyone on NR using anything but ordinary terms. "Set fair" never crops up, only when folk don't know what it means.

So, when I ask you to nip out and have a look at the 5th wheel, would you know, WITHOUT GOOGLE, what I am on about?

[eml]

Like Wally I tend to have one 'speak' for horse people and one for teaching. Have you ever tried to give a history of some of these expressions, ok for forelock and other old english, all the indian derived words, but get me on letters of the school and german military ranks and I gaurentee everyone will fall asleep.

If there was a mastermind in horse trivia I reckon I would do well :D

[Smoore]

Quarter the horse! I always thought that applied to grooming the horse in sectoins when still rugged so that it remained warm. Easy mistake :)

[Frances]

I find jargon unnecessary. I am a keen member of the Plain English Campaign and would advise everyone to join

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/

From their website: "Plain English Campaign is an independent pressure group fighting for public information to be written in plain English. We have more than 10,000 registered supporters in 80 countries.

'Public information' means anything people have to read to get by in their daily lives.

'Plain English' is language that the intended audience can understand and act upon from a single reading."

So when you talk in jargon, you exclude people, you are also compromising their safety because they may not have understood your jargon and, in my humble opinion, you are making an already badly represented sport by the media (you must be posh if you have a horse!) into an elitist one.

Sailing is the same and I am fed up of people shouting "pull in that sheet". What sheet? Why can't they say rope? It makes you feel small for not understanding and the power trip and condensencion of someone explaining what a "sheet" is, or "setting fair" or whatever is not nice.

In this world where everyone has a voice, everyone should at least try and talk the same language - PLAIN ENGLISH (or plain Spanish or plain whatever) but not jargon to alienate others so that you can feel big and superior about it.

Just my two pence worth!

Frances

[Tim]

From their website: "Plain English Campaign is an independent pressure group fighting for public information to be written in plain English. We have more than 10,000 registered supporters in 80 countries.

'Public information' means anything people have to read to get by in their daily lives.



So, you would say that people need a clear explanation of horse and sailing terms to get by in their daily lives?? I think not. You are confusing the issue by drawing 'general' information into esoteric information. The average person on the street who is not involved in horses, (or sailing), cares not a jot about what language is used, it makes no difference. If you are promulgating the sterilisation of interests and hobbies just to satisfy the masses, then it is out of order. Nobody would feel 'big' about correcting the misunderstandings of anybody involved in any given pastime/sport. Lets take your argument to it's logical and very simple conclusion with an example: Wimbledon tennis. Love would have to be changed to nil, can you see the tennis fraternity accepting that? Why should any organisation or tradition change just to suit the ignorance of people who don't want to know? If people become interested enough to take part in something, then it is no problem to learn the 'jargon' as you put it, and it makes for a fulfilling experience.

Just as an edit, a 'sheet' is called a sheet for a reason, just like a halyard is so named for a good reason, and the only rope on a boat is the bell rope....

[Wally]

Neither would the average person in the street want be drawn into a horse debate if they immediately felt they were not INCLUDED.

It's the average person in the street we need to win over, they are the car driver, the next £ in the riding school pocket!

It is the MASSES we need to get on our side, one more of us and one less of "them"

I HATE TENNIS, you can't make me like it, it's for the very reason we are debating this that I cannot STAND TENNIS! I am Joe public when it comes to tennis! Cricket is another one, googlies???? Silly mid off???? I am excluded in tennis and cricket, I don't get the feeling I am wanted in the game

So nobody wants to look ant my 5th wheel then???

[Wally]

I have a 5th wheel which is the envy of many folk!

[Esther.D]

I know what it is :feelsverysmug: :D either that or I am sadly deluded and wrong :p

[Tim]

It is the MASSES we need to get on our side, one more of us and one less of "them"



Are you imagining this 'them and us' dichotemy? I've never seen it in the horse world we have here, most 'Joe Public' are more than happy to talk about the horses and show a genuine interest without the terminology getting in the way at all. In fact, whilst out hacking on a fine English summers day, many walkers will be encountered, and the ones with kids are the ones most interested, the kids love the horses. There have been a few adults who have become 'converted' to horse riding just from seeing horses go past, I was one of them. Semantics doesn't come into it, unless you bring it in to it.

[Esther.D]

You may not have met it Tim but I have certainly encountered it. And it is very off-putting for adult novices sometimes - I know when Stephen started riding again 5 or 6 years ago now he was mocked something rotten by hoards of small girls when he wasn't familiar with some of the horsey terms and felt awkward asking, he had me to translate as I was brought up on good pny club jargon but I have met other adult novices who felt very intimidated by it. Obviously that is partly a yard issue, but while I like some of the traditions I see nothing wrong with a bit of plain English too.

[eml]

Smoore you are actually right that is the definition of quartering. The quick brushover ,hoof clean, eyes nose dock while keeping horse warm lifting quarter of the rug at a time.

Now don't start me off or you will all have definitions of strapping, banging and various other archaic terms!

Old me..no just like history ( I collect old horse text books and am fascinated by how our relationship with horses change.)

[Wally]

So my good man, jump on the "tiger" seat, after checking the "5th wheel" Make sure the horse you have "put to" works in "all gears". Are all the "mountings" clean?

Make sure you have put the "lazy wheeler" in his corret position, But you'll know where that is naturally? As will you know where to put the "swing pair" And watch those "floating leaders"

You are not an acomplished driver, as I see you use "pinned ribbons" And a "Frog" and you are constantly "ringing the bells"

Have you checked the "futchels" after changing to the "splinter bar"? Have you put the "whipple tree" away? Now to make things easier we will have the team "short harnessed" toady.

Don't forget to "stamp the footboard" when you use the "Short Tommy" it will save you time later on.

Would you like a driving lesson??? :D :D :D Plenty of folk know of what I speaK!

[Wally]

My fave sport is private driving. It is a test of your historical knowledge coupled with turnout and training traditions. Immaculate turnout, manners and correct traditional, historical turnout......but this is not the be all and end all of driving. Driving has moved on, far more than riding, many more ideas and techniques have been embraced and encorporated into the many facets of the sport. A BDT driver probably wont have a clue about what I posted earlier, and why should they? it does not concern them.

[Mossy]

That's a fair point and gives a dimension to your argument. I think, if you apply it to just such occasions it wouldn't go wrong, but in general and with 'regular' horse people it is better to keep tradition. If a given person is 'just having a go' at horse riding then all is well with the world.
If all walks of life kept with tradition men in evening dress would still be dispensing mist. nux. and all patients would have an enema daily. In my work world POP posterior occipital presentation, of a baby, or Plaster of Paris, of a broken leg, to name but two meanings of POP, or to the man in the street, POP is a non PC, there I go again:D :D :D , carbonated drink! Lets speak English. left rein =anti clockwise, right rein = clockwise.
If a given person is having a go at riding how does do they feel if the language about them is incomprehensible? How much incentive do they have to keep having a go.
GGGGGGRRRRRR!!!!!

[Frances]

I nearly had a CVA during a RTA listening to horsey jargon but luckily I had two GS's PR and felt fine! I declined them tdm.

This is medical jargon and back in the dim and distant, in a big London hospital during handover/report our ward sister would make us speak in plain English. If you said "I gave a Mr Blogs two GS's", she would say "you did what, Student Nurse Agate?, and you would repeat it and she would say again "you did what, Student Nurse Agate?" and you would finally get the point and say "I gave Mr Blogs two glycerine suppositarie, Sister" and should would smile and say "thank you, Student Nurse Agate" and you quickly got the point! She would not tolerate this from consultants either and would say very pointedly "aah, Staff Nurse, Mr Smith has just asked for two glycerine suppositaries to be given to Mr Blogs". The Consultant also soon learnt. She was a fantastic ward sister.

So, speak in plain English - it is safer and everyone understands immediately. It is also polite and courteous to include people rather than exclude them by superiority.

[Tim]

We will have to agree to disagree, I don't think that changing the vocabulary will change the image or include any more people than are currently being drawn in. I will leave this conversation with full respect for your views and hope that is reciprocated.

[sidesaddlelady1]

So my good man, jump on the "tiger" seat, after checking the "5th wheel" Make sure the horse you have "put to" works in "all gears". Are all the "mountings" clean?

Make sure you have put the "lazy wheeler" in his corret position, But you'll know where that is naturally? As will you know where to put the "swing pair" And watch those "floating leaders"

You are not an acomplished driver, as I see you use "pinned ribbons" And a "Frog" and you are constantly "ringing the bells"

Have you checked the "futchels" after changing to the "splinter bar"? Have you put the "whipple tree" away? Now to make things easier we will have the team "short harnessed" toady.

Don't forget to "stamp the footboard" when you use the "Short Tommy" it will save you time later on.

Would you like a driving lesson??? :D :D :D Plenty of folk know of what I speaK!

As I don't drive, many of these expressions are unknown to me but I don't feel that you are being elitist in using them. After all, I have a tongue in my head and am quite capable of asking for a translation. If you were teaching me to drive I would expect you to say the equivalent of "This is what we are going to do now and the correct term for it is...." and I wouldn't feel that you were patronising me or excluding me. I would love to learn to drive the WH but the only local teacher is swamped with pupils.

Too much dumbing down going on in everyday life without us doing it.

[sidesaddlelady1]

Well, I think I'll continue to set fair, tack up, strap my horse, quarter him and use stirrups, bridles, saddles,send for the Farrier when his feet need trimming and I'll refrain from calling the vet "the animal doctor" (possibly that should be "the (wo)man who makes my horse better when he's poorly" rather than an elitist term like "doctor").

:) Sorry, Wally, only teasing!