The young horse's diet

[horsecrazychick]

What kind of supplements should a growing 3 yr old TB get? Right now she is just getting 3 flakes of Bermuta in A.M. and 3 of alfalfa in P.M. She doesn't need any more energy or weight, but we're going to start dressage this year, start her over fences next year, and then eventually start eventing when she's ready. I just want to make sure she gets what she needs to stay healthy and sound and prevent future issues, especially with an eventing career ahead of her.

[Jessey]

Alfalfa is good as it is high in Calcium which growning bones need. My filly is a similar age, I would just add a general purpose vitamin and mineral supplement just to make sure she is getting all the trace elements she needs.

J x

[horsecrazychick]

What's a good brand of supplement?

Also, she's been chewing on wood a lot and cribbing a little. Is there a supplement that will encourage her to stop?

[Jessey]

Wood chewing often suggest they are lacking in a vitamin or mineral, can't remember which ones cause it now, Valley Vet have a good range, I can't say which is best as we mostly have different brands here but have a look through theirs, just below the price etc you can check 'Manufacturers/label information' this shows you the specific contents and you can compare them to see which has the best and widest range of nutriants.
You will find there are lots of more specific ones that only have 1 or 2 main ingreadients but I would be looking for a much more general supplement in your case. The only thing I can think that I like that you can get there is Farriers Formula, it is meant to help get strong/good feet but it also has lots of good quality trace elements and is very well balanced, its not the cheapest though.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_product_group.html?cguid=30e08109-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5

J x

[1 morejump]

Don't worry I am going through the exact same thing, I have a 3 year old and we are starting dressage too. Luckly, my mom's friend is a feed supplyer and a great horse person. Jessy is right, wood chewing is a sign that they need more minerals and vitamins, she also might just be bored. Try to get her off of the 3 flakes of alfalfa, it is a very rich feed for a 3 year old. While it is a good source of Calcium and protein too much is bad. A growing horse needs Calcium but you can't give them too much. The Calcium has to be in a balanced ratio with Phosphorus. The phosphorus is what helps them absorb the Calcium. If they aren't getting the two minerals in a balanced form then the body will start to pull Phosphorus from the bones to absorb the Calcium, which isn't good.
Go to google and look around for info. Try here, http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex4634
http://www.ranvet.com.au/feeding_stabled_horses.htm
http://www.horses-arizona.com/pages/articles/feeding.html
Here is a really good feed link http://www.admani.com/AllianceEquine/ (lots of info)

[horsecrazychick]

Well she was on 6 flakes of alfalfa, but we've cut it down to half bermuta and half alfalfa. The former owner said she does fine on half and half, but there's no way she could go on just bermuta because she would drop weight fast, especially if she was also being worked several days a week.

Also, I know where to find millions of supplements, but of course every brand says theirs is the best and absolutely essential for every horse. How do I know which ones are really good?

As far as the wood chewing goes, ALL of our horses do it. Especially when the wood is wet after rain. Could it be that it just tastes good? Most of our horses are turned out 24/7 together. They don't really have grass, but they have weeds to nibble on and a couple toys too. They can't be THAT bored. They all get bermuta and salt blocks. The oldest also gets a joint supplement and they all get... well I forget the name, but its the supplement that prevents them from colicking if they eat off the ground and eat some sand.(since our horses always dump the hay on the ground, THEN eat it...)

[horsecrazychick]

My friend suggested John Lyons performace feed. What do you think of it? Here's a list of its ingredients http://www.nutrenaworld.com/Screens/ProductDetails_Equine.aspx?ProductID=94

[horsecrazychick]

Oh one more quick question:
Is it good to add some vegetable oil to the horse's grain?

[Jessey]

If you have a horse that struggles with holding weight oil is a good source of slow release energy, but you have to make sure your vitamin supplementation is up to scratch (I think its vitamin E that you have to supplement when using alot of oil) esp in young horses.

I know what you mean about there being so many choices, My theory is first to ask what others use and have a look at what it contains, I then consider price, the cheap ones ofen have lower quality ingrediants and the expensive ones are just that so I normally choose the mid price range then compare the ingridients and see which has the most comprehensive range,
This is fairly good -
Crude Protein, Lysine, Methionine, Crude Fat, Crude Fiber, Calcium, Phosphorous, Salt, Potassium, Magnesium, Iodine, Zinc, Iron, Cobalt, Copper, Manganese, Selenium, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin B12, Riboflavin, d-Pantothenic Acid, Thiamine, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Choline.
Compared to this (which I hasten to add is probably good if you only need certain elements but this would not do for an allround supplement) -
Crude Fiber, Salt (NaCl), Potassium (K), Iodine (I), min

These are the first two on the Valley Vet page I posted earlier. I must add I am no Nutritionist just a horse owner who has over 20 years experiance and a rather odd interest in nutrition :rolleyes: :D Most large feed producers have a qualified nutirtionist available to help you, might be worth a call.

Wood chewing is also an indicator of not enough fibre in the feed, horses are grazers so need to trickle feed 18 hours a day. Their gut works opposite to ours, with us when we eat our gut produces acid to aid digestion, with horses their gut produces acid constantly so they have to eat almost constantly to stop the acid from digesting the gut wall.
I like alfa, I think it has many benifits but I would be tempted to reduce the alfa being fed and increase the ammount of bermuda so that they get more bulk, this will increase grazing time to help ensure they can eat all the time and given she will be eating alot more of it she should get the calories to hold her weight but if not you can still add a little alfa once a day or so just to top up the calories. Could you buy large round bales of hay and just leave them in the pasture so they always have access to forage?

J x

[horsecrazychick]

Err, roundbales... I've HEARD of them, but I don't know where on earth you get them. I don't know if that would work well... One of our horses is a pig, might never stop eating when she's full(and she's already PLENTY fat!hehe) and she's in a seperate pipe corral all day while the others all out, then one goes in the barn at night, and the TB eats alfalfa but one horse can't get ANY or she'll colic. And then they all get special extra stuff too.(The TB is also getting about one pound of rice bran now as well, and we've been giving her 2 flakes of alfalfa because she's stopped eating all 3)

[Jessey]

Sure, you know the giant round bales that they often keep for cattle??? it not generally such high quality as the small (horse) stuff so should allow them something to chomp on with limited calories, or you can feed oat straw, thats the equivilant of us eating celery all day :D

Sounds like you have quite a mix of needs, I assume they all get fed seperatly? could you offer something basic like Oat straw in pasture then just give the top up rations at the normal feed times when they are seperate, and for your fatty ;) you may not need to give much of anything else.
I have a youngster, an 8 year old arab x and a 30 something cob, they also have all very different diet needs, it can be a royal pain sometimes can't it ;) :D

[horsecrazychick]

Ugg last night I went to check on her and saw that she was cribbing between every couple bites of hay. She didn't look stressed out and she couldn't have been THAT bored because she was eating, maybe it's a habit she's had all her life? After all, she was at a racing barn, then a hunter/jumper barn for a month. Neither of those are very good quiet evironments for a horse to live in my opinion. So I'm guessing it's either habit or her diet- not her evironment.

I'm thinking about putting her on John Lyons Performance feed. It sounds pretty good to ME....

Features
Provides 12% protein to reduce nitrogen intake, which helps lower the risk of dehydration and reduces ammonia levels in stalls
Includes guaranteed levels of key amino acids to support performance with a lower level of crude protein
Added anise flavoring for improved palatability
Offers added fat (from vegetable oil) and digestable fiber to enhance performance and endurance
Contains selenium and Vitamin E for antioxidant benefits, including support for immune system response and reduced risk of muscle soreness
Added biotin and methionine to support hoof and hair quality
Has added yeast culture to help improve fiber digestion

Guaranteed Analysis (min. amounts except where noted)
Crude Protein 12.0%
Lysine 0.65%
Methionine 0.3%
Crude Fat 5.5%
Crude Fiber max. 10.0%
Calcium min. 0.7%-max. 1.1%
Phosphorus 0.6%
Copper 30 ppm
Zinc 120 ppm
Selenium 0.5 ppm
Vitamin A 4,000 IU/lb
Vitamin D3 350 IU/lb
Vitamin E 75 IU/lb
Biotin 0.45 mg/lb

[Tuff_up]

i am new at this but i went to a seminar on nutrition a week ago and they told me if your horse starts cribbing and chewing on wood for no real reason it means they are lacking a vitamin/mineral. i know on some horse magazines they give you different supplements on the ads for chewing wood i just pulled out a magazine out of my drawer and it has a supplement on the first page called Quitt and it says guaranteed work in 7 days its highly palatable and is a natural feed supplement. it gives a website www.farnamhorses.com and a phone number for outside the u.s.a 602-285-1660.

i am going to try on the bit supplement called endurance premix which is a custom supplement for horses living in alberta. i would recommend going to some nutrition classes so you can get to learn about your forage in your area and get a custom like supplment for horses in your area. the custom supplement thing is kind of expensive but after learning that most signs of lacking minerals and vitamins are invisible i got kind of scared because they said the only time you know they are lacking that certain type of mineral is when they are dead or really sick.

[horsecrazychick]

if your horse starts cribbing and chewing on wood for no real reason it means they are lacking a vitamin/mineral.
but I don't know if she just started or has done it all her life....

[horsecrazychick]

we decided not to get the Lyons performance feed because it has almost the exact same stuff in it as the rice bran does that we're feeding her.

[Jessey]

It might be worth you trying her on a probiotic, these help get the balances in the gut sorted so help to reduce any discomfort, racers and competition horses are known to often (something like 90% of racers have them) have stomach ulsers and this is thought to be caused by the very high levels of grain fed (probably quite likely if your lass doesn't hold weight well) these ulsers then cause stress as they are constantly uncomfortable which can in turn cause vices (cribbing).
So even though you now have her diet fixed she may just need a helping hand to get the acidity in her gut back to normal.
I put our old chap on a probiotic for a whicle as he was scouring constantly and since then (6 months ago) he has been absolutely fine :D it took just a couple of days to see a difference and in about 2 weeks he was right as rain again, I kept him on it for about 40 days just to be sure and will keep some just in case he needs some help again in future.

J x

[horsecrazychick]

Yeah I was just reading about stomach ulsers and how most horses have them, especially ones fed only once or twice a day or a lot of grain. Although Lacy has never raced or competed in anything, she has lived all her life in a racing barn and a hunter/jumper barn, which I think can be stressful evironments for a horse. What do you DO if your horse has an ulser? Are they permanent?

[horsecrazychick]

Oh also the previous owner made it sound like it is very standard for TBs to eat like 6 flakes of alfalfa a day and that most TBs will not keep weight without that much. Is this true?

[Jessey]

Ulser's can be soothed, a probiotic will help regulate the bacteria in the gut so should help soothe it and stop any further damage, also lots of people feed Aloe Vera juice with good results. I am not sure if you can get rid of them once they are there but might be worth speaking to your vet next time you see him.
Of the Tb's I have known some hold weight with little help, others need lots. Do you have lots of grass where you are? I find that is the best cure for most thin horses, good hay and grain are fine, but often don't come close to good grass :o
Perhaps you could contact an OTTB rehab centre, they may be able to give you some top tips about how to condition them the most effective way (and what the best ratios of alfa/bermuda and grain), I know your mare hasn't raced but being raised in a race barn will mean she will have had a lot of the life that makes them so special :D

J x