Mary Wanless and NH

[Skib]

Could anyone familiar with Monty Roberts and Intelligent Horsemanship in this country please explain why there is a particular tie up with the Mary Wanless style of riding?

[Yann]

Can't give you an informed reply but my impression is that it's because of the way that approach to riding pays attention to the biomechanical interaction of the rider and horse. But there's also interest for example in Sally Swift, classical dressage and not least Mark Rashid, so it's far from exclusive, and I'm not aware that there's a specific IH way of riding per se. Perfect Partners does list some basic requirements for the ridden horse but I don't think they're particularly unique to any one way of riding.

[janet hakeney]

I know.

Monty Roberts didn't/doesn't have a rider training system, so when he/his people started horses for people and they started asking for riding lessons on their horses they were a bit stuck. Several of his 'Associates' went to Mary Wanless to learn how to teach people to ride. I guess they chose her as (apart from the fact she is very good at it) her system is fairly exclusively a 'Rider Training' system which had no inherent conflicts with MR's 'Horse Training' system.

[Skib]

I am not sure where to post this. Other posts on Mary Wanless' recent demos were in the cafe area and have been wiped. Whereas Mark Rashid demos are discussed under NH though he claims not to be NH.

Mary Wanless is often linked to Intelligent Horsemanship in the UK, that is Kelly Marks and Monty Roberts. I got into trouble at an IH training day when I expressed doubts about Mary Wanless, and it is another case of people expecting one to accept a total package as right for everyone. So I will start by saying that since then, other IH people have assured me that the Wanless component is not compulsory.

Before I found this board I did find Mary Wanless's book For the Good of the Rider very helpful on the psychology of riding lessons. She was good on balance too. I bought an exercise ball and used it a bit.
I would not have gone to her clinic, had I not been invited along by an AI whom I know.

At Merrist Wood, the first part of Mary's clinic concentrated on both these aspects of her work.
She emphasisesd that if something you've been told to do by a riding teacher doesn't work, it is counter-productive to strive to go on doing the same thing only better. Stop sitting tall, stop pushing your heels down, stop relaxing. Mary Wanless positioned the two riders carefully on their horses. She recommends the upper leg being at an angle of 45 degrees to the ground, and the calf and foot back, to create a straight line between foot, hip and shoulder. This seems to me higher than the classic dressage position.

Good riders, she says, bring in their tummy muscles and bear down the whole time while riding. She explained that this use of muscles to bear down on the horse was different from the abdominal support used to support the deep breathing recommended by Rashid.

Her rising trot is markedly different from what I have been taught, the gradual and minimal forward motion recommended by many teachers including Heather Moffett.
Wanless rises high and vigorous. The rising trot acts as cue for the forward motion. One of the demo riders whose position on her sluggish horse was already excellent, altered the carriage and demeanor of her pony completely, just by making this change.
I have such trouble keeping moving in rising trot in my lessons that I tried it and it worked well for me too. That is my main reason for posting here.

But as an older rider, my misgivings were reinforced by seeing Wanless in action and hearing her speak to a questioner who had permanent weakness in one leg following a previous fall.
Wanless postulates a highly competitive and athletic version of riding, which requires a fit and perfectly balanced body. Her web site is not indexed so I cant discover if she has ever turned her attention to people with physical limitiations which cannot be cured. Riding for the elite.
I dont know if this is the attitude of IH in general? But it is very different from Mark Rashid, or my own teacher and many of the more helpful people on this list. From Pippa Funnell too. All of whom allow for individual physical limitations and focus on communication between the horse and rider.But perhaps Janet is right and it is this separation of horse from rider which is complementary to Roberts.

May be the one formula fits all approach to riding and instant change, does resemble Monty Roberts join up?

If I had taken Wanless seriously, I doubt if I would have started riding at all.
Was anyone else at her clinic?
Or had lessons from one of her teachers?

[cvb]

Skib

The Chris Bartle tour was under the banner of IH as well and they certainly didn't feel they had to accpet the "whole package" then !

I personally prefer the pilates-style explanation of engagement of the core muscles as I feel that the "bearing down" can result in some unwanted effects on rider position, and hence on the horse.

I thought there might be something on the tour the IH discussion group - but nothing immediately obvious. Need to remember my login to check the members forum !

[teabiscuit]

is mary wanless "thinking riding" or "riding with your mind"? can't remember:o

[Skib]

It is Ride with your Mind. Though I havent read that one.
cvb I logged in to IH and didnt find anything. I looked at EE list too. But I am not good at searching websites.

[teabiscuit]

you're right Skib, "thinking riding" is molly sivewright, i remember now