the seven games

[jenren!!]

hi can anyone recommend a good site which tells you all about the parelli seven games and exactly how to do them?

Jenny

[kunama]

http://www.naturalhorse.co.uk/training/7games.htm

;)

[blackhorses]

Anyone know why they are called the 7 games as they are not fun and the only result you get is a really bored and angry horse or one that just switches itself off! - Just wondering.

[janet hakeney]

Anyone know why they are called the 7 games as they are not fun and the only result you get is a really bored and angry horse or one that just switches itself off! - Just wondering.

You are obviously doing it very wrong blackhorses.

My horses and I have great fun playing the seven games.They are all very happy, tuned in and mentally and physically stimulated by it.

[99E]

No, blackhorses.
That's what you get if you do them WRONG.

[mayS]

Not quite what the origial poster asked but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth:

No offense to those who love parelli, but I've seen it work for some horses but it doesn't work for all. It's soured 2 horses I know of, and they do not want to be haltered for groundwork. When I say sour, I mean one is so bad he's turned agressive when forced to do some of the parelli tasks. He'll cow-kick during the Games, and at one point he intentionally tried to mow down his handler. The other horse didn't respond well to the Parelli, so they kept doing it until she "learned". But she got so ticked off she learned to rear during the Games. She has since been trained a more tradition/NH route, and not only has she stopped rearing, she's been bitted and is being ridden.

You can claim the owner was doing it wrong but the person is someone who's bought many DVDs, in the savvy club, been to countless clinics, and is Parelli Certified to teach. The person has success with other horses.

Bottom line is that it's good for some horses & people... but it's not the perfect fit for every horse.


As far as how to do the 7 Games, it's hard to figure out from just a web page. There's a certian feel you'll need to develop to do them right. A video may help some so you can see them in action, but you may be better off going to a seminar, clinic, or lesson.

[Crystal Fire]

I'm not a Parelli student anymore, and I don't love Parelli, but even so I want to join in with this :)
Parelli is not about 7 games, it's NOT about getting a halter on the horse and saying "OK, I'm going to go and "do" Parelli now". The 7 games are a basic starting point for ridden, liberty and more advanced groundwork. Once the horse knows how the 7 games work, which just adds up to being able to yield them in all directions and move them about, then the person needs to move on and start riding and using their imagination.
If a rider uses Parelli training with some common sense, and in the way that it was intended, then their checking out that the 7 games are in place will happen as they lead their horse from the field to be tacked up at the stable. They won't "play" the games in order, but they will check that their horse will move backwards and yield softly as they move the horse through the gate and along a track. No wonder some horses get frustrated and switched off when so many people insist on running through the same routine every day before they do anything interesting. You see them heading for the arena, carrot stick in hand, then starting to whip the ground for their Friendly, Porcupine'ing the horse first backwards, then front and hind end, then on to the Driving... aaargh! What is even more unbelievable is the number of people who will just run through their level 1 groundwork in the arena, in the same order day in day out, then put their horse away. That is not how Pat P intended his programme should be used. It is supposed to be progressive, not a comfort blanket for people to hide behind as an excuse for not doing anything much.
Even if you have a horse that can't be ridden you should not be flogging 7 games to death. Say you have a young horse. Get the 7 games understood, maybe not even all of them but get it leading nicely, then get out in woods and fields using the things you have both learnt with a purpose. Keep it fresh and keep learning with the horse.
An experienced Parelli student will have the horse through the 7 games and beyond in 1/2 days. You should aim to get through level 1 as quickly as possible and then leave it behind, using it as a basis for your level 2 (if you want to do that) or your daily handling and riding your horse.
No wonder these poor horses get switched off, they allow their people to learn these new tasks (the horses know them anyway) and then they are expected to keep running through them like some sort of bizarre party trick. Often instead of going out on nice hacks like they used to. The problem is not the system, it's how people use it. I think Parelli should be making this a lot clearer.
MayS, you say this person is Parelli certified to teach, from what you say I doubt it. Are they an endorsed instructor listed on the Parelli website? You mention that one horse has now been bitted and is being ridden. All Parelli horses should be bitted and being ridden, it's part of the programme to introduce the bit during level 2.

[cvb]

I like the iceryder site
http://www.angelfire.com/az/iceryder/pnh.html

re: the "if they don't like it, you're doing it wrong" thought..

on one hand I agree. But I have also seen someone who was supposed to be an instructor (one star at that stage I think) behave in a way that did not seem to be particularly savvy... we are all still human.

Doing PNH "100 %" would take a perfect person and even PP isn't that ! (I know some people may see this as heresy ;), but he IS just human !)

I've also seen a horse that was supposedly doing/done L2 with its only that had clear braces in Circle Game. Remember the current advice is that you don't have to do the tasks perfectly to pass L1.. (just at a L1 standard).

[KateWooten]

Holy Moly Crystal Fire, I wish I'd have written that !!! Perfect, right, exactly.

Here's something that I've been mulling over for a long while, and I never quite get it written down right. I have no problem at all with the Parelli stuff, the seven games etc, once I figured out what they actually were, through all the equipment description and savvy-branding ... but the story of the lady who has all the stuff, has been on all the courses, yet still has no real horse-sense, and no 'Ooomph' to go out and ride her horses ... not even any YaHHHHooooo joy in her work .. that lady is such a familiar character, that I can't help but feel that the Parelli marketing machine quite deliberately identifies her and markets towards her - ie markets to the people will will not really succeed with the program but will persist in ploughing money into it regardless.

Case in point, my Parelli buddy - call her T. T has spent upwards of $20,000 with Parelli and loves it. Since returning from her 4 weeks in Ocala, she has not ridden one of her 3 horses. The one she took there is no longer rideable, because he has these 'braces' although he was a ranch horse when she bought him 3 years ago. Now he has bucking fits and throws her off every time. Her older husband-safe horse can only be ridden at a walk because he bolts, and her 5 yr old, D, is going to be sent for 'traditional training, you know so that she learns how to do things, not just the all the cool groundwork'.

Here's some quotes from T. On returning from Florida, I wanted her to show all the cool new stuff she was telling me about ... but she couldn't because she doesn't have all the cool bridges and things to use like in Florida. Well, just bring him over to my house, and we'll use the woods, ravines, creeks etc .... 'No, you don't understand, you have to be in the arena for it to work'.
How about this - I need to practice the 7 games on my own before we do trailer loading with T's trailer ... 'but Kate, you won't be able to without me, you don't have a carrot stick and a 14 ft lead' (I have a dressage whip and a length of rope). Or how about this, on the subject of her no longer rideable 7 yr old ..'I'm going to sell him, he's worth $10,000 now, which is $5,000 more than I paid for him.' ... but he's no longer rideable ...'yes, but he's a level 3 horse now' (!!!) Or how about this 'When D is back from the trainer's I'm going back to FL to do the 6 weeks with her too because she's only level one right now' ... ( couldn't you do it for yourself after spending $20,000 ??? )

Well, of course Parelli can't be blamed for T's inflexibillty in her thinking. T is just that type - she wants to have everything perfect and can't adapt to imperfect conditions or equipment. BUT Parelli just encourages this thinking. She fit right in there down in FL - she was in heaven. As far as she could see, she was about the most flexible thinker down there. What annoys me about it, is there is a very clear and obvious reason why she and her horses don't progress very much. It has to do with fear, and some particular incidents in her history. That is obvious to anyone who knows her. Surely, in $20,000 somewhere in the parelli training, someone would have noticed that she and the horse have been bullied. No. In fact what happened was that she was held up as a great example on the FL course, and encouraged to go on and join the certification program.

My (long and rambling) point is this, nothing in the outcome of T's experience with Parelli is seen as failure - she is 100% successful in their eyes. That, is scary to me.

[cvb]

I need to practice the 7 games on my own before we do trailer loading with T's trailer ... 'but Kate, you won't be able to without me, you don't have a carrot stick and a 14 ft lead' (I have a dressage whip and a length of rope).

Huh ?? I was watching the "natural solutions for spooky horses" DVD the other day and it starts with Pat riding round the arena on one horse, with Casper loose. He has in his hand a stick - which is NOT orange.

So tell me - can it only be a carrot stick if it is orange ? :cool:

And by the way isn't it a twelve (12) ft lead. You know because Pat always makes the joke that you start with 12ft, double it ... to 22ft... double that to 45ft :p

So if she's using 14ft.. she's off script herself !

[KateWooten]

ah, no definitely my mistake, T would know the exact length of everything - I'm sure I never measured anything I just cut the rope to the length that felt right.

About the carrot stick - that's exactly what I mean - I know PP never got to know horses as well as he does by being inflexible and equipment focussed ... so why does he emphasise and encourage it in his students. It's bizarre.

[cvb]

Kate

she needs to realise that the arena work is all simulations for the real thing ! I don't have bridges etc to play with in my arena - I just have some flatwood we can practice walking on or over. But I DO have a wooden bridge over a stream that when certain fields are empty of crops or animals we can go and "play" with. So we can play over the bridge, and then over the stream itself as well. Tho so far I tend to have to get into the stream first :rolleyes:

But I guess you can't teach some people....

[Crystal Fire]

Carrot Stick is the Parelli trademarked name for a simple training stick, so yes, they are orange. I have owned a Cucumber Stick and a Tomato Stick in my time, and now have a flash pink one which I call simply my Lipstick :D I also have a variety of coloured 6ft strings to hang on the end, one nice black one that I kid myself makes me some sort of black belt in NH... not...!
I've come back to see if I upset anyone with my rant, but pleased I haven't!
I too have a friend who went to the Parelli ranch in Colorado for 12 weeks. She's always on about working to a purpose, and spent a lot of time outside of the arena there for sure. She drives me mad with her "Pareli-isms", but we're good mates anyway. She's out riding her horse every day, and enjoying the more advanced levels of groundwork and liberty that can be experienced in level 2-3 - often out in fields and woodland.
A level 3 horse is a ridden horse by the way Kate, each level has a ridden element, so if her horse can't be ridden I'm not sure how she's managed her flying lead changes etc...?
I've not got a lot more to say on this, because I'm not a student in the Parelli programme any more. When I started the only natural horsemanship trainers we knew about in the UK were really Monty and Parelli. I went for Parelli with great enthusiasm because it seemed to offer what I wanted with my horse. As time went on I saw too much that I wasn't comfortable with, and eventually some home-made videos of Level 3 and instructor camps, which made me decide to quit the programme. Away from the demos it wasn't what I aspired to. However, I can see what Pat is trying to relate to students in his programme, it's about having strong basics to build on, steady and spook-proof horses, and keeping people safe. Somewhere along the line many students seem to completely miss the point, and yes, if they are afraid to progress then they can stick with the early stuff as a security blanket, but it isn't great for their horses. Parelli is supposed to be a means to an end, which is having an excellent ridden work horse.
Oh, one more thing I suppose. Many of us go to PNH demos and get inspired by seeing the instructors working horses at liberty, getting on board and riding without tack etc. It's great, but they have built that on top of working through the levels, including riding with and without bits. I have been lucky enough to experience the magic of being able to take my horse from the field, work him in an arena and paddock, ride him at walk, trot and canter and then return him to his field... all without the benefit of as much as a bit of string. It's great, but it took me two years. The people playing their 7 games day after day in an arena will never get there.

[KateWooten]

A level 3 horse is a ridden horse by the way Kate, each level has a ridden element, so if her horse can't be ridden I'm not sure how she's managed her flying lead changes etc...?

I'm Hopeless. The more into a rant I am the more inaccurate I become ! She can't ride the horse outside the arena. She rides him inside the arena (at least in theory - she hasn't since she got back) precisely because it's a controlled environment. She actually rode him outsid ethe arena at the Ocala Center, but I got quite a strong impression that the whole place was kind of controlled and safe-feeling for her.

I would really like to hear more about how you felt uncomfortable with what you saw of the level 3 videos and instructor camp. I can see that could develop into quite a war though - pm me if it does ?

Also, I think chaps look ridiculous over jodhoppers ! <-- that bit was an attempt at lightheartedness :)

[cvb]

Also, I think chaps look ridiculous over jodhoppers ! <-- that bit was an attempt at lightheartedness :)

Nah - its not whether they are wearing jeans or jods under chaps, its who's doing the wearing :cool: (and in this case I don't mean personality :eek: )

[Crystal Fire]

Oh yes... the chap gap... :D
I'll pm you when I've got more time Kate. I haven't got anything horrible to say, but we'd end up way off topic!

[Jumping Genius]

they are pretty fun if you do them correctly and here is a site:

http://www.visi.com/~jbly/equine/methods/seven_games/

[Greentchr]

I learned a lot from the 7 games. As did my horse. I now have a horse that will go out the gate when I point so I don't get caught in her way, moves over at the trailer when I touch her lightly, side steps and pivots from the ground in preparation for leg cues, doesn't spook at much of anything, lunges without halter or stick in the round pen at all gaits and stops and waits when I ask, backs out of my way with a lift of my finger... in short, is respectful and does what I ask her to do on the ground. I havn't 'done the games' per se since we learned them, but I have used what we learned everytime I get her off the hill, groom her, load her in the trailer or head off to ride.

I was a totally green rider when I started the Parelli class (by a non-authorized teacher- she now advertises 'NH' lessons, not Parelli lessons), and I learned how to communicate effectively with my green horse and be safe with her (well, sort of safe:o there was that unfortunate accident last year). The lessons were valuable, but the point that I remember the most was to use the games creatively, don't turn them into dogma. I got the DVD set to use with my children, and I have to say they were interesting, but difficult to really understand without the benefit of a live person interpreting and helping. I use a carrot stick because someone gave it as a present, but I made my own out of an old rod and rope, and it works just as well.

The 7 games are just a begining, not an end-product. Once they are learned, they need to be used for useful things, not as a daily task. I also like parts of what a lot of other NH clinicians teach. Mostly they teach the same things in different ways, so if you really can't understand the why or how of some particular teacher, you can go to another and perhaps better understand the way they explain it better. I think to be sucessful at NH you have to be sensitive to the horse you work with. If it is not working, try it differently. If you do not like it, do something different. I say if you want to try it, go ahead and see if you and your horse understand it and like it- just don't ever fall into the trap of being close-minded.