Advice before we start!

[DaughterandDad]

Hello everyone

I’ve read a number of your postings before submitting this, to see if you are a friendly bunch!!
And the advice given on similar topics e.g.
Is buying a horse the answer? By horsemadgirl 23rd Feb 2006

We are a family new to the horse world.

I am a dad with an 8-year-old daughter who has been having lessons for approx. a year, one to one and group sessions.

Her mum and I are interested in caring for a horse/pony. With the possibility of mum learning to ride and maybe dad. We do not rush into anything and would like advice on the best ways of learning the essentials of looking after a horse.

For the past 6 months I’ve read books from the library, horse mags, spoken to people at the riding school and researched through the internet.

We have made enquiries at a farm 500 metres from home and are waiting to find out if a place is available. Neighbours have horses at the farm and are open to giving advice and guidance. It is DIY livery only 5 horses, no riding school, and two fields for turning out/grazing.

Having read the threads on selling your first pony because you’ve out grown it makes me think it may be better to go for a larger pony that we can all care for and a confident daughter (falls off bounces - gets back on an 11hh school pony) can ride perhaps being lead initially.

I was considering a Welsh (section D) or a New Forest approx. 13/14HH.

My Concerns
Feeding seems complicated.
Hard feed, grazing at night to avoid high sugar content in the afternoon, hay, chaff, sugar beet, cod liver oil, salt licks, linseed, molasses, oats, barley, bran and maize.

Horse Size
What size should I look for and what realistic price for a horse that is fully broken?

Horse Health
Colic, laminitis, worms, strangles, sweet itch how can I increase my knowledge so the horse/pony does not suffer through ignorance?

Training the Horse
What problems will our lack of practical knowledge cause, bad behaviour, ride-ability etc. and what can we do to overcome this?

Helping out at a Riding school to increase my knowledge is not really an option.
Leasing a horse does not appeal to us, as the distance to the owner’s stable, morning and evenings would become a chore.
Who runs/delivers the British Horse Society - Horse Ownership Certificate, is it Riding Schools?


Any advice will be welcomed.

[LinzCos]

In my opinion the best way to learn is to help someone out. Perhaps someone at the farm would be happy to have a helper in horse care? I have a couple of ponies and would be pleased for an adult helper - I am innundated by unreliable teenagers!

My 8 year old rides a 13.2 pony easily and I can ride him too (at 5ft5) - he is easier to handle than my smaller pony!

Don't worry about feeding - it really isn't difficult especially if you have a little native pony. The concern is keeping weight off them.

Overall though make sure that you and your wife are really committed - as with any child and their pet it is usually Mum or Dad who does most of the work!

[Wally]

Woah, hold up, steady one there!

Read the books take note, but don'tt swallow them whole without chewing! ;) ;) :D

80% of what you read about in book might never come to hassle the average horse owner. Really it won't. We have over 30 horses and have done for years and (touching wood) we have only had one case of colic which was unexpected in 20 years.

All you need to remember with horses is more damage is done through over feeding than under feeding. If in doubt feed plenty of hay in winter with an ordinary non heating mix. Lots of fibre, not much starch and sugar. Horses can survive in far more habitats than most large mamals, reindeer and yack excepted! :D They don't need half what is advertised.

If you want a good all round family pony 13.2hh M&M type, cobby pony with good thick legs. My Old Haflinger was as described, I never grew out of him, I'm 5 feet 7 and then a good 12.5 stone (bit more now)

With the research you have been doing and your commitment I doubt a horse will suffer through ignorance in your hands by the sound of it. It is all common sense, sadly it is one of the things you have to learn hands on and takes experience. All the diseases you have listed have definite early symptoms, which are not hard to spot.

The MOST important thing with any horse is be consistent, if you ask for a stand still, don't move off until you get the horse still, be it for 3 seconds.
Insist on the same manners every day, if the horse knows where the boundary is he'll be happy.

Mike Peace, MOnty Roberts, Kelly marks and anything on clicker training will give you valuable insights on how a horse's mind works and how you can get what you want from the horse with mutual respect and understanding.

Ohh how exciting, a spot of shopping! Good luck with it.

Welsh Ds can be firely, be careful, they can also be complete puddings like our one. Look carefully.

[cvb]

daughteranddad

its good to ask :)

you may find it hard to find a pony that will suit everyone. Our first "family" pony was around 14hh - I was 8 when we got him and he was way too big for me to ride. I did end up riding him years later.

We had a 12.2 on loan - that I shared with next sister up. Then we shared a 13.2 when I was 10 - and really I struggled with that height then. Not so much the riding but the grooming, tacking up etc. I could reach the sides but not the top ;) We now have a 12.2 that I am too heavy to ride, a 13.2 and a 15.1. My mother rides the smaller two, I ride the bigger two (i.e. we overlap in the middle). If my father rode (he doesn't), the bigger mare (15.1) would really be the only option.

(should say I am only 5ft4 now ;) ).

feeding is only complicated if (a) you make it that way or (b) you have to manage a health issue (like laminitis). And most of the feed manufacturers run an advice line.

Horse size - problematic - what height and weight are you all ?

Training the horse - the difference between a school horse and your own is that ALL the training is down to you. I don't mean the lesson part, I mean all other hours and days that you are working with the horse ;)

It is very useful to have both a local trainer AND local "support" in terms of friend, mentor etc.

Leasing a horse does not have to mean it stays at the owner's stables.

Horseowners is, I believe, mainly through Riding Schools.

[DaughterandDad]

Thanks for the replies and support

The idea of owning and caring for a horse is our idea, my wife and I, not daughters.

Size daughter 4ft - 4 stone

mum 5ft 4 -9 stone

me 5ft 8 - 11.5 stone

The adverts for loan horses I've seen tend to state they want to keep it at its current livery.

[Wally]

Well, you'd all manage on a Welsh C, or NF or a Dartmoor type even.

OR you could buy her a Welsh A, train it to drive, Mum and Dad learn to drive, then when she gets taller, buy her another, Mum and Dad keep the pony to drive with! :D Then you can all go out on family outings and keep the costs low (Welsh A live on fresh air and are wonderfully couragous driving ponies) 3 of you and you'll only need 2 ponies!

[cvb]

So the horse would be for the adults mainly ? That sounds more do-able. Tho you may then find it frustrating not to be able to ride together, and soon one becomes two ;)

You'd certainly get away with big pony or small horse/cob.

I've had two loans before (in a gap between owning) and both came to me - but both were "word of mouth" as well, not advertised....

as well as local riding school - check out what the local riding club is. They often have newsletters and classifieds there will include horses for loan etc. Plus they are always glad of helping hands for shows and so on so it can be a great way to get to know people, how things work and so on :)

[nicolaj]

Hi there!

You mention that you have neighbours at the farm where you would like to keep your new equine friend, maybe ask them if you could help them out with chorse etc so you can learn some stuff hands on.

To be honest you can read all the books out there but nothing beats the day to day caring of a horse, because all of a sudden you realise that you don't remember page so and so in the book!:rolleyes: I know, I've been there, but then have always been able to draw upon somebody much more experienced, which it seems you will be able to.

Horse care/keeping is as complicated as you make it, my horse lives out 24/7 is fed once a day on Dengie Hi-Fi lite and Allen & Page Slim and Healthy as he could put weight on if fed too much.

Most horses will go quite happily and healthly without having to require a vet apart from vaccinatins and dentistry, so don't fret too much about horsie ailments but it always worth having some knowledge to be able to spot little symptoms. More importantly however, is knowing your horse really well and being able to spot changes in him and knowing when to call a vet.

If you are interested in doing a course to expand your horse knowledge I would suggest the following:

http://www.horse-care.co.uk/

or equi-study from Warwickshire College

http://www.warkscol.ac.uk/equistudy/equistudy/home.asp

As you already have some horsey friends, maybe they could keep their ears open for something that would be suitable for you all. Also have a look at some of the horse sale websites such as:

http://www.horsemart.co.uk/
http://www.horsedeals.co.uk/

Gives an idea of prices and what is out there. also have a look at your local press under the classifieds for horses for sale and see what is there.

Good luck and let us know how you all get on!;)

[Gill]

Hello, it sounds as though you have been reading lots and have an overload of information already.
The practical aspects of owning a horse never seem to work out quite like the books. If you have found a friendly place to keep your proposed horse then the folk there will give you support and many aspects of care will have to fit in with what is in place there already.
Finding the right animal may take time, but it will be worth waiting until you are sure. Good luck with the search.

[Yann]

Loads of good advice, I was in a very similar position to you 4 years ago and bought a 15hh welsh cross cob for the whole family to ride and it worked out brilliantly. I'd shared a horse before that and studied and worked at a riding school - getting some direct hands on experience is invaluable, there's a whole world beyond the riding lesson but it's not as daunting as it seems if you take your time and gain a bit of experience first.

[NoviceNic]

I agree with the others about overloading on reading. I used to ride as a teenager but then returned at 30. I started by lessons at local yard and talking to everyone there to gain experience and support. First I bought a little native for my daughter to ride. I suppose I was testing the water to see if I could cope when my dream of owning a horse came true. After 2 yrs I decided to take the plunge. I bought my first horse. Unfortunately I got some bad advise and bought a v green arab x tb. Apparently the worst first horse I could of ever bought...:o So it was 9 months of sheer hell and nothing could of prepared me for it. However my riding school gave me lots of support and I decided to put her on full livery. I got loads of support and brilliant advise. Sometimes I was overlaoded with advise and I had to take a step back and decided that I wasnt the right human for my first girl so I sold her. I then swore I would never buy again but came across a lovely cob. I have owned Captain for 19 months and most of my experiences have been positive. If I have any problems I ask for advise from my friends, NR and of course my vet. So anyway the moral to this story is get a native. Prepare for the worst case scenario and always have emergency back up and have plenty of invaluable support from your YO, friends and vet. Good Luck with your hunt and I wish you all the luck in the world to completing your dream..:)

[Vicki&Milo]

I'd say take on board what everyone's said here, sounds like some great advice, but don't be too scared. If you get on well with the people at the yard and they are willing (although may be hard to find out without making them feel obligued) to answer any question you have then you'll learn it all very fast.
I've never bought a horse (had one on loan, but didn't really count cos I kept it at my RS and it was a bit of an everyone chip in affair), but I've been there got the t-shirt and read the book as far as stable management goes, but the thought of having my own horse still terrifies me-I'm not trying to scare you, just make you realise, YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
There are so many people on here that say 'so and so bought a horse and she/he's doing this or that wrong but they never ask for any help'-I think from that you can see that most horse lovers would be all to keen to lend a hand to someone who genuinely wants to do the best for their horse.
As everyone else has said, natives are pretty hardly (the ones at the RS I used to work out were out all night (all through the winter, never saw a rug), only ate hey and were poked and prodded by more small children than you could imagine, I don't know a horse there that wasn't still being ridden well into its 20's!!!!
With regards to its feeding, I'm assuming you'll not be buying a foal :D so ask her/his old owners, if he seems in good condition and happy, why change-if it ain't broke and all that....but again, if there are any problems, ask!! sometimes even if you know the answer if can help having someone else to point it out.
Good luck with it-I am so jealous, only wish my dad had your mind-set :rolleyes:
Vicki xx

[Kazzie]

I took the BHS Horse Owners' Certificate at the riding centre where William is stabled on assisted livery. Its a really worthwhile course and I've found it has increased my confidence no end. I believe that you can take the course itself in any riding establishment but that the instructors have to be BHS qualified - the exam papers are also submitted to the BHS for validation.

My partner and I both bought our horses within the last six months, so we're new to horse ownership ourselves. I'd say you need to be prepared for a massive change of lifestyle. Its a bit like a first child - all the preparatory classes in the world doesn't really give you much more than an idea of the reality... at least that's how I found it! You'll get tremendous pleasure and some really down times... I wouldn't change a moment though.

Good luck

[H & Bailey]

Hi,lots of good advice given,if you are novice owners make sure you have helpful friends at the farm you are thinking of going too.If you get a native/chunky cobby type feeding isnt too complicated.Plenty of hay or haylage as wally has said.I have a 14.1hh cob and 2 shetlands.I feed haylage,ponynuts, redigrass(which you can swap for mollychop,alpha a ,hi fi,happyhoof-these are all chaff type feeds which are basically chopped grasses dried/hay,straw mixes)and when colder i give a scoop of speedi beet for added warmth.then add fuit and veggies.
i would suggest you look for something over the 10 year old mark that has seen it done it
size wise i would say something about 13.2 cobby type,welshies can be quite quick and can be quite cheeky and take the mick if you are inexperienced.
with health things if you are going into a yard with other experienced people if you are worried about something get their opinion then if still worried a phone call to the vet is next.the merc online vetinary manual is a good point of reference for syptoms.
with regards to training and riding you could get a freelance instructor to keep giving lessons and if the pony gets a bit naughty will usually ride to 'square it up'
where abouts are you in the north east and i may know of instructors etc.?

[notpoodle]

i know what you mean! 200 books and magazines later, the mind boggles :D

i got my pony after a break from riding (i had started again about two years before I got her), and although I used to loan and share horses in the past, I felt everything I knew was outdated etc. Seems that the only way to learn is to go out and do it ie. help someone else with their horse and hang around stables :D

i have a native pony (an exmoor!) myself and found that half the stuff in all them books and magazines have never come in handy, ie. my pony's feed regime isnt overly complicated and generally, if she is out and has grass to eat she is happy (i do keep an eye out for things that could cause laminitis though and pony has sweet itch so requires a flyrug throughout the summer).

Maybe a yard with experienced staff would be better for starters, before emersing yourself into the world of DIY livery. When i first got my beastie, although I was DIY, i kept her at a riding school so there was always people at hand to ask for advice. by now we're at a small DIY place, but i'm still grateful for all the help and advice i got at our first yard :)

Julia
x

[becs]

I'd definately second Kazzie - brace yourself for a lifestyle change, though worth it

and also PotNoodle - we learnt so much over the years from friendly, experienced others on a DIY yard. It's tough with all the important decisions when you're on your own.

[DaughterandDad]

Thank you to everyone that has responded.

I believe I am starting to comprehend the passion people involved with the caring of horses, have for their chosen way of life. The comments and advice given on my thoughts/concerns and expressed elsewhere on the forum have moved my mind set on from, considering joining the horse fraternity, to wanting to be part of a friendly, supportive group that can only enhance our lives and daughter’s life for the better.

I will act upon your advice, thanks again, and I will keep you posted to the progress made and seek further advice no doubt!!

[Kazzie]

Good luck with your search... looking forward to hearing more!

[bexj]

DaughterandDad, I think your attitude is commendable, and it is so nice to hear that you are researching all the ins and outs, and aren't afraid to ask questions either. I can't stress the importance of having good, useful support around you - I couldn't have managed my first horse by myself without the support of my yard owner, instructor and friends at the yard. So ask as many questions on here as you want to - hopefully you realise by now that no-one will put you down for what you think may be a daft question!

Look forward to hearing your progress, and, of course, seeing some pictures of your new equine friend when one comes along:D

[Susara]

Just a 'warning'; you will find (if you haven't already :-) that people are often extremely opinionated, and they treat you like you're totally daft (or cruel) to do something that someone exactly as opiniated has *insisted* you should do. Don't take everything to hart that people tell you, even people whose opinions you trust in general, especially if you've noticed that the issue is contentious and there is disagreement between people that all seem to know what they're talking about.

Like I take lessons from this one guy that I really respect, but he doesn't believe in any bit other than a snaffle. I mean *honestly*! My horse *loves* his new eliptical link, why should I go back to snaffle on the principle that a snaffle by definition is always the best? Here's this guy with 40 year's dressage experience and me that can't even sit to the trot - so it takes some guts to ignore his opinion. Can only imagine what he'd think of going bitless... :)

There are different ways of doing things, often with contradictory arguments as to why one way is better than the other (like 'do you lead with the horse next to you or behind you') - sometimes you just have to see what works for yourself and your horse and b*gger the rest.

[Tuff_up]

for horse feed i just feed them grass hay and alfalfa hay and oats and peas the peas i don't recommend but i also have a 4 year old as my first horse so i am already way off course for a beginner. right now horses are hott here in alberta so there really there are not any well broke horses for less then 4000.00 so i bought a started well behaved filly and worked on her and still working i don't really recommend that for a beginner because it comes with heart break and bone breaking reality. i have a 15hh horse and thats the largest and smallest i would get. a horse for a 5 foot 6 person like me would be ideal to be 14.5hh or larger horse just so you don't look all that funny. also i think you do english but if you have a larger bottom then your daughter and her mom or the other way around the same sharing saddle may be less comfortable for one than the other. for minerals and such go to a nutrition class and it will help with your areas feed quality and what minerals that your grazing horse will need that she/he can not get enough from the ground/forage but i do recommend a mineral/salt lick. getting help from a knowledgable horse person also will help with the horse purchasing project.

[1 morejump]

Okie Dokie, it sounds like you have really done your homework, however, don't let all of that get you carried away. I wanted a horse so bad I could taste it. Mom and Dad helped me save the money but they could not buy one, and they were right I appreciated her a lot more because I saved my own money. Get an old peanut butter jar and label it "horse fund" have her save some of her own money too.

While 8 months is a long time to wait, in the horse world it isn't nearly enough. Have your daughter do some volunteer work (not just riding lessons) at the stable. Thats what I did while I was saving for my pony, you learn way more than you will ever read in a book. Mucking, worming, feeding, training, etc. all come in handy, you will all see them at a barn.

Don't get your eye set on any breed at all. I wanted a buckskin 16.2 quarter horse mare. Then I found out that something like that is around $3500. I ended up getting a bombproof, safe, sound little 14.2 quarter horse welch pony cross. It is nice to say that you have a specific breed but it is better to just get something that is safer to learn on. Later you can worry about pedigrees. Just remember, a good horse is never a bad color.

Feeding and the rest of your questions aren't that complicated if you know what you are doing. Which is why everyone here has suggested that you and/or your daughter help out at a barn. You learn so much I can't even express it all.

[cvb]

Tuff_Up, its always worth taking a quick look at the location of a poster - as you may need to "translate". Feedstuffs are not the same in each country. Plus 14.5 - I assume you mean 14 and a half hands ? would be 14.2hh (14 hands and 2 inches). Although often in Europa a horse's height is in cm these days.

Rug sizes are another one. UK measures in inches from middle of chest to hindquarters. Mainland Europe tends to measure wither to hq in cm....

[mogadoga]

There is no point in me saying much, as most things i can think of have been covered! But i must say how nice it is to know someone out there is actually trying, asking and acting upon the answer. Rather than asking , pretending to listen, then doing what they 1st thought to be right! Im sure when you get your own horse it will be in a great home and well cared for! Which is always lovley news! And it seems quite rare at the moment to act how you are! So its a great confidence giver that maybe in the future there will be less cruely treated animals through pure ignorance!

x

[dophi_arno]

Ditto what mogadoga said, it's refreshing to see someone taking the time to research and ask questions before hand. It sounds like you have done a lot of reading which is a great thing, and although overloading on information is very easy to do, I much prefer people to overload on information than go into horse ownership blindly!

I started off with horse riding lessons, and then did volunteer work at a therapeutic riding school where I learned things that weren't covered by riding lessons (tacking, mucking out, preparing feeds, etc). Did a tonne of reading and research. Part shared after that, and then 2 years later got my own horse... which was all a very smooth transition but I know it's difficult to find a way to do things like that these days.

Having knowledgeable people around is great, especially in the beginning if you're uncertain about things. I've found that everyone is keen to offer advice and sometimes it's hard to decide on what advice to take on board, and what not to, especially if you are given contradicting opinions. Overall though I wouldn’t be too worried, feeding is not as difficult as it seems, first aid wise generally know what is 'normal' for your horse, always have the vets number on hand, a first aid kit nearby and know the basic signs and symptoms of some of the common ailments.

If I were in your position I would try out a few instructors and find one I am are happy with and have them help out with training and be available to answer questions etc. I've found over the years that although everything was a bit daunting to begin with, once I got out there and started getting things right my confidence increased heaps. I never stop reading and asking for advice or reassurance (a while ago I posted a thread up on NR asking if I was saddling up right even though I'd been working with horses for nearly 4 years!). All in all, the equine world is a lovely world to be a part of and can be very rewarding if you have the right attitude!

[Kanuma]

Well done to you for researching before you decided to get a horse.
In my experiance IN GENERAL section D's tend to be a bit to much for first horses, it is true that you can get lovely quiet ones but these tend to be the exception rather then the rule.
If i were in your position i would be looking for something between 13.2hh and 14hh, not bigger otherwise you may overhorse your daughter and that tends to dent thier confidence. Im 5ft 4 and weigh in the region of 11 ston and my 14hh connemara carries me with ease. He also is about right for my 6ft brother!
Stick to native/cobby types and go for temprement and willingness over everything else. My first pony would have been a nightmare for some one in your position, but as i have a horsey family we got away with it (a nutcase 12.2hh junior national team ODE pony with serious attitude and a brakes problem, although we have still got him now!!).
Alot of the diseases you mentioned are quite rare and of the ones youve listed the most common is probably colic which has its definate signs and if youve got your horse on a yard almost everyone can recognise it! in my mums 35 odd years of owning horses/ponies weve only ever lost one pony to colic and he was colicing due to poisoning!
When you do get the pony, take your riding instructor with you, and your daughter, see the pony ridden and handled in as many situations as possible, then if you like the pony let your daughter ride it. If she wants the pony then a vet check is always worth the money!
Get yourself set up on a yard with friendly, knowlegeable people and do not be afraid to ask questions. getting a horse is the steepest learning curve ever! When you are given advice take it in, look it over and if you are still unsure ask the best question ever WHY?
Own a pony weekends are good for kids, and most riding schools will jump at a adult offering help in return for being taught horse care (and sometimes kids as well but that is down to insurance)