Hands!

[Rob26]

Hey everyone,

My main problem at the moment seems to be my hands. I'm too heavy with them and they're arn't still enough. I know it's a problem and my RI picks me up on it.

The main problem is that it's ****ing my riding school horse off and so she starts to play up a little, I cant get her to soften and she gets heavy in my hands. Then she starts coming in off the track and just gets nappy. She even threw in a sizeable buck in canter... thank god I seem to have velcro on my backside! I love my school horse and I hate the thought that i'm hurting her mouth and getting on her nerves.

Now I know I am the main problem, she gets a little full of herself if we do lots of trotting and canter which doesn't help by i'm sure the root of the problem is my hands.

So, any tips for getting nice soft, calm hands. That don't start coming up when things don't go according to plan?

[LisaS]

I suggest you get a balancing strap, which is attatched to the d rings on the front of the saddle and sits just above the pommel. When you ride you put your pinky's under the strap so that it keeps your hands still.

Before this was invented we would use baler twine:D Deffinately works, so give it a try.

[Rob26]

we've tried hooking my little fingers through a couple of loops attached to the saddle cloth and it worked a treat. In fact the first time we did it I had her working in a semi outline.

My worry is that I don't really want to rely on the loops to get good hands.. I want to be able to do it unaided if you know what I mean.

[larri]

Are you locking from the shoulders down or just really gripping with your hands??

If it's the whole arm, try thinking about keeping it soft and springy especially through shoulder and elbow joints, not stiffly set in one position

[Rob26]

Are you locking from the shoulders down or just really gripping with your hands??

If it's the whole arm, try thinking about keeping it soft and springy especially through shoulder and elbow joints, not stiffly set in one position

It's hard to tell... I need to focus more on what exactly is going wrong. I do move them about too much, I know that's part of the problem.

[LisaS]

What about putting your loops back. First try and get a nice outline without using the loop, if you find it difficult do something different for a few minutes take up your loops in your little fingers and try again. If she starts working nicely then try and concentrate on what you are doing different, even if it means doing it all over again.

Good luck

[cvb]

Rob

do you have access to a gym ball at all (Woolies did have them quite cheap after xmas ?)

I wonder whether you have your weight just a fraction forward - so small that it doesn't make you look perched, but enough to "pour" too much weight into your hand ?

(normally its the reverse with guys, as perching can cause... er... problems and pain !)

If you had a gym ball to play with out of riding time, you could check your balance, work on your seat etc etc AND hence work on those hands ;)

[DITZ]

Try holding your reins between thumb and first finger only to give you an idea of the kind of 'hold' you should try and have. When communicating with your horse you should just be using the 3rd and 4th fingers gently. If you find you need more strength from your hand than that then you are fighting a losing battle with your horse trying to hold it with your hands in fists.

[HairyCob]

I always find the old analogies (sp?!) useful... imagine you are carrying two full cups of tea and can't spill the hot liquid on your horse, or my personal favourite, imagine you are holding a tiny baby bird in each hand... you can't squeeze them too tight or you'll crush them, and can't wave them around too much or they'll get dizzy!:D

[Skib]

Both Mark Rashid and my teacher teach the gravity thing on arms and hands Rob. I've been told by an AI that I have very still hands out hacking. If this is true I take no credit for it. I never give them a thought.
I let my arms hang from my shoulders. You hold out your fore-arms and hands with the weight underneath. So the elastic stretch of contact reaches from your elbow, through the rein to the horse's mouth.
I find that if I hook my fingers through the saddle strap, that removes the elasticity. But a neck strap might work for you. I find that hard too, but Pippa Funnell uses a necks strap to stabilise her hands. It works better for me (in rising trot say) just to think of keeping the hands still and low rather than using a physical anchor.
You have had all the benefit of learning to ride with your added strength of leg, being a fit young man. It stands to reason that your hands and arms are strong too. So there is a downside. And rather than try to make them "light", the idea of gravity, with the weight underneath might be a comfortable one for you to play with.
It does depend on what your teacher says. Some people teach you to open a hand out to the side to steer a turn. I am tryng to cure myself of this habit. If your hand is out sideways, there is nothing to support it except the horses mouth. So your hand will be heavier. Having your arms hanging by your side and a straight line between your elbow and the horse's mouth, reduces the drag on the bit. Both my teacher and Mark Rashid teach you to draw the rein back to your leg to stabilise it if needed. But never out to the side or floating free.

[Just.Jump]

suggest you get a balancing strap, which is attatched to the d rings on the front of the saddle and sits just above the pommel. When you ride you put your pinky's under the strap so that it keeps your hands still.

:eek:

Sweet baby Jesus, at my barn my coach has told such horror stories, and always, the term is used,

"Never put any fingers into any loops around horses if you'd like to take them home with you at the end of the day."

So naturally, I'm shocked that you would stick fingers under a strap while the rest is attached to a horse that can very easily jerk it's head (and your 4 other fingers) right down and away.

Still, light hands take years to develop completely. It's a matter of learning how to treat and train horses, and as a beginner, it's mainly your job to get to know the riding and staying on in most situations. What I was doing when being trained was to ask with the lightest aids possible, to train myself to what the right pressure feels like. I'm now working on moving my hands but keeping no pressure and still getting a result.

When did you start?

[LisaS]

Just.Jump You do not wrap your fingers around a loop.

I have been riding & teaching for many years and would never do anything to cause an accident.

Thats all I have to say.

[Purple Hugs]

must admit don't think i'd be happy tucking my pinkies under a strap attached to a horse!! :eek:

I try and forget about my arms to be honest, and don't get nagged too much so must be ok. Sometimes they come a bit high in rising trot, I kind of keep my elbows near my waist and relax my lower arm as much as poss.
Thing I find hard is knowing how much contact I have, but again doesnt' seem to be a prob as I've been told a few times I've had good contact as horse is 'frothy' from working the bit... didnt' know that as a good thing! I felt guilty when my RI said that! hehe

[Skib]

Just Jump
I think that is a useful point. I am very safety conscious. But never thought of it that way.
But dont lets have a cross cultural mis-understanding.
And the reason is that, here in the UK that strap on the saddle is a safety device. It gives a beginner something to hold onto (like for kids pony rides). More like a grab handle for emergencies.
Looking back I think I did hold it, now and then, when first trotting without stirrups on the lunge or my first canter on the lunge. BUT I wasnt using the reins for contact at the same time. My teacher was choosing the moment of transition and the horse was lunged in side reins. Like any teaching device, or piece of equipment, it must be used wisely and for the right purpose.

[Horsesaddle]

Can i have some help from some one please ?

I start of with hands in the right poss then with out me knowning they are on the horses neck

why is that?

[Mehitabel]

wobbly anything - hands, head, lower legs, are a sign that the movmeent of the horse is not being absorbed properly. you can concentrate on your hands - hold a strap, hold the mane, anything - but all that will happen is that the movement will find somewhere else to show up. a lot of people nod their heads with the movement of the horse because they are stiff somewhere, others grip with their knees and waggle their lower legs, others are tense in the shoudlers and their hands move.

think of relaxing the shoulders, (actually relaxing, not the allowing movement that was discussed in the cantering thread) and feeling that your hands belong to the horse. don't fix your elbows, they need to open and close slightly as your upper body moves. in an absolutely ideal world, the lower back absorbs all the movement, and the upper body doesn't need to do anything - but we are not in that ideal world, and asy you are still on a steep learning curve, your upper body is likely to be still moving a bit. take that into account and think of always following the horse's reins with your hands.

as just jump says, it is a problem many peope are wrestling with after many years of practice, so don't beat yourself up because you can't do it all perfectly now. keep it in mind, but don't obsess over it.
i find that straps or holding onto the mane (i prefer to use the mane, but can have the straps so that the pinky curls round it, not hooks under it - so that if the horse yanks you forward the pinky just comes off the strap. i am surreptitiously simulating it with my hand and headphone cable at my desk, but can't work out how to describe it!) hel pto give awareness of a problem - if someone hasn't worked out that their hands are wobling - but once you already know about it i don't think it's that helpful.

ETA - a friend of mine did lose her figner wrapping a baler twine leadrope around it, so i am also very conscious of that kind of thing - but it is possible to do it safely. in general i agree with just jump's teacher on the inadvisability of anchoring yourself onto anything.

[Jessey]

The best thing I did for steadying hands was work in an upstairs office of 12 people who liked alot of tea :D when you can carry a tray of 12 very full mugs of tea up and down stairs without spilling a drop you know your hands can stay still pretty intependantly of the rest of your body :D

J x

[de_Stille_een]

Ask your RI if you can do a few lunge lessons-- the RI lunges the horse while you ride without reins, and possibly without stirrups. A lot of riders hang on the horse's mouth because they're actually using their hands to help steady and balance themselves. If you can ride without reins at all, though, and get used to using the reins only for communication, that should help improve your ride.

Also, make sure you're following the horse's head-- grab to lead ropes or something, ask a friend to hold the ends of them in their hands and mimic the rhythmic movement of a horse's head. Focus on maintaining contact but not hitting on the reins at all. If you need to, ask your friend to start jumping around or yelling as if they were in pain anytime you "bump them in the mouth." This exercise is especially helpful when practiced in a busy, public place where you're likely to be embarassed by your friend's odd behavior. :p

[cvb]

Can i have some help from some one please ?

I start of with hands in the right poss then with out me knowning they are on the horses neck

why is that?

horsesaddle (where are you in Scotland ?)

it may be that you are closing the hip up a fraction, as I suggested with Rob, which will tip you forward a tiny tiny amount. A tiny tip makes a massive difference to your hands as it puts the whole balance off... and moves your centre of gravity (normally forward).

Try it sitting on a seat. Sit in riding position with arms and hands in "correct" position. Now just move say 1 degree forward and see what happens, add another degree.. you probably don't feel like you are leaning forward but the hands will be lower and your balance point moves forward and towards them.

(I like the idea of your "centre" being inside your belt ;) - even a small tip forward moves it outside your belt).

[Rob26]

I have the opposite problem.. I start with my hands nice and low but they end up coming higher.. I dont use them for support.. I can ride fine without reins..

I have no idea how bad they are cos I cant see them, my instructor pulls me up on them. I also think gloves may help.. because it's been cold, I end up with freezing hands and they start going numb.. i'm gonna invest in some gloves and see what happends?!

I need to get myself on the digicam so you guys can see what's going on :)

[raingodz]

You ride with out gloves in this weather :eek:

it could be that the reins are slipping through you hands and to compensate you raise your hands rather than shortening the rein. I have to wear gloves or I find the reins slip through my hands (and I get blisters :()

[Rob26]

When my hands are cold the get really clumsy.. you can't feel what yoo're doing properly! by the end of last lesson I couldn't even feel the reins in my hand!

Just ordered some SSG Comp one's..

[cvb]

My main problem at the moment seems to be my hands. I'm too heavy with them and they're arn't still enough. I know it's a problem and my RI picks me up on it.


so heavy,but "up" ? not heavy and down.... just to clarify

bizarrely this may also be a balance thing, but in the opposite direction ;) and it might be that you're fine without reins, and its having a contact that causes the problem..

if so, then you might want to look into the whole "engage the core muscles thing" - cos that'd probably help give you some stability and still those hands

[Rob26]

Hmm how do I describe it... I guess it's more of pulling towards me, not so much up, deffinately not down... My hands seem to move when they should in fact be still I think.. My RI keeps telling me to shorten the reins, so then I end up fidgeting with my hands in order to shorted the rein.

I think my hands move about too much, and that movement is not as soft as it could perhaps be.

My hands will start to come up a bit if I get a little tense I think.

I don't think the movement is massive but 'I' think it ****es my school horse off. Room for improvement for sure.

[cvb]

Ok - there may be a small element of balance in there, but it sounds to me like you are taking up the "slack" in the rein by moving your hand, rather than adjusting the rein.

Sometimes it can help to have an image of holding a wheel barrow and pushing it.. that can stop the "take back" of the reins. The balance element comes into the picture if you find that you feel less balanced with your hand "leading" you and in front. Then you will regain balance by bringing the hand back to your stomach. Core muscle engagement can help a lot with that ;) Often bringing the hand back is counter-effective as you end up with the upper body locked together and hence it actually bounces MORE :p

If you get the chance to have a lunge lesson, try the "put one arm straight out in front of you" exercise and see how much it moves. (I have fun with this one is my hand and arm move more when I look at them :rolleyes: but not when I look elsewhere !). You can do both arms at once if the instructor is ok about it.

[Horsesaddle]

I m North of Scotland but my nearest town in Aberdeen


Thank you cvb for that idea it did work i'll try it again soon :)

just one more question cvb or Rob when is the eariest i start to do jumping again ?

[cvb]

just one more question cvb or Rob when is the eariest i start to do jumping again ?

"earliest" and "again" ... after what ?

it will depend a lot on the school, horse and instructor. But I would want someone to have WTC, stop, go, steer - consistently - and have good balance. I would use jumping position and ground pole exercises to assess if they were ready or not.

[Horsesaddle]

I just want to start jumping again its ages since i have done pole jumoping

[cvb]

horsesaddle

your horse or in lessons ? If its your own, you can build up from trot poles and then add a small cross pole after a clear stride at the end...see how you go over a small cross and work on any issues before progressing.

[Dummer&Drummer]

Im a novicey sort, but here are a few things ive learnt.

hard hands can come from the shoulders and the elbows, you dont want your hands to be so still they are not giving with the horse, eg you shoulders should be down and relaxed and your elbows should be able to give with the horses movement, so eg ideally you are looking to keep the same even contact but your hand from the relaxed elbow should be moving backwards and forwards with the movement of the horses head - hope this helps a bit - very novice explanation :)

also high hands not so much of a problem seen as though you mention she is leaning on the hands. my horse leans quite a bit in the snaffle and a few things i do is to lift the hands before she leans and also give away one rein when she leans - eg move hand forwards and back so he looses the contact and picks his head up - this seems to work for me, also the use of the legs to say 'oy get off my hand' :)

[ajhainey]

I rode for a while with my crop balanced on the top of my hands - incredibly tricky but does help you notice what you are doing with them (in my case I seem to always drop the hand I'm turning towards which results in loss of crop pretty quick :()

Only to be tried with horses that are absolutely fine with crops btw - it's a bit disconcerting for them - especially if you drop it!

aj xx

[Horsesaddle]

In Lessons to cbv :)

[teapot]

Just ordered some SSG Comp one's..

fantastic gloves they are :D

First of all - try not to worry about getting her into an outline. Once the back end's engaged she'll be more enclined to work "correctly"

You may find at the moment whilst you're asking for her to soften etc that as this happens, she's transferring more of her weight onto her forehand and thus making her more heavy in the hands.

Have you tried riding without reins and performing school movements via your legs and seat? Might be worth a go in one of your lessons.