Legs flapping...uncontrolled canter..worried!

[lgourlay36]

Hiya...this is a bit long (sorry)
...only had about 6 lessons after a 20 year absence from riding. Last night got the very lazy RS horse to go into a canter but I felt that I didnt have any control over his speed or where he went.
I cant seem to keep contact with him in a canter as my legs seem to flap when I try to apply the aids (outside foot back behind the girth, shorten my inside rein and kicking on with both feet ...cos hes non responsive to simple pressure) I lose balance the minute he canters and either end up with him veering off to the side, cantering really fast and scaring the life out of me then stopping quickly or simply ignoring me completely and going back to a walk.
I look around at everyone else and they are all managing to get very controlled canters and can continue to apply the aids without any obvious signs of them doing this and they are getting their horses to do circles, change the rein etc without any problem. This is very discouraging as I now think Im hopeless. I realise they have been there for a lot longer than me and are on possibly more forward going horses.
The RI wants me to try jumping next week eek! He says he will put me on a better horse tho...one that you can point at a jump and it will do all the right stuff to get me over...hopefully not straight over its head!

[cvb]

Hiya...this is a bit long (sorry)
...only had about 6 lessons after a 20 year absence from riding. Last night got the very lazy RS horse to go into a canter but I felt that I didnt have any control over his speed or where he went.
I cant seem to keep contact with him in a canter as my legs seem to flap when I try to apply the aids (outside foot back behind the girth, shorten my inside rein and kicking on with both feet ...cos hes non responsive to simple pressure) I lose balance the minute he canters and either end up with him veering off to the side, cantering really fast and scaring the life out of me then stopping quickly or simply ignoring me completely and going back to a walk.
I look around at everyone else and they are all managing to get very controlled canters and can continue to apply the aids without any obvious signs of them doing this and they are getting their horses to do circles, change the rein etc without any problem. This is very discouraging as I now think Im hopeless. I realise they have been there for a lot longer than me and are on possibly more forward going horses.
The RI wants me to try jumping next week eek! He says he will put me on a better horse tho...one that you can point at a jump and it will do all the right stuff to get me over...hopefully not straight over its head!

to kick, you have to first take your leg away - this loses the contact, reduces your stability, and causes the "flap".

Also riders that end up having to kick tend to end up doing to much with the rest of themselves as well - way too much going on - which looks messy but also makes life much harder for the rider !

You need to get assertive ;) You say "cos hes non responsive to simple pressure" - so what would you need to do (other than kick) to get him to respond ? (ask your instructor as well). Often with the horses they use for beginners (or returners) the rider needs to carry a whip - not to use, just to get the attention of the horse so they know you mean business ! Do you carry a whip ? You'll find that if you use it once or twice as a back up to say "No you really HAVE to listen to my leg" you will then probably not need it much at all ;)

The "losing balance" is probably linked to "doing too much" - if you can ride with less effort on your part, you will find it easier to remember to breathe, and to stay in balance ;)

[lgourlay36]

Hi cvb, thanks for replying:)

The RI just keeps saying the horse is very lazy and makes me carry a whip all the time, I just tap the horse with it but the RI tells me to give him a hard kick and hit him with it which I dont like doing. I didnt use my whip at all last night but had to really kick him on....isnt this continual kicking actually making the horse likely to be less responsive?
Ive read that if a horse becomes unresponsive the rider should actually go back to schooling the horse using light aids.... dont know how this would work with this horse and hes generally used for beginners.
Do you think it would help if I did some flatwork without stirrups to deepen my seat and hopefully improve my overall ability to control the horse? I dont like to ask the RI, although hes a top bloke and hes never asked me to do this yet. I just want to blend in with everyone else on the lesson cos Im the new person and dont know what im doing yet.

[sweuzo]

he wiull listen if you show him you mean business by using the whip... dont be scared of giving him a whack if he deserves it... it sounds more painful than it actually is....

[cvb]

isnt this continual kicking actually making the horse likely to be less responsive?


bingo :)

the question is what incentive does the horse have to respond to lighter aids ? If you use a lighter aid, give him a chance to respond, and then escalate - he will learn to respond to the first "ask". When you use the whip, it needs to be assertive, not a flap or tickle ;) I'd go for soft leg backed up by assertive whip.

beginner horses tend to be very good judges of character and will - they know when you don't really mean it :p

Work without stirrups can help improve the seat, but if you don't have good balance to start with it can create all sorts of "bad" tensions and gripping etc

[Morganna]

I cant seem to keep contact with him in a canter as my legs seem to flap when I try to apply the aids (outside foot back behind the girth, shorten my inside rein and kicking on with both feet ...cos hes non responsive to simple pressure) I lose balance the minute he canters and either end up with him veering off to the side, cantering really fast and scaring the life out of me then stopping quickly or simply ignoring me completely and going back to a walk.!

This sounds exactly like me on my first attempt at canter after 15 years, I was all over the place but with practice you get more confident and more controlled. I was never told to whack with a whip though, my RI concentrated on my seat and gave me a lung lesson without reins to concentrate on my legs and I had a lesson without stirrups also which improved my seat and helped me to relax. I found I was tensing up when going into canter and gripping with my thighs which meant we got two strides of canter and then back to trot. I was also using my reins to steady myself which obviously gave the horse the message to slow down, poor thing didnt know which way was up those first few lessons. I'm now happily able to get my loan horse into canter and am very comfortable doing so - dont worry you will get there:)

[cvb]

I should clarify - nothing wrong with asking about a lunge lesson...with or without stirrups.

[Nimrod]

I had a lesson yesterday which was ditto to yours. If you are in a group and it sounds like the instructor is good ('top bloke') could you afford 1 or even 2 privae lessons just to do canter. I have private lessons simply because at the mo I can't canter for all the same reasons. I grip with my knees becos I am scared and then I lose my stirrups and then I stop! I canter all over the school (and I mean all over-the instructor parks herself well up the corner!). I cannot keep the canter going and it is all EXTREMELY frustrating. I have had lessons since september last year (I haven't ridden before) and started canter about 7 lessons ago but haven't improved. In fact I think I am getting worse!! My instructor has started getting me to ride deeply by work without stirrups. The RS horse is a beauty but he does need steering even in walk andtrot and I can do it in those gaits because I am in control (for those experienced riders-I know I am in control as only a beginner and not fully in control). I don't know the answer because I too have not cracked it. The RI (who is also fantastic) put her finger on i becos she says although I give the right aids I am actually scared and so not definite enough and the horse guesses I'm not happy and takes advantge. Guess we just have to keep trying. I wish I had more than half an hour to get it right!! Good luck, please let me know how you are getting on>

[lgourlay36]

Hi Nimrod....wish I could afford private lessons cos that would be great. Thanks for the support (im a bit of a nervous nellie I think...the first week I was on him he must have known and hardly broke into a trot).
I remember when I first started riding (when I was about 12) and I had absolutely no fear...wish I still felt like that.

Thanks to everybody who posted a reply...you guys are great and I REALLY appreciate your advice.:D
xx

[stormchaser]

Well in my experience (having lessons in an RS and riding a schoolie as well), this sort of thing isn't fixed in one or two lessons or a few rides. You need fairly good muscle strength in your legs to apply aids effectively without having legs going all over the place. This comes from riding over time or cross training (cycling, running, gym, whatever). Kicking is the easy way out in one sense, although it almost always messes up your position. You need to be able to simply tighten your calf muscles, or give a stronger inward squeeze. If he does not listen to that, whip.

Horses are really good at sensing nerves. It works both ways--if you get nervous and think that you can't control him, you won't control him. However if you tap into this ability, he will also be able to sense if you want to go left or right. So THINK the direction, draw the direction out with your eyes and go.

Is it possible to have some saddle time with the other horse doing some flatwork? Even with a schoolie (I'd say, especially with a schoolie) you need to get to know them and they need to get to know you before you want to do something more ambitious like jumping. I just started jumping too--it's really fun, nothing to be worried about, since you'll be doing little jumps to get started anyway.

[Nimrod]

Stormchaser, thanks that was a really interesting post. I seem to be taking longer with the canter/steering but you are absolutely right I think...at the end of the lesson the instructor suggested I do some thigh strengthening exercises. She deduced this by getting me to stand up in the stirrups, push my hips forward and tuck my bottom under. Sounds easy but I could only just do it and at walk and trot managed only 2 strides before I fell back into the saddle with a bump. She said I need to be able to do it, stay up and then lower myself back into the saddle. To demonstrate the power of looking where you are going...as you suggest...we did some turnswithout the rein contact at all to show how it works, i had never realised its importance. The main reason I love riding is because I am not a particular animal lover excpt I have always loved horses and I really enjoy my lessons so much I don't care how long it takes to get the hang of things......that's what its all about really! Anyway, thanks again, get such good advice on these boards and I will really remember what you have said XX (SORRY IF I HIJACKED THE THREAD AT ALL)