Clicker training - tell me all about it

[chickflick1066]

I've been looking at doing something 'new' with Stumpy recently - something to spice up activities. We already have a 'good' bond you could call it - she comes to call, can be trusted to lead with no headcollar on/or just headcollar with me not holding on etc. but thats about it.

I tried to do some 'groundwork' the other night, like backing her up, getting her to yield to pressure but I didn't think I was doing it right so it didn't work! Haha.

I've been on a rather informative website about CT but I'm still not sure where to start.

So this thread is basically for you to throw all pros and cons of clicker training at me! I'd like on info:
> How to go about starting the CT
> What to do with CT
> Anything else really.

Thanks in advance :)

[mayS]

> How to go about starting the CT

Please look at the other clicker training threads here on this forum. It's too much to explain all over again. :D

Consider buying "Clicker Train your horse". Or just google it for other fan pages.

> What to do with CT

Anything you want! Anything you train the other ways can be taught with clicker. Think about what you'd like to improve about your horse, and start there (once your horse understands the basics behind clickertraining).

For example I see many horses who do not line up nicely at mounting blocks or who won't stand still. This is a wonderful thing you can improve with clicker training (with bit just before riding or without bit as a part of groundwork). Teach him to step exactly where you want and remain still. Then practice using other things like fences and logs as mounting blocks in case you ever want to trail ride.

[esse]

I've been looking at doing something 'new' with Stumpy recently - something to spice up activities. We already have a 'good' bond you could call it - she comes to call, can be trusted to lead with no headcollar on/or just headcollar with me not holding on etc. but thats about it.

I tried to do some 'groundwork' the other night, like backing her up, getting her to yield to pressure but I didn't think I was doing it right so it didn't work! Haha.

I've been on a rather informative website about CT but I'm still not sure where to start.

So this thread is basically for you to throw all pros and cons of clicker training at me! I'd like on info:
> How to go about starting the CT
> What to do with CT
> Anything else really.

Thanks in advance :)

Making the demand "tell me all about it" is a bit presumptive, don't you think? People get PhDs in order to learn a bit more about it - so thinking that some anonymous person on a website is going to be willing - or able! - tell you all about is a being rather over-optimistic.

However, getting started isn't difficult at all, but making progress might be unless you have some understanding of the principles of what you're trying to do, and how (and how not!) to do it.

Why not get one of Alexandra Kurland's or Karen Pryor's books as well as searching this site and the web. Perhaps you might also want to search the web on BF Skinner and Operant Conditioning - that would be a good start if you really do want to find out all about it!

[KateWooten]

OUCH ! I didn't think she was being presumptious at all - just happily enthusiastic !!! I don't know much about clicker training, else I'd point you to a few useful sites, but I'm sure everyone else can.

Kate

[BeachRiding]

esse- I think that was rude of you and out of place to say! like kate said she is just happily enthusiastic! I clicker train my dogs so if want specific info, its the same concept on horses, just pm me!

[Shadowlark]

Clicker training - or Operant conditioning is a wonderful training technique that can be used on any species of animals. It's cheap to try and very very effective! I have trained severl different species of animals but specialize in dogs. Having said that Splash has a few things in his repitoire that were either improved by clicker training - or were taught entirely. (like his run around the barrel trick)

The real BASIC premis is to use a small plastic noise maker to "mark" the behaviour you like. By marking the behavior and creating a food association you increase the likelyhood the animal will do it again. Because it can be done quickly and without emotion the signal that the animals is right is extremely clear.
Now having said that -
You can acheive bahaviours different ways. You can Lure using food into position - say in teh case of a bow putting the food between the horses front legs.. they follow the smell to get it.. click and treat.
you can target train - teach them to touch a stick with thier nose and use that as a lure also.
You can Shape the behaviour (succesive aproximation) - this one is harder as you need to have good timing for it. Say I want Splash to go arroung a barrel without luring him. I will bring him into the arena at liberty with the barrel. If he LOOKS at the barrel I will click and treat. Once he "gets" that looking gets him food I will ask more of him - now he needs to aproach the barrel to get a click - and build it up from there until I say barrel and my horse books it down the arena to swing around the barrel and come back to me.

Obviously this is a basic overview. If you were to call around to dog trainers you would likely find one will ing to give you a good demo on how it works with dogs :)

[Kimo]

I do clicker training with my horse, my dog (just got her!), and my two cats. Go to http://www.theclickercenter.com/ for info on horse training. Also see http://www.clickertraining.com/home/ for basic info on clicker training. There are a few Yahoo groups on horses:

http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=clicker+training+horses

The biggest is clickryder and you'll quickly be overwhelmed ;) but keep on reading. It's fun! Good luck!

[esse]

OUCH ! I didn't think she was being presumptious at all - just happily enthusiastic

KateWooten, I'll thank you not to state untruths. Show me where I used the word "presumptious", or even implied that chickflick was being "presumptious" (I think you mean presumptuous).

esse- I think that was rude of you and out of place to say! like kate said...

WillieLove, it might be wise for you to remember that (a)echoing other people's posts without forethought in order to bandy insults about is not always a good idea (b) this is the 21C and it is nobody's - and certainly not your! - right to dictate anybody else's "place". The feudal system scarcely thrives in most Western democracies, regardless of how some may regret that fact.

Presumptuous - arrogant; forward; overstepping due bounds (as of propriety or courtesy) : taking liberties.

I rather think that this word was first used (as part of an untruth) in this thread by KateWooten, then agreed upon by WillieLove.

Presumptive - based on probability; having belief that there are reasonable grounds; an opinion believed to be reasonable.

So who is being presumptuous here?

KW for stating a blatant untruth about a word I wrote, actually claiming I used a totally different word to the one I did use?

WL for openly calling me "rude" and attempting to dictate to me what my "place" is or isn't, and supporting KW in her blatant untruth?

Or me for attempting to explain to chickflick her belief that someone will be able to tell her all about clicker training is unfortunately not as reasonable as she seems to think, because it is such a vast subject? Surely it is wise that chickflick should be aware of both the avalanche of information which is available once she delves beyond the merely superficial, and of a couple of the most popular trainers/authors to whom she can refer, and even of the "founder" of modern behavioural science, should she wish to go further along the operant training road?

Of course, it may be presumptuous of me to say that KW and WL need to learn how to use a dictionary. Then they might realise that, just because two words look or even sound somewhat similar, if only in part, they need not share the same meaning.

[KateWooten]

Woweee !!! You are correct, I did presume you meant presumptuous, and yes, I should have looked up the spelling of that word, I am sorry.

I had struggled to find some meaning in your original phrase Making the demand "tell me all about it" is a bit presumptive, don't you think?... so you really did mean presumptive !!! You really meant that chickflick, 'making the demand' (your words) was being a bit 'based on probability' ??? ... or, was a bit 'having a reasonable basis for belief or acceptance' ??? Do you see my problem here, I'm really struggling to find a meaning for the word 'presumptive' as you used it.

No doubt you will enlighten us. Do tell.

Failing to find any sensible meaning in it, I presumed you had meant the word presumptuous... which would convert your somewhat baffling first sentence into an eminently logical one - conveying the idea that you thought she was presuming too much by demanding a complete outline of clicker training in a single thread. Rather than draw attention to this very minor point and thus detract from chickflick's thread, I simply swapped in the word which appeared to make sense. We can, of course, debate ad nauseam each and every typo or grammatical error, but personally, I think horse training is more interesting.

Esse, I didn't say you were rude at all. I didn't say it because I didn't think you were. I just wanted to nip any potential misunderstanding of chickflick's question in the bud because from this, and her other posts, she comes across as a happy enthusiast, wanting to learn as much as she can and do the best for her horse. Well, whatever. I think anyone's search for information about any type of training should be greeted with encouragement - the search for information has to start somewhere, and surely here is as good a place as any ?

Kate

[hApPiNeSs]

good grief - does EVERY post have to turn into a silly little bicker? :rolleyes:

[Kimo]

Yes, I agree, happiness... It's common to misunderstand on listservs, so just in the name of being nice, I'll give a few pointers to chickflick1066--

I started by clicking/treating with Mari. Please read up on this part, because some horses get so excited for treats they can really push you around. If she tried to go "in my pocket" nothing, but when she pulled away, CT! Timing is important. You'll know when you do it wrong because your horse will lose interest or become very confused. A good rule of thumb I use, is that the click comes as the horse is offering the behavior, not after it's finished. From CT, I went onto targeting, which is very useful at times. Then, I used it to teach tricks and so on.

A few general tips:

--Break everything into tiny steps and you'll have a happy horse, trying to figure out the game.
--Start each session with a goal in mind, but if your horse gets confused, go back to smaller steps.
--Only do a few minutes here, a few minutes there. Soon, you're horse will spot the clicker and understand that fun is on the way!

I swapped from a hand-held clicker to using my mouth and making a click noise. She recognized it immediately.

I've used clicker training for basic good manners (just imagine anything you want to happen and that's what I use it for), good foot handling, picking up objects, picking people's pockets, dropping objects into buckets. I've also begun using it for things like holding still while mounting (not quite there yet!), moving forward in a straight line while riding, stopping nicely while riding, etc. There are wonderful trainers out there, just waiting to teach you how to do this stuff!

Last night, I used it in a possible disasterous situation. I took my horse out of her pasture in the dark, we went around the side of a building and a huge gust of wind came up, rattled the metal on the roof, and she sprung into action, whirling around and really scared. I stood quietly and the second she paused and gave me a look, I clicked and she flew up to get her treat. Then, while walking again, another gust of wind came up and the same thing happened, but it was much less scary. She stopped, looked toward me expectantly. CT! We made it into the barn safe and sound, so there's a point where you can expand clicker training into shaping a safe horse.

Good luck!!

[Gypsy_star]

oooh.. what an interesting post!!

I have a section on clicker training and would be more than happy to answer questions via email about clicker training..

my site: www.equinebehaviourist.co.uk

xxxxxx

[chickflick1066]

Woopsy, what have I done :o

My original intention was just gather a bit more information about CT before I decide to anything. I was hoping you guys on here would guide me in making an informed decision as to whether clicker training is something i'd like to do.

I didn't mean to cause an argument:o

[mayS]

I was hoping you guys on here would guide me in making an informed decision as to whether clicker training is something i'd like to do. I didn't mean to cause an argument

No arguement... the answer is "yes" you should do clicker. :D

Give it a shot. You cant possibly hurt anything by trying it, and who knows you might like it.

Please let us know how it works out. And when you have questions, please dont hesitate to ask. The only people I've found who had problems clicker training are the ones who got to an inevitable problem or question and just gave up rather than ask for help.

Best of luck!

[coblover26]

Oh no!!! What have you done Araminta :D tut tut

I also agree with happiness about the bickering.
Just see it as a question that someone would like to know a bit more about from some friendly people on this forum :)