Moooooody Mare Question!

[Rob26]

Hey everyone,

Just got back from my lesson. My usual RI is away so I had another one. Lots of trot and a little canter and we worked on leg yields in walk and trot. I'm progressing every week in all departments and most importantly enjoying myself!

As always Rosie started out really well but in the last third of the lesson she starts getting moody. It seemed she was perfectly happy to work at walk, would just about tolerate trot and was being a little cow in canter.

When we went up into canter she kept bucking, teath, tack etc all fine and I knew it wasn't high spirits because she was putting her ears back and they were fairly sizeable bucks too, i'm just fortunate I appear to have a pretty good seat.

Now the problem is not so much her bucking, but what I should do in repsonse. My RI today thought it best we just worked on the leg yields towards the end after her clear objection! probably trying to avoid me ending up on the deck and having to fill out the accident report as a result. which leads to my question...

When she started bucking, my reaction was to try to get her back down to walk as quickly as possible.... my natural self preservation response BUT... is this not what she wants me to do? If I give in and say OK have it your way, am I right to think she'll just keep taking the michael?

Should I instead keep insisting on canter, attempt to ride out the bucks and hope she'll get the message that I wont give in that easily? I'm trying to avoid ending up on the deck! but at the same time down want her to be in control.

Any ideas? :)

[No_Angel]

i think that if you feel confident on her, and if you have a good seat, push her through the bucks. once shes done what you ask without bucking, start on another exercise to keep her interested and keep her thinking.

[Rob26]

I'm confident but I must admit when I see the ears back I thought.. oh dear here we go! they were meaningful bucks! and when she dropped into trot it was more jogging etc I could see she was cheesed off! and trying to get her to stop wasn't easy either... one moody mare!

To push her on in canter, should I just keep asking with the leg?

[No_Angel]

she sounds a bit storry, so i wouldnt force the issue, just give a slight nudge with the heels. if she bucks again try and guage whether she needs another nudge or for you to just sit there, yo dont want her to explode. if she then does a few nice strides of canter, bring her back to trot and circle, then give her a pat so she knows thats what shes supposed to do. if you can try and talk to her to calm her down when your cantering. i always talk to my horse and explain to her what im doing, people might think im mad, but it calms her down.

[alfie1410]

My mare is a little bit inclined this way when she's in season, I always find it best to take my weight off her back when asking for canter (use a more forward seat) then letting myself back down as she settles, I always find it important to remember that they do experience aches and pains relating to hormones and react accordingly.

You have to be secure in your forward seat, just in case they do still pop in a buck, however, I like to push her through it and then I find she doesn't bother again.

I know they are not meant to be in season yet, but some mares cycle through the winter months and some don't.

All are different though, you've got to play it pear shape and see where she takes you unfortunately.

[cvb]

Rob

you know the whole thing about an aid getting a response i.e. if you put your leg on, the horse moves forward, and thats the right response so you take your leg off ??

Well it works both ways if you are not careful, and the horse trains you !

I know - I have a horse that "hopped" in trot. Now some of this WAS physical. But on top of that I trained her that if she hopped, I would ask her to walk.... not the right thing to train :o Luckily I cottoned on quite quickly.. and the hopping was not big enough to be a safety risk...

So - your response to bring her back to walk was presumably a decision based on preserving your safety - right idea, but not the only answer. What you need to do is prevent the bucking, and if they do buck - stop it a.s.a.p. !

Prevention: with a school horse you rarely have the option to look into back issues, saddle, teeth, bit etc. But bear that in mind for when you do have your own horse !

So the next phase is a short term prevention... in order to buck the horse normally needs to lower their head. The problem with keeping the head up is that if there IS a back issue going on (with a mare it could be ovaries rather than spine or muscles), then putting them in a short elevated outline can make it worse. But bear it in mind as an option. In general having the horse properly between leg and hand will help big time. So watch that they aren't dropping back behind the leg. (lateral work and transitions will help here, as will half-halts).

The other is to turn the head slightly. A horse with their neck laterally flexed can not brace the neck.

So that could be where the lateral work comes in. If you rode a very slight shoulder fore in trot, and asked for canter from that...

again if there are phsyical issues, you will spot this as they will struggle with the flexion and the shoulder fore. if this happens, you know it is not fair to carry on asking. But a nice benefit is that if it is something that will loosen up with work, the shoulder fore is a great way to do that.

By this stage you should find the buck is getting less likely and smaller, and that you have ruled out any serious physical issue. So - when the horse bucks they are directing the energy "up" rather than "forward". You want to direct it forward to help them. (By walking you are doing the opposite - you take the energy "back"). Thats where the "riding through it" comes in - but you can help by engaging your core muscles, so that you have a strong, stable, but light seat. Don't "drive" the horse forward. Just think about each stride being slightly longer than the one before. You want to avoid them going on the forehand so think of having the hind quarters under, the hind leg stepping further through. It sounds mad but just thinking that will help as your energy and balance will work slightly differently then ;)

[KateWooten]

Along those same lines - I thought of something too. IMO horses rarely buck unless something's bothering them. Even if the saddle fits, and everything, it occurs to me to suggest that the majority of riding school pupils are young girls, and... well, an adult man just balances differently - he has a different center of mass to a young girl, and he just feels different to the horse, especially when he's learning. Now I do not want to suggest that you don't have a good independent seat ... sounds to me like you're doing great and working hard on developing good balance, but I'd want to check out whether she bucks in the same circumstances with, say, the RI on board, or another advanced student.

Kate

[Rob26]

Yeah I should have asked the RI to hop on and have a go... although then it may simply be a case of her knowing she cant take the mick with the RI!

The thing is she's not normally like this.. it's only over the last couple of lessons she's been getting arsey.. this week worse than last so i'm really hoping it's just horsey hormones kicking in!

If she tries it next lessons she'll be getting a different repsonse from me, thats for sure.. not gonna back down so easy!

She was a good girl for the rest of the lessons though.. so I still gave her fuss at the end.. I can't help it she's so gorgeous! :)

[Crazyhorse]

My instructor's words of wisdom are " the first five minutes are the most important of the lesson", which is so true. If you ride very postively at the beginning it has such effect on your riding. I ride a mare who is quite moody. She is ridiculously strong and has trouble bending on the left rein, and so tries to cuts corners and run out as it's harder work for her. This 5 minute mantra has worked well with her and we have gelled. She also gets very on the forehand and so heavy in the hand that she could almost tip you over the saddle, but as soon as she works correctly from the back she is a dream. Good luck.

[cvb]

Kate

Thanks - I missed that one ;)

Rob, Kate has a lovely subtle way of saying it, but men tend to sit slightly protectively of their assets. This can lead to them having their pelvis tipped/rotated back slightly, which shifts their weight back slightly. So if there is a mirror about, check that you are sitting tall in the saddle and haven't taken the "S" out of your back... think of those amazing Spanish Riding Schools chaps and thats what you are aiming for...

[KateWooten]

LOL cvb - yep you're a lot clearer than I was !

I remember trying to teach a middle-aged beginner one time in Italy - he forgot to wear his 'special underwear' one time, and was shouting 'break all, everything break' in a high-pitched tone. We stopped working on trot-canter transitions for a while. :eek:

[Rob26]

Thanks everyone :D