Problem areas - dismount or stay aboard?

[katieB]

After arguing with Milly last night about going up a path she didnt want to, I was thinking about how to deal with these kinds of situations in the future. Ive heard people say that its best not to dismount and lead from the floor if you can help it. Use my situation as an example, horse just didn't want to turn away from home as she felt she had done enough, I disagreed so we fought about it for 10 minutes. The alternative would have been to dismount as soon as she decided to argue and quietly lead her up the path and get on a bit further up. Now I feel like because I made such a fuss about making her go up there she will remember it more than if id got off and led her. What does everyone else do at times like this? Is it better to stay aboard and persevere or dismount and not cause a fuss?

[Afellpony]

It depends on the situation - mostly I try to stay aboard but I have also baled out!!! The choice is yours but, I reckon it's best stay aboard if you can. If you bale out (unless it's a really dangerous or impossible situation), the horse has won because he/she thinks, "ah ha I've got my rider on the run"!!!!!!

[MollyLolly]

well it depends. does she respect you? was she shacking nervously? were you nervous? was there any potential scary monsters around? i would prefer to stay onboard BUT if the situation becomes too much then i would get off for my sakes and hers. if it does become a problem again.. whats wrong in taking it into little steps. take her through both ways with you unmounted at a walk then try at a trot, then mount etc. work out the real problem first.

[katieB]

I thinkshe respects me, on the ground she doesnt barge or push me around, she's well mannered without me ever having to use force. She is easy to work with she is genuinely scared of something and I rarely dismount to get past a scary object. The difference being she never 'stamps her feet' if she is scared, there is an obvious difference in her behaviour.
I lack confidence in dealing with naughty behaviour and last night I knew she was just being naughty so I was reluctant to stay aboard and deal with the problem. But now ive thought about it, ive realised I made such a fuss trying to get her to move that ive highlighted the problem. The aim of what I was trying to do was get her down that path, I dont think she would feel like she 'won' if I was on foot rather than on board.
I should add, I never actually got her down the path :o she backed up that much we ended up back in the yard so I ended up dismounting and taking her up to the school for 20 minutes hard work.

[casey]

I normally ride through it. But am not adverse to getting off and leading. I suppose it depends on the horse i'm riding, someare arse's and will fight to the point of stupidity (therefore I will lead) and some will take direction.:)

[DITZ]

If horse is napping (like it sounds your was - not wanting to turn away from home) then getting off isnt going to make much progress in the long run. Only time it helps is if horse is not sure/scared about going somewhere/past something then being on the ground with him can be reassuring and help build his confidence. Not aversed to getting off and leading a horse past something but I'd try and get him to go forward on his own first but there comes a point (usually when I run out of time) when I'd get off.

I think if its napping it'll just be repeated as soon as you get back on.

[Trewsers]

It depends on the situation, I got off Storm once and led her - everybody chastised me on the yard when I got back and said I'd done wrong (not very helpful for somebody about to burst into tears with the stress of just having got their first horse and only had it 2 days:eek: ) I'd probably not get off her again - the other week for instance she had a problem going past a big black bin liner full of empty beer cans - it was flapping and she was genuinely scared so I had to push her on past it - the result was she flew past sideways pushing me into the hedge :eek: luckily I didn't get caught on anything - but hey, at least she went past!!!:D You have to do what you think is best, I think you did right making her do some work afterwards.

[Whatanejit]

Kelly Marks suggest that if it is a scarey monster that it is kind to get off and walk for a while and then get back on. While you are walking past you can touch scarey monstor and look at it for a while.

Not sure about napping, though.

xx

[Mehitabel]

it does dpeend, yes, on many things.

-do you feel safer on top or on the floor?
-are you more likely to fall off, or to let go if you are on the ground nad it starts arsing about?
-is it really frightened, or taking the mickey?
-are you on a road?

personally, i am a getter-off. especially if the horseis genuinely frightened - i lead it up to the monster, touch it, let the horse sniff my hand, prove to horse that it won't eat me. then i get on and then i ride up to it, around it, etc. for instance the last time i did this it was a patch of ash from a bonfire - it was cold, but still smelt of burning. horse was having none of it., but tremblingly followed me up to it, where i kicked it around, picked some ash up, let horse sniff ash - and then remounted and rode round it, over it etc.
horse learned several things 1 - that i will not make her go past terrifying things alone, 2 - that i am prepared ot go and investigate monsters for her, and 3 - that when i say something is OK, it really is OK.
so next time we approached a monster, when i let her stand and think about it she was happy to trust me not to ride her into the jaws of death.

remember that they have no idea what you planned to do - they don't know whether you had always planned to get off there and walk for a bit. so there is no 'winning' or 'getting away with it' if you hop off and walk past a monster. i do always (where practical) hop back on and ride past the mosnters as well though, just for practice.

[joosie]

If the horse is being naughty, I will stay on unless it is necessary for our safety for me to lead him past. If they're scared, I will try to ride them past whatever is frightening them, but if they are that scared I will get off and lead them - it's better than having them bolt onto a busy road or me falling off and breaking something!
Kizzy can be quite nappy and when it's just me and her I will stay on. But if we're on the road and she starts playing up when there's cars around, I get off because I can lead her out of harm's way. Recently I also got off because she was trying to catch up with two TBs in front of us (who we weren't riding with) and insisted on jogging sideways down a very steep hill. Highly preferable to her falling and ruining her knees!

[Mossy]

Depends on the circumstances and the horse. If it is a straight nap I try to stay on board, but even then sometimes I don't, eg a guy holding a gate open for me which madam refused to go through. Had I battled we would still have been there now and the guy would have thought me rude. Next time we went through that gate we had the discussion. :)

[HairyCob]

I'm a get off sort of girl... and I'm with Mehitabel- horse doesn't know that you didn't plan to get off and walk for a bit anyway! Having said that, I will also get off and walk for a bit when there is no reason to-that way the horse doesn't always associate me getting off with there being something scary or her ****ing about!

I'm not confident to 'ride through' really nappy, potentially dangerous behaviour and have learnt from bitter experience that when I try, I get nervous, the horse picks up on it, and the situation gets worse.

I'm also with Mehitabel on trying to ride past the scary spot afterwards or later though. Also, I don't ALWAYS get off now the minute Dolly starts to nap/jog/spin or whatever she's doing... I will try to ride her though it for a couple of minutes- one of two things happen- either she goes on as I've asked, with a kind of 'oh, well, it was worth a try but she means business' sort of attitude, or she gets worse, meaning she's really scared or uncomfortable about something, then I get off!

At the end of the day, the decision has to be yours and has to be based on safety- if it is safer to get off, then get off, if it's safer to stay on, stay on! Every horse is different, and what is safe for me and Dolly will be different for you!

[eventerbabe]

i'm not one for getting off. i'd much rather stay on board (as long as it was safe to do so) and ride them through it. toby was a major napper when he was younger and i tried the whole getting off and leading thing and it got us nowhere. if they are genuinely scared then i'd consider getting off and leading them past, but usually i find sitting quiet, scratching their neck and talking to the works well. my horse has enough trust in me to know that i wouldn't make him do anything scary, so usually a quick scratch on the neck and a few words encourages him past.

[teabiscuit]

if a monster is scary enough to the horse i get off and help him past it. never had a big issue with a napper, i find they usually don't want to carry on because of a genuine reason, not just being naughty. but i give my horses lots of time initially, when they're babies, so they don't get to a point where its a big do or die fight, so they don't learn to nap in the first place as they have no reason too.
there are no hard, fast rules with horses, you do what you feel is right at the time.
it usually turns out to be fine, and doing it someone elses way (non violent of course) would probably turn out fine too-horses are very accomodating, especially if you're reasonable with them, thank goodness.

[KateWooten]

In that precise situation, I would have stayed up there and resorted to my 'safe base' exercises. These are the very first exercises I would have done with the young horse on it's first rides, and the ones I know I can always return to. For me, they include lateral flexion (bending the horse's head oneside then the other), disengage the hindquarters( turn on the forehand), walking torn on the forehand, serpentines .... as soon as she didn't want to go forward, I'd have been doing all this stuff (it's all lateral movements, not things they can just 'refuse' to do) ... and then after a few minutes of activity, have her face the way we're going, and sit and think about it for 30 seconds. Then ask her to go foward with energy with a quick squeeze, cluck, spank. It's her choice at that point to take ust one small step for me (good, pet, praise, rub, stand for moment)... or to refuse and do all of those twisty windy athletic movements all over again. She only has to do one small step to earn her release ... soon enough she's figuring it's easier to take one small step than doing all that work.

I had to do this last month when bringing my 3 yr old (now 4) back into work ... the big thing about this, is it's a progressive trainign methodology - it won't just get you out of the situation right there, if you do it absolutely consistently, it will fix the problem. My mare was really sticky - rearing and backing down ditches, but she improveed noticeably each ride and was pretty much cured within a week. We still have to stop and stare occasionally when meeting new things in new places, and that's fine - acknowledge the new thing, sit and stare for 30 seconds, then go right back into the brisk and cheerful walk on again cue, she'll remember the routine.

[Mimi + Me]

When I first got my mare she had been working in a riding school for the past two years so was obviously only used to hacking out with other horses. So when I started riding her out on her own we used to have quite a few battle of wills with her absolutely refusing to go past various things (gardens full of chickens, underneath motorway tunnels). It would not matter how much leg I used or how insistent I was she wasn't going to budge.

So I used to get off and lead her as it was the only way I could get her past. Surely it's better to do that than to turn around and go back the same way, then they would think they have got the upper hand.

We only did it a few times but I see absolutely no reason not to do or that it's a bad thing in any way.

She is now absolutely fine going past these 'hot spots' now, in fact I often tease her now about how brave she is now going past the killer chickens all on her own. ;)

This is different from her napping though, which she still does from time to time. In these cases when she digs her heels in I persevere with getting her to go forwards, she knows I won't give in so albeit reluctantly will start to move on - at which point I make a big fuss of her and tell her what a good girl she is :)

[KateWooten]

In that precise situation, I would have stayed up there and resorted to my 'safe base' exercises. These are the very first exercises I would have done with the young horse on it's first rides, and the ones I know I can always return to. For me, they include lateral flexion (bending the horse's head oneside then the other), disengage the hindquarters (turn on the forehand), bending at a walk (walking turn on the forehand), serpentines .... as soon as she didn't want to go forward, I'd have been doing all this stuff (it's all lateral movements, not things they can just 'refuse' to do) ... and then after a few minutes of activity, have her face the way we're going, and sit and think about it for 30 seconds. Then ask her to go forward with energy with a quick squeeze, cluck, spank. It's her choice at that point to take just one small step for me (good girl, pet, praise, rub, stand for moment)... or to refuse and have do all of those twisty, windy, athletic movements all over again. She only has to do one small step to earn her release ... soon enough she's figuring it's easier to take one small step than doing all that work.

I had to do this last month when bringing my 3 yr old (now 4) back into work ... the big thing about this, is it's a progressive training methodology - it won't just get you out of the situation right there, if you do it absolutely consistently, it will fix the problem. My mare was really sticky - rearing and backing down ditches, but she improved noticeably each ride and was pretty much cured within a week. We still have to stop and stare occasionally when meeting new things in new places, and that's fine - acknowledge the new thing, sit and stare for 30 seconds, then go right back into the brisk and cheerful 'walk on' again cue, she'll remember the routine.

[katieB]

Kate, I try to use a similar approach myself. Once Milly didnt want to go forward I made her turn small circles and then gave her the option of going forward, she was just having none of it and walked backwards. This is where I start to panic, this was my last horse did, she would shift backwards and then rear vertically. I am getting better and although I know Milly wouldnt do this I still panic a little bit. I think this is where my problems lie, if I just had a bit more confidence I could probably get her past. I did try for about 10 mintues but I was visibly getting further away from where I wanted to be and we were both loosing our rag with each other.

[KateWooten]

yeah, I know that feeling for sure. I kind of left out the description of my 'day 1' with Rosie in that ideal description above. Day 1 was where I got on her without doing any groundwork, and rode her out form the house (paddocks were too soggy to rider there) and along the road. We got about ten yards before the backing rearing spinning started, and 40 minutes later I was about in tears and gave up in a big stress, put her into the roundpen alone for the afternoon and was never speaking to her again !

I had to spend the evening thinking it through to decide how to go forward without panicking - her or me !

The key is to establish the 'safe base' exercises before you leave home, I think. Practice them really good and positively where both of you feel safe. Stick to ones that are easy for you to do and insist on, and can be done in the confines of a narrow road - else next thing you know, she'll find you a real narrow place with a drop-off either side to get sticky at ! (Rosie did exactly that - she'd walk fine all the while I had a grassy verge either side, then get sticky on a bridge with a 10 ft drop each side - she wasn't real scared - I think she just knew I'd have trouble circling her right there !!).

Anyways, go do your circles for 20 minutes, and make them real happy ones. Do them with a cheery voice and a happy smile, but make them vigorous and energetic. Every time she does them well, give her a heap of praise and go for a happy trot round the arena.

Then after a few days set out on your hack again, but force yourself into a happy smile - I kid you not, sing your worst most silliest song - I choose the macarena - and set out there saying to her 'here we go... let's go get sticky and do some dancing...' Then as soon as you get to where she's even thinking about getting sticky, this time instead of feeliing 'Oh, no, here's where she statrs going backwards, I hope she doesn't' ... instead of waiting for something bad to happen, get really proactive about it. Think to yourself 'Hooray, here's that great sticky spot where I get to do all those lovely athletic circles that I've gotten so good at at home, let's see how accurate we can do them' ... and start doing them even before she actually gets sticky, do them as soon as you feel that sticky thought cross her mind. You'll feel it if you listen, but be careful not to tense up while you're listening for it. (that's where the silly song comes into it, it's to relax you and that way relax her too).

Do you see what I'm getting at ? You change your whole mindset from dreading the start of napping, to really looking forward to it. "Yes ! This is where I shine," you think, "this is where I get to really play"... It's all about setting yourself up for success. Practice your 'safe base' exercises so they're automatic and fun - should only take a session or two - the actual exercises you choose is up to you, but sounds like the little circles will work for you.

[katieB]

Yes I see, I would have never thought about doing them at home first, ive always used the circling as a way of saying "you can either go forward nicely or we do some hard work right here" just assuming its her with the problem :o although really I do know its more a problem in my head rather than hers. Thanks for the suggestion.

[martini55]

I think it depends on horse and rider. For me I always stay on board but that is simply because I feel safer and more in control than on the ground.

However, if your horse will happily be led past the problem area then I would much rather do this then have a argument resulting in pratting about for ages.

Better for horse and rider in my opinion as napping can knock some people's confidence. Some people say getting off is 'giving in' but I think that is just rubbish. As long as horse and rider are happy and get to where they want to go, whatever method suits them is good in my eyes.

[Bay Mare]

I was always told to stay on board no matter what. I've changed my opinion now, though.

As others have said it depends on the situation, on the horse, on you and the reasons why the horse won't go forwards.

If it's a fear thing then it can be helpful to get off and lead the horse through, it's what you would do with a nanny horse, sometimes they need someone that they trust and respect to show them that it's ok and that the stream or log is not going to eat them :)

There are other situations when you would stay on board so that they don't learn that to stop is to get you off their backs.

You can also circle or even back up to where you want to go so that they still go where you want them to go but you make it harder for them as long as they resist.

It's one of those situations where you need to make the best choice for you at the time. If you have the same problem in future it may be worth going with another horse and letting them take the lead. It depends, though, on why she's not going forwards.

[KateWooten]

I agree. I have no qualms about getting off. I got off a couple of months ago, because my boy was at a stage where he felt more confident about approaching a scary object while I was there next to him. Now, he can get the same reassurance while I'm on his back, if I reach forward and rub him up by his ears to remind him I'm still there for him. Similarly with my mare, out in a new area last week, (she's very green - less than 20 hours in total riding time) she could hear windchimes, but not see them, and she needed me down on the ground with her.

On the other hand, when my mare was quite obviously 'napping' then I chose to stay on her, and put her to work.

It's a fine line of reading the horse. Napping and being scared are really terms for different degrees of the same thing. When a horse naps, there is an underlying confidence issue. If they were happy and confident, they wouldn't be trying to seek out scary objects and excuses to not go forward. So is the horse 'putting it on' or genuinely scared, or just lazy ? Either way, I guess the approach is the same. Put them to work if you can and if it's safe to do so, get off if it's getting worse, and always get off before getting hurt.

John Lyons has a neat saying that helps me a lot 'Ride where you can, not where you can't' - don't feel guilty about not going and addressing that scary or dangerous thing directly (whatever it might be). You need to deal with it, sure, and not avoid the issue, but sometimes working around it, on other things is the way to approach it, not just try to 'ride through the problem'.

[Tim]

After arguing with Milly last night about going up a path she didnt want to, I was thinking about how to deal with these kinds of situations in the future. Ive heard people say that its best not to dismount and lead from the floor if you can help it.

You should never get off. The only time you should dismount is if you or the horse has suffered an injury, or danger is imminent. Leading the horse from the ground will not get you any advantage whatsoever. Reading through your post, it sounds like classic napping, not wanting to go the way you have asked for, wanting to force you to carry on in the manner the horse wants. Even if the horse is having a genuine problem getting past something scary, don't dismount, in these cases, gentle and persuasive encouragement will get the result that will work next time round. Yes, leading the horse will get you out of trouble then too, but the horse will expect it next time and you can't afford to be on and off the horse every five minutes. An old horse trainer told me that if you can lead a horse through something, then you can do the same thing from his back. A horse may well get a stroppy one on him if he doesn't want to go this way or that, you have to sit it out and stay on and keep turning him round till he goes where you ask, and beleive me, I know it can take a long time sometimes to get the result. I would only dismount if I could see that the horse was in imminent danger, or if I could see that any further actions by the horse to evade a request might put him in danger. Otherwise the horse goes where he is asked to go, like it or not.

[Yann]

I always get off and lead if the horse is too worried to ride past or over something. You're taking charge of the situation from their point of view, and you have better control of their movement.

I've always found it effective with a planted horse too, rather than getting into a big argument or having to wait them out if it's a discussion about where you're going and it's not safe or convenient. No problems long term from it either, quite the opposite.

[Pink's lady]

I'm a stayer on mostly, but I do get off if the horse is genuinally frightened - Brodie is rarely truely frightned, but when he is, he's much more confident following me when I'm on the ground. Than I walk past if a few time then get on again and ride past it. And next time he'll go past no bother.

But of they're just being stupid and stubborn, I stay on. If need be I'll sit and wait them out. They can stand as long as they like, but they MUST be looking in the correct direction and thinking about it - no looking at the pretty clouds whilst they think of their dinner;) As soon as they loose concentration I ask them to go forwards again, or tickle with the whip to get their attention. Brodie very quickly leant that he had to go anyways. And it's much less stressful than getting into a full blow fight.

[Lucy J]

i usually try and stay on, it depends.

Very rarely my mare has a hormonal day when she just gets to a certain point in a hack and says "no, not today thanks" she has only done it once in the last 12 months, but she got hysterical and wasn't listening, reared, bucked and nearly backed herself into a ditch. i didn't get off on this occassion though (although was hanging round her neck at one point!) as I figured she was in such a state I wouldn't be able to hold her if she decided to bugger off. however i did decide it was a day to make her walk only a few steps forward then go home and school instead, so at least i asked her to turn round. to be fair, she had only just moved to the yard and was obviously insecure being asked to go on a long hack - we took a turn that headed far away from the yard.

on another note, i've been teaching her to cross the river on the farm, she was scared, i was happy to get off and splash around getting soaking feet till she decided i hadn't been swept away so it must be safe, i then mounted again while in the river and plodded around for a while.

i think it depends on their mood and if you are getting off to give up as your nerves aren't up to battling or you have no time, or whether you are getting off to reassure them.

[racing chick]

If a horse aint willing to go forward or past something then insted of waiting for ages just put your reins in one hand and give it a good hit with the stick and drive it forward with your hands and legs, no good ****ing around the rider should be showing the horse whos boss...if we can do it to our big tb racehorses that are inwork getting ready for racing then you should be able to do it to a pony

[BecknSkye]

I usually stay on, unless it is a young horse with a genuine reason to be afraid, like crossing the wooden bridges over the streams on our river-flats, since if they freak out while they're on the bridge and slip or something, the rider can become unbalanced which scares them more, then they'll buck and drop you on the floor. It adds up to a negative experience that a baby doesn't need. With my own horse, I never get off, because then it becomes an excuse to be a big baby and he'd rather let me go by the scary thing first instead of being brave and walking on his own legs.
Most horses, I just keep insisting until they agree with me... I'm a pushy old bag! LOL:rolleyes:

[Yann]

no good ****ing around the rider should be showing the horse whos boss...

If the horse is genuinely worried by something how is inflicting pain going to build its confidence, or its trust in you for that matter?

he'd rather let me go by the scary thing first

Of course he would, he's a horse. If you reduce the stress for him in that situation and take the opportunity to show him there's nothing to worry about then next time he might not be as worried about it.

[Lucy J]

If a horse aint willing to go forward or past something then insted of waiting for ages just put your reins in one hand and give it a good hit with the stick and drive it forward with your hands and legs, no good ****ing around the rider should be showing the horse whos boss...if we can do it to our big tb racehorses that are inwork getting ready for racing then you should be able to do it to a pony

racing chick, I beg to differ (and this attitude makes me realise why all the ex racehorses I have dealt with have been so frightened and insecure) if you were to do that to my mare when she was genuinely frightened she would rear up, lose the plot and have none of it (i've tried that approach) and it would only confirm to her that she is right to be scared. on the other hand if you give her time to assess the situation and reassure her by using some trust and some talking (we are talking about 10seconds, not 10 minutes) then there is no need to "show her who is boss" its about understanding why the horse is reacting as it is and how you should react to that situation. Yes i know racehorses are a business and worth a lot of money and not to be mollicoddled, but you will NEVER get the best out an animal by resorting to the "i know better than you" and smacking approach. if i did it to my child I would be arrested!

i've worked in racing yards and also been to a training centre which treated the horses abominably. its that kind of attitude that ruins so many horses.

its all about mutual trust and respect. fully fit TB or 10hh shetland. please don't smack a horse when it is scared. reassure it instead. then next time you will probably find the horse is less likely to react to a new scary thing as it will trust you, not be afraid of being smacked. remember the use of the whip is derived from the natural instinct of a horse to move forwards because it thinks a predator is pouncing on it (Desmond Morris, 'Horsewatching') so in effect you are saying to the horse, if you won't go past this scary thing something worse is going to happen, so make your choice. hardly the bases of a long lasting fruitful relationship.

sorry for the long post, but i feel strongly about this. i have been on both sides of the fence. when i was younger i did what i told without questioning it. our job is not to make horses fearful of us.

by the way, there are times that horses are just taking the mick and do need a smack, so don't think I am a softie, but you have to learn when to discipline and when to reassure. eg, pony scared of trailer, pony beaten up and forced it - job done. Next time pony sees trailer behaviour worse. Owner spends 2hours teaching the pony to load without being scared. result - a pony that will load perfectly every time.

[katieB]

If a horse aint willing to go forward or past something then insted of waiting for ages just put your reins in one hand and give it a good hit with the stick and drive it forward with your hands and legs, no good ****ing around the rider should be showing the horse whos boss...if we can do it to our big tb racehorses that are inwork getting ready for racing then you should be able to do it to a pony

For starters she's not a pony, she's probably as big as your racehorses. And secondly by me beating her with a stick, how will that give her any confidence in me the next time we face a problem?

[Bertie]

Katie it sounds like you've been given some sound advice and from what I've read there is a pretty mixed balance between getter offers and stayer oners! I know that some people say that you should NEVER get off but I think it depends entirely upon each individual situation, rider and horse.

I can understand your concerns, apprehensions and worries especially re the problems you've encountered in the past with Ellie so I think that you did the right thing in eventually giving up and going home, maybe you could try again tonight and try a different approach of getting off or is there someone you could go out with who could show her whatever it is that making her scared that it's not a horse eating monster!! That way you'll be able to determine whether it's napping or her being geniunely scared.

Good luck with it all :)

[katieB]

Thanks for the advice H, but this is a fairly old thread that has reappeared from somewhere. I remember having that trouble with Milly a few times but luckily it was something that never continued. You are totally right about Ellie though, looking back now, I realise it was down to my lack of confidence that I had this problem, I feel 100% better than I did then and we dont have any problems now :)

[joey_olop]

Mine is exactly the same he will have a hissy fit at anything, especially if we are out on our own. If Im on the road and I see something that will make him spook I will get off, our roads are dangerous enough as it is. Wouldnt like to think what would happen if I tried to ride him past it.

If I was on a bridleway tho I would keep on going until he did walk past without a fuss, that way you have nobody around you.

[Bertie]

Good I'm glad your all sorted :)

[Dummer&Drummer]

The alternative would have been to dismount as soon as she decided to argue and quietly lead her up the path and get on a bit further up.

katieB ive not read your replies but picked up on the above you wrote - the trick is that IF you HAVE to get off is to do it BEFORE she decides to argue, eg if you see something well ahead you are doubtfull over

i believe that this is supposed to be quite important and ensures she does not learn lessons best not learnt, i think this means that you are still the one making the decisions (etc) and she is not dictating to you x

hope this helps a little and sure someone may have covered this point in their replies x

[racing chick]

firstly lucy j, yes racehorses are very valuable no doubt more then what your ponies or horses are worth, so y would we miss treat them have u worked with them over here in new zealand, have u had any given to you that are from new zealand....no no no no i bet not so ill put you straight we dont miss treat our horses over here they r all different individuals some quiet and some crazy that have to be straighten out or they will never reach there true protential on the track, we r experience and qualified ppl so we no *** we r doing maybe u should take up a job of breaking them in and riding the silly ones bets on me that your be jumping of them all the time and lastly i have been to pony club i have 2 horses of mine own both purebred arab's i must include which i show so i do think i no what im saying and i think its fair to say that u better stay on your side of the fence you riders over here would be no good.

[Pink's lady]

Firstly racing chick, you may have valuable horses but you sure as hell can't spell. Text speak isn't allowed on this board and to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what your on about.

And, like Lucy J said, your attitude to the horses is the reason I dislike racing. You see them as vaulable money makers - something you have to dominate and bully, that are no use or interest to you once they're not worth much anymore.

They may have swanky stables with nice matching numnahs, poncy horse boxes and loads of rossettes on your wall but what you know about horse behaviour could quite easily fit on the back of a postage stamp :rolleyes:

Horses are not winning machinces although people like you treat them as thus. For the largest percentage of the horse owning population horses are for pleasure and beating your horse into doing what you want doesn't appeal to many people. Yes, sometimes a smack is the right thing to do, but not when a horse is frightened. All you do is frighten them further and make them loose all trust they have in you. Then the only relationship you have with your horse is to bully it into doing what you want, or have it so scared of the consequences of disobeying that it's super obediant:(

If you think that is an acceptable way to treat your horses I pity them:(

[BecknSkye]

Of course he would, he's a horse. If you reduce the stress for him in that situation and take the opportunity to show him there's nothing to worry about then next time he might not be as worried about it.
Yes, but Skye doesn't get un-worried, he seems to stuck on high-alert in all situations at all times, so if you took him seriously every time he said he was scared, you'd be up and down like stripper's knickers!

[Lucy J]

racing chick, if you bothered to read my reply you will see that I have worked in racing yards, I have trained ex-racehorses (more often than not the ones messed up and about to be put down due to behavioural issues) i have also backed horses myself, and quite frankly the money doesn't come into it - a racehorse may cost 1million as a yearling, but by the time they have been raced into the ground and abused they are worth nothing. it is these sorry horses I like to work with. if you read carefully you will also see that 99% of the time all I do is stay on the horse and let them look at whatever is bothering them rather than beat them. I've taken on confirmed rearers which I have sorted, I've been bucked off, trodden on - you name it. i'll also bet backing a native pony who has been running wild for 7 years which I have also done is a fair bit more challenging than a stud bred yearling TB who has been with people all their life.

i have worked in a yard where yearling arabs and TBs are backed for racing - none of them were abused or forced and they went on to be successful racers - this is how it should be done. in fact this was where my current horse was backed.

horses are horses, america, UK, New Zealand. It makes no difference. I am not saying you don't know what you are saying - as like I said your way of doing things will provoke a response and I am sure that is how you have been taught. I'm simply asking you to open your mind to a different way of thinking. have a read at some equine phsychology books. if you still decide your way is best then that is fine, but it is not ideal to be so closed minded in any environment.

[Lucy J]

if skye is a horse on high alert all the time then have you looked at diet? sometimes this behaviour can indicate a magnesium deficiency. alternatively you will just have to ride through it. on days when my mare is like this every time she stops or spooks she gets pulled round in a tight circle and asked to walk on again (sometimes this could be 5 tight circles) if she is purely taking the mick then she will also get a tap on the shoulder to make her listen.

[Trewsers]

Horses are not winning machinces although people like you treat them as thus. For the largest percentage of the horse owning population horses are for pleasure and beating your horse into doing what you want doesn't appeal to many people.
(


Too true!:(

[Yann]

Yes, but Skye doesn't get un-worried, he seems to stuck on high-alert in all situations at all times, so if you took him seriously every time he said he was scared, you'd be up and down like stripper's knickers!

The thing you have to bear in mind is that he's taking it seriously even if you're not :) I know some horses are just like that but it's often the case that an adjustment of routine, diet, supplementation or resolving a physical issue can make a big difference to this. Cutting out cereals and mollased feed and additional magnesium supplementation would be my first port of call.

[racing chick]

im not going to let up on you ppl saying i dont know what im talking about coz i do no what im saying....a trainer so you say you were? what did you use to train ponies and minis lol, *** do they train arabs to be like racehorses? true where abouts funny neva see it here....i think you need to look at what your saying maybe you should see how they treat horses in hong kong and singapore give you something else to think you know what your talking bout. whips were invented as a artificial aid nothing wrong with giving your horse a hit with it when it aint doing what your asking it to do

[pirouette]

mhm... ha ha i had that once, like a few months ago... i was working crowe n then decided to take him for a short hack up this hill and along the golf course but he got annoyed at the wind and wanted to go home so he tried to run off up the hill and sadly i had a beginner rider behind me who decided to follow me... crowe acted up a bit n since he hates other horses tried to back up into the beginner's horse... that horse then ran away back to the stable with the beginner one.. didnt really care too much about him then cause i was in trouble myself.. so after crowe saw that he could run back home he decided to act up more and pretended to spook at weird things.. after a while or kicking out and twirling around he got ****ed and actually did see something scary .. no clue what it was but he frooze for a minute and then reared... i decided that there was no way i could stay on him on top of a hill with him acting up so i dismounted him and tried to lead him back home but he only got more scared and kept staring at this so called monster and then gallopped off home... luckily nothing happened to him but he was stupid... it was very windy that day though but still he isnt a horse that gets scared of things easily... anyways i dismounted because there were rocks on the floor and i didnt want to land in them etc...

love tanja

[racing chick]

LUCYJ i think you should have a study day on tbs,, i dont no what you mean when you say you have backed many horses and theres no money in it you must be in the wrong crowd cos we break (or backed how ever you like it said) alot in to be sold on and there is alot of money in it and also we dont beat any horses...PINK LADY what do you think tbs are breed and born for???? nice quiet sunday walks YEAH RIGHT they are born and breed for a reason have been FOR many many many many years!!

[Yann]

Racing chick, I think you need to read people's replies properly before answering them.

[racing chick]

gee im sorry guess it must be just us new zealanders i never have understood you ppl from where ever your from

[Peanut]

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is losing the plot? :confused:

[teabiscuit]

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is losing the plot? :confused:
no you're not, i got very confused by some replies, not sure what's going on now :confused:

[Yann]

None of us know what we're on about apart from Racing Chick ;)

[teabiscuit]

None of us know what we're on about apart from Racing Chick ;)
:D :D

[Lucy J]

gee, this is gettng way off topic and i'm not going to even say what i think on this thread and ruin my good reputation!! except...(i'm sorry chaps, I can't help it) i didn't say there wasn't any money in it! I meant the amount of money was irrelevant to the horses. they don't know if they are worth $1 or $1000000. i enjoy working (in my spare time) with these poor TBs who have been used as money making machines and thrown on the scrap heap - i actually work in IT Security, my job is not to make money from racehorses but my hobby is to pick up the pieces from the people who have tried.

i studied at a racing training yard for months and worked at a few for longer.

i know how some of the racehorses are treated in singapore and hong kong. I've seen pictures of them living at the track, suffering and of the weekly cull, but I fail to see the relevance of that to this thread.

racing chick, i'mnot trying to be difficult, just trying to get across a different point of view to yours. :rolleyes:

i have learned so much from this forum over the last few years, i have learned things i would never have thought to even think of. it is here for people to learn about different ideas and how to have the best relationship with their horses. it is not necessary to agree all the time, people have their own ideas, but there is no harm in sharing - even when there is not necessarily a right or wrong answer.

off my soap box now, sorry.

[teabiscuit]

i have learned so much from this forum over the last few years, i have learned things i would never have thought to even think of. it is here for people to learn about different ideas and how to have the best relationship with their horses.
yep i agree, well said Lucy