Perlino?

[LCQH]

What exactly is Perlino? What are it's characteristics? Is it considered 'cream'? Is it related to Cremello at all?

[chev]

Perlino is a bay horse with two cream deilutes alleles.

It is often mistaken for cremello because apart from sometimes slightly more ornagey points, the two colours are almost indistinguishable; blue eyes, pink skin, pale cream coat.

Another almost identical colour is smoky black; two cream alleles on a black base.

Chestnut + 1 cream allele = palomino (dilute red body colour & mane and tail)
Bay + 1 cream allele = buckskin (dilute red body colour & black points)
Black + 1 cream allele = smoky black (usually just look like slightly faded black, or give no visible clue at all)

Chestnut + 2 cream alleles = cremello (pale cream coat, pink skin, blue eyes)
Bay + 2 cream alleles = perlino (pale cream coat, slightly darker cream points, pink skin, blue eyes)
Black + 2 cream alleles = smoky black (pale cream coat, pink skin, blue eyes - slightly smokier shade of cream usually)

[LCQH]

Thanks.

One more question: Is there a certain gene for Dun?

[chev]

Oh no! A dun question! :D

Dun may or may not be a simple dominant gene. It's most likely that yes, there is one simple dominant dun gene (it can be seen at work in Highlands, Fjords, Shetlands, Iceys and so on) which causes a flat diluted coat, with both red and black pigment diluted to some extent; darker points (legs, mane and tail are less diluted - often teh face is too); dorsal stripes sometimes with barbs and shoulder barring; leg barring or zebra stripes (both dorsal and zebra stripes are in teh base coat colour, undiluted); frosting in the mane, tail and ears (ear tips are often pale, and the outside of mane and tail the same) and frosting at the top of the tail. But not all of these markings appear on all dun horses; some have nothing more than dilute colour and striping.

Even more confusing, other genes (in particular cream) can produce strikingly similar results, and primitive markings (including some very convincing dorsal stripes and leg barring) do crop up on non-duns too.

And if that's not made your brain ache yet, dun also seems to be atavistic; in other words, dun dilution and markings develop in horses left to breed wild with no intervention over several generations.

So I guess yes, there is a dun gene; but there are also several genes that produce similar effects, and some dun factor markings may well be associated with a separate gene as well.

Dun Central Station (http://duncentralstation.com/) is a fantastic site for anyone who wants to know more about duns, even though it talks mainly about dun in Morgans. Some really good explanations and pictures here. :)

[LCQH]

So there's no genetic test for dun like they have for gray, bay, etc.?

Also, is it possible for a dun to show NO dun factors? I saw this horse who I could've sworn was a blue roan but the owners claimed it was a grulla. The dam they claimed was a red dun (looked chestnut to me) and I don't know the stud color.

It was this color: http://www.powderriverhorses.com/Ambrosia%202004%2002.jpg Isn't that blue roan?

Thanks for answering the other questions. : )

[IrisSilverMoon]

grulla is a color,and that certainly looks like a grulla to me.

not sure what makes it up though, but its definately in the dun family.

red duns can be confusing andlook sort of chestnut, but they will have different markings (a dorsal stripe for instance)

[chev]

No, it's not possible for a dun to show no dun factors at all. At the very least it will have a true dorsal stripe and dilute colour.

I'm not sure about that horse. He doesn't look that typical of grulla to me; grullas often have undiluted heads, manes, tails and legs but his are very very dark, and his body looks more like it's diluted by the addition of white hair, rather than by the black pigment being diluted. He does seem to have frosting at the top of his tail; which is a dun characteristic. From that picture he could be either a blue roan, or an unusual grulla.

Grulla is black with dun - in the UK it's sometimes called mouse dun. Red dun is chestnut with dun; some red duns do look just like washed out chestnuts. They will always have dun factor markings though - if this horse doesn't have a clear black dorsal stripe (there's no evidence of shoulder stripes, leg barring or any other dun markings in the pic - but maybe they're hidden) then he is not dun. Same with his dam; if she is red dun, she'll have a lighter body with darker legs and head, and a clear, red dorsal stripe at the very least.

No test for dun yet... (or grey. They know where the grey gene is located but can't test for it yet)