LEADING **New Horses**....

[iluvhorses28]

We are currently working on leading our new horses, due to my 4 yo Paint being a bit antsy and spooky once lead. She always likes being led right next to her big sis (9 yo)....! She will actually trot over to her big sis, just to be beside her.... and is it quite a spectacle to see this ...and I am feeling awfully frustrated.

Has anyone got any good 'leading' training advice?? My young one seems to have a problem, wanting to go ahead of MY pace as I walk her out... I don't know if this is necessarily her, as she used to lead very well for her old owners, so maybe it is also caused of me being new to her.... but I would appreciate any good advice from anyone :o I am so jealous of everyone's well behaved horses as they lead them about the barn.... :(
My older one does well, but is distracted by the rumbunctious younger one once she acts up...and it is quite hard to get a grasp of one unruly horse, but two is even worse when you are only 5'1"!

[Cheeky]

Heya!

Hey, dont worry - 5"1 is a great size .. you can still get full respect!

Ok .. with leading, take your younge one out and lead her around a bit (enclosed areas are great lol). If she tries to rush you, without question, back her up. Bet you she wasn't expecting that. Backing her up will tell her that she MUST be intune with you, and also tells her that she isn't going to get anywhere in a rush. You can also make her stand if she rushes.

When your ready, have someone else lead your older horse out, and follow her. If your younge one tries to catch up, make her back up, and then stand for as long as you want. If she starts to move or 'dance', time to back up, and you can also (I disagree with this method though..) give a tug on the lead to jerk their head. Like I said, I dont like this method, and I know it works and a lot of people favour it, but I dont. But its a personal thing.

Also, dont forget to take her out into an arena or somewhere, and spend time with her. Let her know that being with you is great, comforting and safe. Take her out for a graze, go into the arena and do some ground work .. what ever, make it fun and entertaining :)

As she gets better, you can start having both in the arena, and having you leading the young one past the older horse, lunging (if she lunges) while the older horse does work on the other side .. etc.

It's quite hard to explain over the net .. but I hope that helped in some way.

[iluvhorses28]

Also, dont forget to take her out into an arena or somewhere, and spend time with her. Let her know that being with you is great, comforting and safe. Take her out for a graze, go into the arena and do some ground work .. what ever, make it fun and entertaining :)



Oh...boy!:o That may proove to be easier said than done...
I have never been fearful of leading or working with horses, but after the run off 4 days ago (when we officially bought them) as we were heading towards the turnout...I am now hesitant on doing it alone. RI has helped me the past 2 days...and they did great...I know I am being a little coward about it, but I am just fearing her trying to run off again....

Worst part is I am no good an example to my daughter who was leading our young one whem she got away from her. She is now also a bit hesitant to lead her own horse alone...

I don't know if this is normal or not as I have never experienced it with my other mare, but this sis the very first time I am feeling so uncertain ! If that makes any sense??:rolleyes:

[Megpeg]

Being 5ft1" is virtually irrelevant.
To me, the term "over-horsed" refers to a situation where the horse requires firmer handling/riding than it's handler/rider can give.
It's a matter of experience and confidence - not size.
I know tiny little ladies who succesfully handle and ride horses that their 6ft tall, 14 stone husbands can't cope with.
Having the attitude that your height makes that much difference won't help your situation.
Even in the horse world, height isn't a major issue - my 12.2hh welsh is the boss of the field (the others range from 15.1hh - 17.3hh AND he's the latest addition to the herd).

Firstly, make sure she's actually sticking with big sis because she feels insecure.
Watch her body language and take note.
It sounds very much like that's the case, but other possibilities include. . . her being confused by what you're asking,
taking the mickey,
being in pain (very unlikely in this case)
and following her sis out of habit.

It's obviously more difficult to cure a problem when you don't know the cause.
Ask someone else to lead her JUST IN CASE your instructions are confusing her (I doubt it - but it's worth a shot :) ).

Otherwise.. .

- Join-up (or other similar techniques) sound like a viable option here. If you're not one for these types of therapies (they're not for everyone), I'd suggest spending lots of time with them separately (grooming them and doing other such things which help to build a relationship).
- Pressure halters are also helpful with matters like this one. They require some getting used to using, but once you're comfortable with them they're excellent.
- Try bribing her away from her sister with whatever she likes.
You don't want to get her into a habit of expecting titbits, but for short periods of time (and fed from a bucket rather than by hand) they're valuable for handling training.
- Assert your dominance (that sounds so harsh - I apologise), get her used to being touched by you everywhere.
Teach her commands (even "tricks" if you like). These will ensure you're getting her to listen to (and obey) your voice as an instruction (and make it fun!).
- Try leading her with another horse (she won't be as happy, but it might well ease her insecurity a bit whilst weaning her away from her sister). Change the horse frequently to stop her forming another overly strong attachment.
- Keep her mind busy whilst leading. See if (whilst alongside sister) you can circle her and serpintine her across the path. Don't confuse her and don't do it enough to make her think zig-zagging about is normal, but it'll be easier to zigzag her than get her to halt and watch her sister walk off.
- Try dealing with her on her own in an enclosed space. Leading her round the school with sister out of sight for example (or even with her nearby to start with - though she may just constantly try to run to her).
- I'm not a fan of separating them coldly (it can result in an insecure, nervous horse if not handled extremely carefully). But it's an option (though I must stress- not one I'd advise and not one I'd do myself!).

Best of luck

EDIT - just read your second post.
Your nerves are perfectly understandable. But the fact shes ok with your RI suggests your confidence isn't helping matters. Nip this in the bud before she takes advantage of your diminishing nerves (and turns it into bad behaviour).
Enlist the help of your RI (assisting you) for a while. Once she's in the habit of leaving big sis it'll be much easier for you to continue her training.
I'm sure it'll work outfine for you. But do the sensible thing and don't tackle this alone unless you can do so safely.

[iluvhorses28]

EDIT - just read your second post.
Your nerves are perfectly understandable. But the fact shes ok with your RI suggests your confidence isn't helping matters. Nip this in the bud before she takes advantage of your diminishing nerves (and turns it into bad behaviour).
Enlist the help of your RI (assisting you) for a while. Once she's in the habit of leaving big sis it'll be much easier for you to continue her training.
I'm sure it'll work outfine for you. But do the sensible thing and don't tackle this alone unless you can do so safely.

Thanks MEGPEG!

Yes, i know, my confidence is only making matters worse...and it's a good thing that my RI is willing to help the new horse-new owner transition a bit easier. I sure could not have done this alone :p

And I agree, i do need to be assertive enough...and this is MY issue in an entirely seperate avenue! And I understand this is THE TIME for it more than ever!

I am glad to get great advice from you guys here at NR and people at the barn who had similar experiences...sometimes, you think you are doing the right thing,and not noticing others that need work on to help the issue altogether, such as in this case..MY CONFIDENCE.

Main issue with my young one is rushing when lead. Rushing to catch up to big sis, or rushing period! It will take some time, and I am hoping that the more time we spend together, the better it will all be.

Thanks! Keep you posted! Here they are by the way Fancy with the white face (little bugger!) and Savannah...:D
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c185/pymics/th_Vannah-Fancy.jpg (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c185/pymics/Vannah-Fancy.jpg) * This was taken by previous owners a year ago....Fancy the little bugger is now 4 yo and Savannah is 9...she is now a slight bit taller than big sis, but big sis is BULKIER...so Quarter Horse like!

[Megpeg]

Oh they're gorgeous!
I must confess I have a bit of a fetish for paint horses anyway.

It must be very frustrating for you, but it's not as if you're alone.
There's no reason this won't all work out brilliantly. :) It's often very beneficial to have others handle your horses even if you're not having problems - helps them get used to other people.
I've got one at the minute who'd been with one lady for the past 9 years and consequently all the mistakes she's made with him have been left uncorrected for that time (she was a self-confessed confident but very novice rider). It's also taken me a long time to get him comfortable in my company (he saw almost no one else (and had no other handlers) in his previous home).
He's not badly behaved, but his discomfort with strangers (so basically everyone) is very noticable. As such, he's almost harder to work with than my more excitable (but confident) horses.
So there's every reason to view your RI's involvement as a positive! And I really do empathise with your struggle to build a bond with her (greater than the one she has with Savannah). It's a long, drawn out process - but I'm sure you'll get there in the end. :)

xxx

[iluvhorses28]

Thanks...I am HOPING that it will all come together soon....RI & her daughter has been working on them seperately and trying their hardest to get them used to being apart. Savannah doesn't seem to mind too much but Fancy is should I say "HISTERICAL" when seperated?:o

And that in itself makes me a bit scared leading her alone. But I dont always have my RI there as this is a different barn (nextdoor to RI's) so...thinking of turning them out feels like walking around a hissing snake so to speak.

I dont quite know if I am having the NEW OWNER blues...but I am feeling tremendously panicked and overwhelmed....WILL I BE ABLE TO WORK THIS OUT? WILL IT BE BETTER?...I mean I have a looong list of questions that roam about my head.

And LEADING is my main issue.... RI told me that the horses are great, but the previous owner did let go A LOT of bad habits that needs to be addressed IMMEDIATELY. I wish that I saw this before, but I suppose falling in love with the horses came in the picture first.:o

[Tootsie4U]

Carry a dressage whip. If she walks past you, flip the whip out in front of her chest as a warning. If she doesn't respond, tap her with it against her chest. If she still doesnt respond, ask her to back up. Use the whip to aid you in your request. It'll also give her a visual to help her gauge where she's supposed to be.

Also, she really needs to leave her sis in order for you to get her to focus on you. Right now, she takes her lead (ie. direction) from her sister, not you. You need to become her big sister so she starts looking to you, not to other horses. It'll really help your bond. It'll be tough going at first, but she'll soon put it all together. Dont give up :)

[iluvhorses28]

This is where I am confused...My Ri says to lead them together for now....and yet I think it is equally important to train just her....w/o big sis.... and yet she could easily be distracted as well not having big sis as I lead her out.... AAARGH!:eek:

Dont really know how to go about it....
Right now they are being worked on, so I have not turned them out just by myself alone, mostly RI or other people are there to assist...I am quite frightened that I will HAVE TO start doing it alone eventually.... and I dont know if I will do it correctly.... I mean it's a simple walk from their stall to a grassy enclosed pasture which is no more than 4 minutes away at a slow walk, but it is a scary thought to struggle with 2 horses on the way to turnout should the y.o. give me 'rushing' issues again....

[Megpeg]

Tootsie4u's idea of carrying a dressage whip to flick at her was good advice.
BUT, I think in this situation you risk either. . .
- using it in a pannicky way (so it has no effect at all, or just makes her feel threatened)
- or it not be any use to you (ie, the guidance it gives will be too subtle - and I certainly wouldn't recommend using a whip to "chase" her away from her sister (and it sounds like this is the only thing a whip would be good for at this stage).

Right, enough moping.
Every new owner goes through this.
Stop beating yourself up over it. Horses are daunting animals for anyone (and it's much worse when you've not known them for long).

WILL I BE ABLE TO WORK THIS OUT? WILL IT BE BETTER?...
Yes and yes.
Of course you will. I think this leading lark has (understandably) dented your confidence a bit and now you're going way over board and are questioning everything.
You've got a young horse, you've had afew bad days, that's all.
There isn't a rider out there who doesn't think negatively some days. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN! That's why you have her. A year from now you'll look back at this time and make jokes about it.
Yes, there's a time when you have to say "enoughs enough." But I doubt this is it.
Answer me this. . .
- what happens if you put them in separate stables?
- what EXACTLY happens if you leave FAncy in a stable and lead Savannah out (and vice-versa)?
- Does she leave Sav alone when they're in the field?
- How's her behaviour in general?
- Does she get on with any other horses?
- What EXACTLY CAN you do with her? How far away can you get her from Sav? What happens if another horse is present as well?
- Who can you enlist the help of (even those with little experience)?
- What EXACTLY are you worried about? Getting hurt? Her running off? The long term effects?

I don't understand what your RI's thinking (I'm sure she has a plan), perhaps she thinks it's easier to train her WITH her sister and then plans to separate them when Fancy is better trained. Makes sense and it sounds very sensible.
I'd have a word and find out specifically what's going on (without seeing her it's hard to say). You don't want to contradict her training. Once you understand RI's plans you'll be in a better position to work with her.

Time to be positive now Ilovehorses. :)

[prettybluepony]

is she trained to bridle? If you find you cant control her without her sis nearby, you could try using a simple snaffle bridle, to gain her attention, and bring her out of "O MY GOD, THERE IS NO ONE HERE TO PROTECT ME!" mode, and allow you calm her, and teach her, that while you are there nothing will hurt her. Try join up(never done it myself though…) groom her, lead her in sight of her sis, round for two circles, then bring her back to her. Each day do slightly, everso slightly bigger circles. Also try having a helper lead her sis around, in a circle, with you on the outside, doing an oval. So at every "top" or "bottom" of your circle your leading her just a little away from her, and gradually make your oval bigger, with the sises the same size, until you can walk round a field or a school confidently together.

For your confidence, maybe have two lead ropes on her, with one longer rope, and someone can walk a short distance behind you, without interfering, until she tries to run away, when they can back up your signals. :) just smile and be happy, and make sure everything goes at your pace, and when you want it to, not when she does. If she starts hurring, even just a little, even in the direction you want to go in, turn her round, and start again. Even though she is stronger then you, when she starts going, bend her, anything, just make her bend her neck, even do schooling excersises to practise this, with help. Eventually you will be able to give a slight signal and she will yield, not only is she listening, and obeying you, but when they are straight and start to panic, their instint is go, go, go. When they bend they think a bit more.

[iluvhorses28]

Answer me this. . .
- what happens if you put them in separate stables?
- what EXACTLY happens if you leave FAncy in a stable and lead Savannah out (and vice-versa)?
- Does she leave Sav alone when they're in the field?
- How's her behaviour in general?
- Does she get on with any other horses?
- What EXACTLY CAN you do with her? How far away can you get her from Sav? What happens if another horse is present as well?
- Who can you enlist the help of (even those with little experience)?
- What EXACTLY are you worried about? Getting hurt? Her running off? The long term effects?

Time to be positive now Ilovehorses. :)

1. CANT PUT IN SEPERATE STABLES AS BARN IS FULL...NO CHOICE BUT THE ONES THEY ARE IN WHICH IS NEXT TO EA. OTHER:(

2. HAVE ONLY LEAD THEM OUT THAT ONE TIME FANCY RAN OFF...ONLY OTHER TIME OUT WAS GROOMING TIME WHEN WE GROOMED THEM ONE AT A TIME TO SEE THEIR REACTION...THEY WERE FINE...BUT SAV WAS IN NEAR SIGHT FANCY....
:rolleyes: **oTHER TIME LED OUT WAS LAST SAT. W/ RI ON HAND TO ASSIST...FANCY WAS TOO CONCERNED WITH NEW SURROUNDINGS OVER AT MY RI'S BARN THAT SHE DID NOT RUN OFF...TOO BUSY LOOKING ABOUT.

3.THAT SAT. WE TURNED THEM OUT W/ RI'S HERD OF ABOUT OTHER HORSES...USUAL HAPPENED..KICKING,BUCKING...RUNNING...SETLED AFTER 15-20 MINUTES....BUT GENERALLY SHE STAYED VERY CLOSE TO SAVANNAH, UP UNTIL RI WORKED SAV OUT ON A LEAD AND LEFT FANCY IN W/ THE HERD...SHE NEIGHED AND WHINNIED UP A STORM FOLLOWING WHERE BIG SIS WS HEADING OFF TOO... PAINFUL SIGHT!:(

4.FOR NOW...PONYING HER IS ABOUT ALL THAT CAN BE DONE....WHICH AMAZES ME AS SHE LEADS EXTREMELY WELL WITH PAST OWNER (ANOTHER REASON WHY I FEEL SO BADLY ABOUT MYSELF)

5. FANCY IS A TYPICAL 4 YO..NOTHING EXTREMELY DIFFERENT, CAN BE A BIT RUMBUNCTIOUS WHEN TURNED OUT...A BIT DIFFICULT...RI WORKED HER ON A LEAD AND WHEN SHE GOT FRUSTRATED DID A REARING NUMBER W/C RI DEFINTIELY STOPPED DEAD ON!
SHE IS MORE ASSERTIVE THAN I AM...THUS, I AM NO INSTRUCTOR! :D

6.MONDAY, OUR BARN MANAGER IS GOING TO PUT HER IN A 2 WEEK TRAINING TO GET HER SADDLED UP AND GOING...AFTER WHICH RI IS GOING TO CONTINUE ON TO FINE TUNE HER GROUND MANNERS, ETC...
7. MAINLY WORRIED ABOUT WHETHER I AM GOING TO DO THINGS CORRECTLY...BUT PART OF IT ALSO IS GETTING RUN OFF WITH AND OR HURT IN THE PROCESS....I KNOW IT'S SILLY BUT THE LAST RUN OFF, DID GIVE ME A SCARE...! HOLDING BACK AN 1100 LB HORSE JUST IS MIGHTY INTIMIDATING TO ME..... I AM FINE GENERALLY WITH OTHER HORSES, BUT THE SLIGHTLY DIFFICULT ONES, I AM A BIT SKIDDISH OF. AND I HAVE ONE NOW! GO FIGURE!

BUT I AM TRYING MY BEST TO HAVE A POSITIVE ATTITUDE AS WELL AS AN ASSERTIVE ATTITUDE TOWARDS HANDLING THIS....IT WILL BE HARD, I KNOW...BUT I HOPE TO GET THERE SOMEDAY!:rolleyes:

IT IS JUST NEW OWNER JITTERS...I KNOW EVERYONE GETS THEM EVEN WHEN THEY ARENT NEW OWNERS...OR SO I HEAR.
JUST FRUSTRATED THAT WHEN I VIEWED THEM, THEY WERE PERFECT LITTLE GIRLS FOR THEIR OWNER....AND I EVEN SAID..BOY, THEY SURE ARE QUITE MELLOW HORSES!

AND SO HERE I AM.

** MORE CONCERNING NEWS: RI CALLED LAST NIGHT AFTER WORKING SAV SOME...SHE THINKS SHE IS A BIT TOO MUCH FOR ME TOO AT THE MOMENT...NEEDING A BIT MORE FINE TUNING....:( NOT SURE WHAT BUT WILL LET YOU KNWO WHEN I TALK TO HER AGAIN....ASSUMING SHE IS NOT AS MELLOW AS I THOUGHT???

JUST AS BACKGROUND...SAVANNAH FOR ME IS MAINLY FOR HACKING OUT...SOME ARENA EXCERCISES...LEISURE RIDE, BASICALLY.

FANCY FOR MY DAUGHTER IS FOR HER LESSONS..ENGLISH, WESTERNA ND POSSIBLY (IF WE GET THERE) DRESSAGE AS SHE HAS ALWAYS WANTED TO DO...BUT WE ARE AS IT SEEMS MILES FROM THAT AT THE MOMENT....

HOPING THIS WEEKEND WILL BE BETTER...RI IS HELPING TO WORK BOTH A BIT...AND MONDAY FANCY WILL HAVE HER FIRST OFFICIAL "BREAKING" SESSION.....LOTS TO DO! BOY,OH BOY!

[iluvhorses28]

Try join up(never done it myself though…) groom her, lead her in sight of her sis, round for two circles, then bring her back to her. Each day do slightly, everso slightly bigger circles. Also try having a helper lead her sis around, in a circle, with you on the outside, doing an oval. So at every "top" or "bottom" of your circle your leading her just a little away from her, and gradually make your oval bigger, with the sises the same size, until you can walk round a field or a school confidently together.

For your confidence, maybe have two lead ropes on her, with one longer rope, and someone can walk a short distance behind you, without interfering, until she tries to run away, when they can back up your signals. :) just smile and be happy, and make sure everything goes at your pace, and when you want it to, not when she does. If she starts hurring, even just a little, even in the direction you want to go in, turn her round, and start again. Even though she is stronger then you, when she starts going, bend her, anything, just make her bend her neck, even do schooling excersises to practise this, with help. Eventually you will be able to give a slight signal and she will yield, not only is she listening, and obeying you, but when they are straight and start to panic, their instint is go, go, go. When they bend they think a bit more.

THANKS! I WILL TRY THIS TOO...ANY HELP AND EVERY ADVICE I WILL CERTAINLY TRY!:o

I KNOW IT HAS ONLY REALLY BEEN ONLY A WEEK SINCE WE ACTUALLY PURCHASED THEM AND I AM CERTAINLY BEATING MYSLEF UP FOR SOMETHING THAT COULD TAKE MONTHS TO ACTUALLY GET PERFECTED...

I AM HOPING THAT MY RI WILL BE ABLE TO CONTINUALLY HELP ME IN GETTING THEM TO A POINT WHERE THEY WILL AT THE LEAST BE LEAD WELL.