Help with schooling please

[Maclynky]

Has anyone got any suggestions - when I ride Mac at walk he really tucks his head in quite happily but then in trot he really fights the rein contact and goes around with his head in the air. He's only just learns to walk and halt in a nice round head down position but doesn't seem to like any contact at all in trot and canter. I've tried lunging him in side reins but he still trys to lift his head too high. I've had his back checked he was sore but the physio put him right about six weeks ago and has been back since to say he's now fine. He had the dentist last week and the saddler has been and checked his saddle. Any help would be gratefully received. Thanks

[Teasels_Mum]

My lady has this problem too! What we have been doing recently is to establish contact and get her on the bit at walk, then do a transition to trot for just a few paces trying to get her to stay round. If this works, BIG pat, lots of praise, and then let her stretch. Gradually you can increase the duration of the trot.... I've been working on this for about 3 weeks now, and last night she was an absolute star, staying on the bit 90% of the time.... Good Luck though, and praise small improvements as lots of small improvements will get you where you want to be!

[eventerbabe]

side reins are not the solution to this. it is pointless worrying about outlines and a nice head position if the engine i.e. the horses back end is not working properly. if you are trundling along, horse not using his back end and stepping under and powering along using his hind legs what you have is essentially a false outline.

my first steps in this situation would be to forget about the front end. work your horse long and low and concentrate on getting him to stretch through his back muscles and lift with his tummy muscles. only then, once he's working correctly would i even think of taking up a contact and asking him to work into it. and remember, you want the poll to be the highest part of the horse, not the midpoint of the neck. too many times do you see overbent horses with riders who think thats an outline and it blatantly isn't.

[MadWoman]

Echo eventerbabe. Don't worry about where the head is - get the horse working through, straight and lifiting the back, and the head will fall into place on its own.

[Bay Mare]

I agree with the last two posters. My mare had similar issues (though probably for different reasons). We had to work on getting her to stretch out and to work from behind before we could even think about the front end. She's only now starting to work in what you'd call an 'outline'. I'm not worried about that, though, the fact that she IS stretching out and using her back end is a huge breakthrough. I'm happy enough for now that I don't see the end of her nose above my eyeline when I'm riding her :D

[Katharine]

You must make sure the back engine is going before worrying about the front end!!! ;)
For starters, make sure your horse is not running away from you, keep the trot nice and steady - much easier for him to step under. Make sure you have the correct bend, work on changing the rein and hence changing the bend. Do lots of transitions and do some work on moving away from your leg, increasing and decreasing circle size as well as from the 3/4 line to the outside track.
If he is going around with his head in the air he is probably going a bit fast so the first step is to slow everything down. Make sure you use your seat to slow, keep the rising steady and rhythmical. Hopefully this will chill him out a bit!!

[jenren!!]

My instructor is saying exactly the same thing to me at the moment. Too many people (like me before) worry about the horse's head and if the horse's neck isnt arched and tucked in, they think there is no 'outline' as such. In my opinion, the head part should only come in when you have achieved balance, rhythm and suppleness. A horse cannot reach into the contact properly without these. This is where the training scale comes in.

Work on establishing a nice rhythm first of all. Walk around the arena and count the beats, do they seem rhythmical? Then work on stretching your horse's muscles, doing lots of transitions and circles and asking to stretch down.

Alot of horses find working on the bit harder in trot but easier in walk. This is simply because they do not have sufficient 'flexibility' along the top line to support the action of the trot and therefore find it strenuous to work 'properly'. Working on good suppling exercises will help Mac to stretch his top line, you will see the difference. Side reins may or may not help, but like i've always said, nothing substitutes good schooling :) .

Jenny

[Tangle]

I'd agree that if the horse isn't moving correctly, you'll never get a proper outline. (I realise it's probalby just a semantics thing, but "tuck" always makes me think the horse is plodding around with his head "tucked" in, chin to chest, avoiding the contact and doing nothing - probably not true, but can you clarify what you mean by "tuck" to avoid confusion)

A couple of other thoughts, though:
- Are you sure that your balance in trot and canter is as secure as it is in walk? For the horse to come over his back and onto the bit he firsts needs to be able to relax his back - it's very easy for a rider to interfere with this process, especially if the horse isn't quite secure in his own balance.
- How old and well developed is he? Is he capable of working correctly? If a horse is used to moving hollow and on it's forehand then it will be really hard for him to start working properly - he'll need to use different muscles to do so (kind of like training you to run a marathon and then sending you out to compete in the 100m hurdles).
- Are you trying for too much activity? We've gone right back to basics with our mare. After 18 months (not all in work) we're gradually getting her to balance herself in walk on the lunge, so now we're starting trot - it's so tempting to push her beyond what she can actually do in balance, but all that achieves is to put her on her forehand....
- The most important thing I've learnt in the last year is that the horse cannot learn if it isn't relaxed. Is he relaxed?

Above all else, forget about the head and get him working correctly. Once he's working well from behind, the head will look after itself.

Good luck :)

[domane]

From what I've seen from Cherry being schooled, she is trotted very slowly and in a very controlled way... I was surprised to watch... to me it looked like little more than a jog, but she still got a sweat on so it makes you realise how hard she must have been working to keep it all controlled.

I think it's going to be a case of start slooooow and then build up from there. Cantering is definitely off the menu until walking and trotting are cracked.

Can't make any further comment as I am a total ignoramus....

Just off to bed with my "101 ways to Improve your Riding" book :rolleyes:

[vikkit06]

hi.
Have you tried changing the bit or is it to high or to low?you could try and do lots of lateral work so the horse is bending round youre leg and when she accepts the bit more you could then try again.she has to be supple and able to bend before she can go on the bit for you.try lots of 10m circles in walk and as soon as she bends and is more light in the hands praise her with youre voice,you could do shoulder in etc and then when bends round youre legs try the trotting on 15m circles doing the same you did in walk.
good luck xxx