Getting the horse to go!

[elise]

There's probably no easy trick for this but just in case ... how do you get a sticky horse moving?

Axel is great on the trail but you put him in the ring or even just try and school him in the pasture and he's stuck solid. I kick and kick and kick and he'll give me one step at a time. Even had my training chasing us around the round pen waving her arms and jumping up and down, but he's just not scared of stuff like that so it only worked to a minor extent. I don't want to keep kicking him and leave him with dead sides and me chair ridden (I can hardly walk today).

And I did start with just a squeeze of course but that will only get me one step or so and won't get me a trot at all. And I don't really want to start with a crop. On the trail I intend to praise ever forward motion we get in hopes it will transfer. And maybe just spend a day in the round pen and praise every step that doesn't require a fight until he gets it. I sure see why trainers like fast horses better than sticky horses. Yikes.

But if you have any secret tips let me know! Has anyone done anything with John Lyons "yes" cue? Basically a verbal or physical cue that tells the horse what he did was right? I suppose that's the same as praising him.

[vikkit06]

hi.

you could try really growling at im i know its embarasing but... and when e does it praise him but keep the leg on could it be his bit?try a really weak bit if al else fails i fink ul have to use ure whip lol good luk xxxx:o

[KateWooten]

You've got all the right ideas by the sounds of it. The key things thatI tend to forget are
ALWAYS return to the softest cue
... and reward the SLIGHTEST try.

You have to be very very disciplined in this situation to always ask with the very gentle nudge on his sides .. and to always accelerate the cue in exactly the same predictable manner. Once he realises that every time you ask gently, the cue is going to get more and more energetic... then sooner or later he'll figure it's easier to move away on that very first nudge - but it only takes one time of not being consistent to convince him that it's worth being stubborn in the hopes thatyou'll give up.

You have to be prepared to raise the energy of your cue as high as is needed to get the right response. I never go for kicking their sides .. I'd much rather use the short sharp slap of a crop than the side-dulling kicking. Have a look at a beligerent mare putting others in their place with a good kicking ... now, you are not going to approach one tenth of her energy with a crop, so don't worry about it. Nudge with your calves ... nudge with your heals .... tap on the shoulder with a whip .... tap behind the saddle with the whip .... hold both reins in one hand, cross the whip over so you're holding it like a sword and belt him hard on the bum with an overhand swing. Also, use your voice, again increasingly - starting with a cheery 'walk on' ... and ending up at a really meaingful 'Grrr Get on there NOW'

Now, here's the key point. As soon as he takes one little step, just one, even thinksa botu moving forward ... rub his neck, pet him, go soft, relax your body, exhale, praise him. The horse learns from the release of pressure. You want him to walk around, and trot round happily - let that be your long-term goal. For now, for this session, for the purpose of teaching the cue, start from where he is right now. One small step forward and praise him til he's embarrassed to be seen with you. Let him rest a good while... over a minute .. and then sit up, look alert, smile, say 'walk on' cheerily and gently nudge his sides.

Even if this takes 2 hours, or 3 weeks ... stick to the program. Don't let it cross your mind for one minute tht 'he should be able to do this by now' or 'everyone else makes quicker progress than me' or any of those thoughts (they're inevitable) just ignore them, and stay right there, 'in the moment' focussing on what he's doing right now, rather than 'OMGhow long is this going to take'.

If you go at it as though you have unlimited time, he'll get it real quick. If you go at like he needs to get it quickly, it'll take forever !

Hope that helps ... Oh ! And take some pictures :)

Kate

[elise]

hi.

you could try really growling at im i know its embarasing but... and when e does it praise him but keep the leg on could it be his bit?try a really weak bit if al else fails i fink ul have to use ure whip lol good luk xxxx:o

Probably not his bit. He's in a simple D ring, single jointed and he really gets into it. Foaming lipstick and the whole nine. He seems to get the round back part of the lesson a lot better than the bend or the moving foward part. Heh.

[elise]

You've got all the right ideas by the sounds of it. The key things thatI tend to forget are
ALWAYS return to the softest cue
... and reward the SLIGHTEST try.

Hope that helps ... Oh ! And take some pictures :)

Kate

Thanks for the tips, Kate. I'll definitely get going on the praising every try and I think I'll start on the trail where I know he'll be forward so I can use a very mild cue and be successful.

Here's a couple from this past weekend after we really made him sweat, in the field during our trail ride my trainer had him trotting in circles around and around:
http://www.ineedanap.net/farmgirl/photos/2006_05/183_axel_conformation.jpg

http://www.ineedanap.net/farmgirl/photos/2006_05/174_axel_is_silly.jpg

[BNaturally]

How is he with another more experience rider or trainer?

Why not get the assistance of a more experience trainer that deals with horses with respect issues.
The trainer can refresh all of the cues, training of your horse,then re-teach you how to ask for the go forward cue and all of the new buttons to push.

*If you can't find a trainer that can un-stick his feet, then try this.
It always help when we go back to the basic of ground work.
When working with this kind, don't say anything- no good boy or anything.
You must be calm, quiet and clear with your requests,and intentions.
He knows when he get its right and you must allow him to relax and rest when he have done the manuver correctly.

1.You can start out with a slow pace like lateral, vertcial flexions.
You must be aware and safe when doing these working sessions at all times.
Lateral:
Stand next to his shoulder and pull on the lead rope and his head in your direction. Continue to hold until he bend his neck, head and his nose drop lower and into you and then you must release quickly.
Vertcial :
Pull down and hold on the lead rope and when he lower his head abit, then release all pressure quickly.
2.In the same position at his shoulder pull down with the lead rope and when he lower his head abit, quickly release the lead rope pressure.
Hold the lead rope steady with one hand and you need to look at his hind end and kiss and encourage hind end to move in a small circle.You want his rear feet to cross,step over everytime.
This should get you and him started on a working routine.
*Be safe, patient, fair, clear, consistant with your request, and leadership without any negative human behavior.
I hope this helps.

[palmerlover52]

Try making the *whisk* sound that a whip makes...sometimes horses are sent forward by that alone, but only if he has a crop used on him sometimes....keep at it, and eventually i'm sure you'll find away...do you know what he is fed..it probably has an effect?

[elise]

How is he with another more experience rider or trainer?


Well usually on Saturdays the gal training us will ride him and we'll go out on the trail. She'll do a bit of schooling then but mostly we just go out for fun. Tuesdays I ride and she teaches from the ground. Our first lesson was just in a field and he wasn't half bad. This last lesson was in the round pen and he was stuck solid. Kind of on a small budget as far as training goes. Since he does fine on the trail I just wanted to get someone to help us learn a few dressage basics to get him bending and whatnot.

I am wondering if it's just the round pen that had him confused as to what we wanted of him. I think my plan will be to ride him out on the trail this weekend, school him as much as I can there, then pop into the round pen for a few minutes and see how he does.

[elise]

Try making the *whisk* sound that a whip makes...sometimes horses are sent forward by that alone, but only if he has a crop used on him sometimes....keep at it, and eventually i'm sure you'll find away...do you know what he is fed..it probably has an effect?


He gets 2 cups of Senior a day, plus grass hay and they're now out grazing.

[BNaturally]

Hi Elise:
How long have you been working with you trainer?
This isn't to say your trainer not doing the right thing and I understand about the budget and thats OK.
My way is to work with the horse first and when the horse become consistant with everything, then the rider is given instructions and assistance until they both become consistant in learning,understanding and doing things correctly, naturally.
This allow the rider or the owner to maintain what has already been taught to horse.
I can then move on to other manuvers and teach the horse and bring back the owner after those have been install into the horse's training.
I ask for alot of involment of the owner.
Owners that don't have that kind of time, we have a different program that at a slower pace, but the goal is still the same and that is to bring the horse, rider togather in learning and understanding.
This helps in creating both a willing partnership in the learning process.
Keep us posted.

[elise]

Hi Elise:
How long have you been working with you trainer?


We've been riding together for a while. She's ridden my horse most the winter. When my riding barn closed this spring I thought it would be a good time to start getting my own horse working a little more purposefully. We've only done a few lessons so far besides our trail rides. Her stipulation for training him/us was that she would train me to train him. She didn't want to just train him herself and hand him over. This way she can get us working together and I can have a better idea of how to work with him when she's not around.

[BNaturally]

I have never had a client and their horse that was still giving the owner/rider problems after I had done my job.
A trainer can't teach the owner how to do anything, when the horse won't do the request of the rider/owner, so I quest this is what is the differents in my way/method.
You can PM me anytime for assistance.

[elise]

I have never had a client and their horse that was still giving the owner/rider problems after I had done my job.
A trainer can't teach the owner how to do anything, when the horse won't do the request of the rider/owner, so I quest this is what is the differents in my way/method.
You can PM me anytime for assistance.


I guess we just don't see what she could do on the horse than I can't, ya know? If she's just telling me everything she would do, I don't think he'd move for her any better than he does for me. And at this point we aren't doing anything terribly complex so I don't think it's a matter of my ability.

How long does it usually take you to get a horse to do the basic walk and trot commands reliably? Maybe I'm just getting over anxious and haven't given this enough time.

[ridingstar]

You have to be prepared to raise the energy of your cue as high as is needed to get the right response. I never go for kicking their sides .. I'd much rather use the short sharp slap of a crop than the side-dulling kicking. Have a look at a beligerent mare putting others in their place with a good kicking ... now, you are not going to approach one tenth of her energy with a crop, so don't worry about it. Nudge with your calves ... nudge with your heals .... tap on the shoulder with a whip .... tap behind the saddle with the whip .... hold both reins in one hand, cross the whip over so you're holding it like a sword and belt him hard on the bum with an overhand swing. Also, use your voice, again increasingly - starting with a cheery 'walk on' ... and ending up at a really meaingful 'Grrr Get on there NOW'

Now, here's the key point. As soon as he takes one little step, just one, even thinksa botu moving forward ... rub his neck, pet him, go soft, relax your body, exhale, praise him. The horse learns from the release of pressure. You want him to walk around, and trot round happily - let that be your long-term goal. For now, for this session, for the purpose of teaching the cue, start from where he is right now. One small step forward and praise him til he's embarrassed to be seen with you. Let him rest a good while... over a minute .. and then sit up, look alert, smile, say 'walk on' cheerily and gently nudge his sides.



I think that was a great description of how to combine escalation of the aids and reward to get the response you need. I agree sooo much that kicking their sides is not the answer. Far too many riders seem to be scared or unwilling to use their stick properly, when a swift smack or even a hard wallop, as prescribed by Kate, are required. This will usually do the trick, especially with school horses.

[KateWooten]

he looks such a sweetheart - I can't believe he's giving you so much trouble !! I tell you what, though, her certainly looks to me like he's been hauling himself around on the forehand for way too long and not using his back end ... you're quite sure he's not in any pain at all with his back aren't you ? I just had my boy checked all over by a chiropractor with a hammer ... pony went bug-eyed - but it made a big difference in his attitude to going forward.

[BNaturally]

Every horse is unique.
Most of the horses I work with have the same kind of problem and it takes me about a week and half to get them to do all requests consistantly.
Walking, trotting and cantering at a brisk, extended, slow paces.
I like to take the owner/rider and instruct, teach on the cueing and handling.
By this time we're into the middle of the second week and evaluating the rider. I may have to slow down for the owner, it depends on their riding experience and other factors.
I don't go into collection work until the horse is in better shape and conditionning, and the rider/owner understands the new chrome and buttons.
I hope this helps

[elise]

he looks such a sweetheart - I can't believe he's giving you so much trouble !! I tell you what, though, her certainly looks to me like he's been hauling himself around on the forehand for way too long and not using his back end ... you're quite sure he's not in any pain at all with his back aren't you ? I just had my boy checked all over by a chiropractor with a hammer ... pony went bug-eyed - but it made a big difference in his attitude to going forward.

Haven't had him checked out by a chiro at all. Up until September he was ridden once a year for the past 5 years atleast. Plus he's very forward on the trail just not in the round pen. Which is why I think he might just be confused.

[Cheeky]

Heya ..

Hmm .. other than what has been said (I have only skimmed .. so excuse if I repeat), make sure his tack fits correctly (horses change shapes :p), there is no pain, his feet are sound, and that your sitting up right, and giving the correct cues.

Cheek is slow by nature. He's big, boofy and sexy ;) I had a lesson, and the instructor asked me a simple question: "What walk is he giving you? Yours or his?" I found this odd .. but he was giving me the walk HE wanted. So when your walking, or going to walk, dont just nudge nudge and get nothing. You want to get him moving NOW, not later.

Gather your reins to a light contact, and THINK walk. If your not thinking it .. very doubtful its going to happen. Look where you want to go, and tell him 'walk on', and nudge with the legs. If he doesn't go after 3 nudges, I would be carrying a whip until he learns - and dont worry, most horses pick it up within about .. a few mins :p So .. nudge, nudge, nudge (there is no point in 'booting' him), then tap with the whip. He may 'jolt', lift his head, move faster - praise!!! This is what you want. If he slows down .. nudge, nudge, nudge .. tap. Easy :) Same for going into trot ...

I'd recomend a dressage whip for this - as I personally dont like the little jocky whips or crops or what ever they are. I dont see much point in tapping the horse on the shoulder, unless your asking him to move away from that. Using a dressage whip, or a 'long whip', will alow you to reach his hind legs - and thats where the energy is required. You dont need to belt the whip on him - or you may end up sitting on the floor .. just a light tap or two .. if he doesn't respond, a tiny bit harder. And dont forget your seat :)

He may only need this when you warm up each time you ride .. or you may need it every time, or only need the whip every now and then :) The more you train your horse to respond to your leg, the quicker you dont need the whip ..

I hope that helped?

[palmerlover52]

i agree with cheek....
establish RIGHT at the beginnig that your the boss, not Axel, then he'll probably stop taking the p***

[*shooting*star*]

OMG!!!!!

can someone help me gettin my pony going??

i have a show 2morrow and when i rode her last night she was so slow and lazy!!!!!!:confused:
help me please!!!!!!

fanx xxelxx