HELP me please....

[Jem]

Hey, my name is jemma. i have a standardbred who acts like a thoroughbred!!! he has so many issues. he does this head shaking thing up and down almost constantly. He pig roots when he gets excited out in the bush when we go to canter. He does this thing when he just stops and stares out into space and no amount of pushing and kicking will get him to walk on- it is really irritating i usually have to get off and walk him. I had his teeth done thinking that was causing the head shaking but it hasnt. i just dont know what to do. he is lovely and has a great trot on him for a standardbred so i definatly want to work through these little problems. if any one can help, let me know. thanks

[jUmPingIsLifE]

I would also get his back checked as a precaution.
head tossing a lot of the time is a back issues.

if not, it sounds like he really doesn't respect you at all (him spacing out and not listening to you at all..)

perhaps do some ground work to get him respect it WILL carry over to ridden work. Any type or groundwork, if your trainer specailizes in any or if you want to look into Clinton Andersons lounging for respect or his whole groundwork series, or Parelli's 7 games, or his leval 1 pack.

you say that when he stops you cant get him going, try not to let it get that far. if he even starts slowing down do whatever you can to keep him going, trot off if you can. try to keep things interesting in the ride by doing a lot of transitions or serpentining (you can do those out on the trail..it sounds as though are are doing trails)

none of those things to me sound like a Thoroughbred problem though, just a jemma problem;)

[KateWooten]

Yep, pretty much what jUmPingIsLifE said ... except not really a Jem problem ... more a Jem + him relationship not fully built yet problem, that's all.

Sounds like you have a LOT of good going for the two of you - you like him, you are positive about his talents and are looking at him for the long-term, right ? Sounds great. I'm sure we could all go on at great length about how to 'fix' various bits of th problems here and there ... but yes, for the long term, my best bet would be to get with some program or other - Clinton Anderson's is great, easy to follow and cheap... Parelli is also fine if you can bear the guy (and he is a truly GREAT horse handler and rider) ... or really whatever program is popular in your area would do fine - it's nicer if you have friends doing the same program too because although they're almost all the same, they all have their own words for the same thing.

Basically, as an outline of what you want to be thinking....
1) make the right thing easy and the wrong thing more difficult
so, when he stops and stares .. well fine, he can refuse to go forward, but immediately start flexing him or a few minutes(asking him to bend his nose round to your toe one side, then the other), then move his butt over while flexing him, so he walks around in a tiny, tiny circle ... keep at it, and every couple of minutes offer him the chance if he wants to take it, to walk calmly down the road. Stay very very calm and business-like about it. It's up to him ! You're really happy to have the opportunity to make him to all this work ! Sooner or later, he'll realise it's easier to walk down the road than do all these darn circles.

2) Learn the lateral flexion and the one-rein-stop
there's a whole separate thread on this. It's in Clinton-Anderson language ... if you can flex his head round, and get him to step one hindleg in front of the other laterally, then you have an 'emergency brake' for all situations. For a bouncy, excitable horse on new grass I will do 100 one-rein-stops from halt, walk, trot and canter before I'm fully convinced the horse is going to listen to me no matter what. Then at that point we're ready and we're gone gallopping :) So cool to know you can get them back again at any point.

3) Constantly improve your 'release timing'
This is really at the basis of everything. The horse learns by pressure-release Picture the boss mare out in the field putting pressure on a youngster to move out of her way ... as soon as the other horse yields, the boss mare is all smiles again. The quicker you 'release; the pressure when your horse gets teh right answer, the quicker he understands what you want. People with really great release timing have very confident, secure happy horses. people who are late on the release, you will notice have nervous, insecure, or somehow edgy horses... they're not quite sure when tey've got someting right.

Ok, I was trying to do 'short' there .... Hmmm, not my strong point !

Kate

[Pink's lady]

It's standardbred thing, not a TB thing ;) Seems to come with the breed :rolleyes: They're a very in-bred horse and have a fairly small gene pool and a similar up-bringing, which means they are very similar in temperament and behaviour.

The head-snaking is VERY common and is a sign of stress/frustration or excitment. Only way to stop it is to remove the cause.

The stopping and staring ins also common - STB are brave, bold horses but they like to know what's going on and will stop and stare at anything that's vaguely threating.


The only way to stop it is to have enough of his trust and respect that he feels you are capable of dealing with the problems and threats and he can go back to thinking about his stomach (the favorite STB past-time ;))

Bet he's also bulshy on the ground, probably a fidget too and will bully a 'weak' handler ? They're all linked - get the ground work sorted and have him totally respect and trust you and you'll be laughing.

[teabiscuit]

He does this thing when he just stops and stares out into space and no amount of pushing and kicking will get him to walk on
tb's do that too

[jUmPingIsLifE]

Yep, pretty much what jUmPingIsLifE said ... except not really a Jem problem ... more a Jem + him relationship not fully built yet problem, that's all.

agree... my comment was more going towards the fact that it wasn't a TB problem.
just a lil pet peeve of mine when any 'hot' horse or horse with 'problems' are called 'tb-like' haha

One rein stop is great, was going to give you a great artical but i cant seem to find it..

[teabiscuit]

i've got a tb who gazes into the distance, and several people i know have had the same experience with tb's-i haven't come across it in other breeds, it's like he's thinking deep and meaningful thoughts, i find it quite cute actually :)
interesting to hear that standardbreds can be known for it too

[KateWooten]

One rein stop is great, was going to give you a great artical but i cant seem to find it..

this one ?
http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/LateralFlexion.htm

or maybe there's one at the harmony project ?

[jUmPingIsLifE]

thats the one i ment i thought i had it bookmarked but i guess no. will have to bookmark it now though!

teabiscuit- most horses do it every once in a while, horses have much better vision (at least in some ways) then us and we often dont see what htey are looking at but they usually see stuff that is interesting that we cant see. never seen a horse that didn't do this once in a while, but while you are working with them its bad bad as it means they arn't paying attention to you

[Jem]

Hey thanks al for your suggestions! I have had his back checked and he is a bit sore, the lady that came to look at him said my saddle is bouncing on his back just before his rump and i need to get a foam insert to raise the back of the sadle up a bit. Did this and i still got the pig roots :( i have started some basic ground work with him and did try the turning his head around to my ankle when he stopped and refused to go any further. It did work. His head shaking i dont know but the lady who came out said he was doing it becasue his balance is not very good. hmmm i will get there i just have never done this before, or should i say dealt with a horses habits. Thanks all for your suggestions

[jenren!!]

You'll get there with him, i'm sure :) Just keep persevering.

Jenny

[Alex T]

HEHE I like to think its a STB thing but im sure its not just them. i have a 22 year old standardbred who when i first got him used to just stop and refuse to walk on . i swear he was just testing me. iv owned him since he was 14 and can honestly say i now have the complete oposite problem!!he is pretty much everything pink lady discribes or as i call him a hyper nut ud understand if u saw the head nodding(or rather banging) in the morning to go out. i agree with the others handling from the ground will help when i brought my horse i was told not to let him walk all over me and i can certainly see y. none of it will come over night but the more time u spend with him the bigger the bond and the respect hell have for u!!
i no this is a few months late but he sounds so much like my old boy i couldnt resist !!

[TheHoglet]

tb's do that too
thats cos TB's are gormless they can see the spooks!:p

[teabiscuit]

thats cos TB's are gormless they can see the spooks!:p
:eek: gormless?
how very dare you :D

[lindajane]

Kate Wooten has the answers you need as far as handling goes. Practise that lateral bend. Lots of horses have the little quirks you describe. My QH is one with lots of TB in her breeding and she does the very same things you describe. The first thing I checked was the saddle. That is now perfect. Be as sensitive to your horse as you can and he will try to tell you what the trouble is. How are bit and bridle?

My mare hates the cinching up too but has improved her attitude over the year I have had her since I am always so patient. I talk to her sweetly as I very gently increase the tension. I have explained to her lots of times how important it is that the cinch is tight enough and I think she is beginning to accept that. She hates it as much as I do when I go to step off and the saddle comes with me. I always reward her once the cinching is done but I often have to do it in two stages. It's worth taking the time. She really doesn't blow her tummy out so much now.

The first thing I worked on when I got her was the groundwork. Teaching her to respect my space and to lead up freely and back on the first ask took about a week of short daily sessions with a dually halter. That has paid off every day since. I can mover her in any direction now and she stands like a rock while I groom or saddle. Get a dually and watch a Monty Roberts DVD.

My mare also stops dead, rooted to the spot, head up and obviously mesmerized by something I can't see. I ask her to soften her mouth and poll and then bend her or turn her if there is space. If not I back her a few steps. It may take 3 or 4 of these little busy sessions but if I stay quiet and matter-of-fact she will eventually take my word for it that things will be ok up ahead. She gets a gentle stroke when she takes even a step in the right direction. Please don't kick and whack. Your horse will only get more worried as a result. Try to think of helping your horse rather than enforcing your will on him.