Lazy/Careless with hind legs - How to improve?

[Blue Fish]

I event my horse, but have a few problems with my show jumping (I'm no show jumper:) ) He tends to be lazy or careless with his hind legs, this generally means we have poles down in our SJ rounds.

I was wondering what sort of work I could do to make him more careful.
I assume grid work of some kind is the route I should be taking, but advice on suitable grids or other work would be gratefully received.

[ponysales]

provided your horse is sound and not green, you should try walking LOW fences. This teaches your horse where his legs are. Some horses, unfortunately, are the kind that "feel" there way around a course. Usually that's in front. Make sure he's always square to the fence. Ride straight, Leg at the base, ride straight at the landing. A pole in between two fences helps to teach them to reach and have to place the hind end where you need them to be.

[Ali_fewins]

Do some V poles.

this helped my horse loads.

[mister jones]

erm what are V poles? am i beinf incredibly stupid lol? :)

thanks:P

[EmmaRotherham]

I'm guessing they mean puting up a straight pole then resting two other poles on it in a 'V' shape, with the point on the poles and the wide, open ends on the floor.

or at least that's my understanding of them

[DavidH]

He tends to be lazy or careless with his hind legs, this generally means we have poles down in our SJ rounds.

The eventers curse :( This is a problem most event horses have and is due to us pushing the horse for longer and longer strides to make the time XC.
As a result the horse canters with a longer and flatter stride in the SJ but we dont notice it cos its way shorter than we would use XC.

Solution is to work on the canter and really shorten it up. Various methods of doing this but wont go in to them as it depends on your horse as to which method to use.
Using grids, either tight bounce (3.5 paces) or with shortened stride (6.5 paces instead of 8) helps a lot. Using tight canter poles after the grid and having the grid ascending also helps to put them back on their hocks.

I didn't really appreciate how bad the canter can get until I had a similar problem with my old eventer and in desperation had a session with Yogi Briesner. Wont go in to how we shortened the canter but suffice to say we jumped clear in the next event :D

[helenc]

Have you got any piccies of you in the showjumping phase? Could be that it is to do with your position as I would imagine you make a different shape over a SJ fence than you do XC.

Grids/V poles/high ended x poles/ low but very wide oxers/placing poles in front & behind the jump will all help to create a better shape over the fence

[Blue Fish]

Have you got any piccies of you in the showjumping phase? Could be that it is to do with your position as I would imagine you make a different shape over a SJ fence than you do XC.

Grids/V poles/high ended x poles/ low but very wide oxers/placing poles in front & behind the jump will all help to create a better shape over the fence

Picture of us over warm up fence at Broadway

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/bluefish_2006/68249780-O.jpg

DavidH, I have the shortest striding horse you can imagine:eek: I refer to him as my pony.

He does get a little onward, so it is most likely to be length of stride- flattening due to speed, which causes the problem.
We have had sessions with Nigel Taylor, both SJ and XC to try and help us move up the levels. Need some deceent flat work lessons now;)

I think I need to work on getting impulsion in his canter and maintaining it.

Thanks everyone for your input, just need a volunteer to be pole picker and jump builder now when practicing at home:)

[helenc]

Well from that picture it looks like you need to give with your hands a little more for SJ, you haven't jabbed him or anything but the reins look a little tight, if you look closely the corners of his mouth look like they are being pulled back a little, this could be the cause of dropping the back legs.

Apart from that then yes, you need to work on the canter & getting him to sit right back on his hocks before take off, work on plenty of half halts & canter halt canter transitions on the flat at first & then a few strides away on the approach to a jump.

Placing poles either side of a low upright will help create a good shape over the fence (make sure you approach in trot though, otherwise you might end up jumping the whole thing) then build a low but wide oxer so you jump the upright with placing poles & then carry on the canter & carry on to the oxer. Grids made up of a bounce over uprights & then one stride to an oxer will also help.

[Blue Fish]

helenc,

Thanks for the advice, I know we have loads to work on, I need to open my knee more too as my lower leg has a tendancy to go back as I pivot on my knees:eek:

We were working on a grid of a bounce over a cross to upright followed by one stride to an oxer on Monday evening, this was when we worked out he was lazy behind.

Looks like it is going to be lots of canter work and transitions for him in flat work sessions:D

[mister jones]

I'm guessing they mean puting up a straight pole then resting two other poles on it in a 'V' shape, with the point on the poles and the wide, open ends on the floor.

or at least that's my understanding of them

Thanks for explaining!:)

[jUmPingIsLifE]

is it possible you are sitting your bum down to early? that will bring down the rails.

as for excersizes, practicing gymnastics and bounce fences is great.

tahoe can be quite lazy and sometimes showing him the stick gives him a little more motivation if he is being really lazy sometimes i'll use it once and its enough to remind him to pick up his feet. as long as i know its not my own doing that is. i know sometimes i ride a little defensive with him since we have had a..interesting history and i know when i didn't ride the fence well

[Ali_fewins]

thats exactly what i mean by V poles- trust me they work wonders! :)

[* Groomette *]

Typical eventer. :) Sounds like you've figured out what you have to do (or have been told by one of many good posts already). Bounces, bounces, bounces. Tight canter 1 and 2-strides. You are in charge of that canter. You want to find the best way for you to learn how to get him to roll onto his hind. Being an eventer, you likely have long, paced strides with a flat jump. Your power is more important to your paced gallop than to one jump. Anyways, as I said. Make him rock onto his hind through short canter grids--bounces are incredibly helpful. Don't canter into fences flat, because that's only asking for a weak hind.

I'm not sure if ONE picture can really give light to the whole problem, but it also appears as if you are coming onto his back likely before he's landed with his fronts (and if not, still way too soon. In the picture you should still be folded and not opened up as you are) . If this is a common issue (and not just limited to this picture), your landing on hsi back early and restricting him through your lack of release is likely a BIG chunk of your problem. Follow with your body, keep your forward body sometimes three or four strides after a fence. If you look crazy doing it, even better. Stay off that back, grab some mane, and stay where you are. (I have the same problem...trust me...if you feel like an idiot, you're doing it right!)

EDIT -- Your position is a very good example of a defensive position for the cross country field, which is what is required out in that world. However, it'll kill you if you continue with it in the jumper ring, you've just ruined whatever good you just had.

[Ali_fewins]

Also weighted boots?

i no a lot of people dont like them, but i use them occassionally and can see in pictures i have the difference in my younger horses kick back. I hardly use them though- very occassionally

[horsecrazychick]

I think some short bounces and grids would help, since those would help him to collect. Just don't let him collect, then get lazy and lose impulsion. Try to keep him going forward with energy, but collected enough that he doesn't get quick or strung out.
Hopefully that will help, but only if you're riding isn't limiting him over the fences. While you're in the air, you don't want to have any affect on the horse and you want to allow him to jump as naturally as possible. In the photo it looks like you MIGHT be getting left behind and not releasing enough, which would limit him from jumping up to his potential- or maybe you've caught him in the mouth or something a few times and now he's hesitant to really use himself over the jumps.
Anyway, I'm not an expert. Just my opinion. =) Best of luck!

[Emz]

I agree with what others have said about V-poles and grids to help you get a better shape and improve your horses agility over his fences. Lots of relatively big uprights will help him learn to snap up infront as well as behind.

Another thing i've found with my lad is that if i keep my leg on him side for a fraction longer over a spred he tends to flick up his back end a little more and put a bit more effect in.