To report or not to report

[Catherine]

This is a tricky one, but I need some comments. Simple facts that I can establish without talking to owner or examining pony without permission are:

Small Shetland pony, age unknown, mostly kept in a small wooden shelter (maybe 6 feet by 4 feet). Very rarely seen out of shelter. Always in rug when seen out. All alone. Not very big area to move around in when out (maybe 15 feet by 6 feet) and area has some debris not suitable for being walked on/near by pony. Zero grass.

My concerns which conflict each other are:

(1) He could be a serious laminitic, and therefore needs strict management, in which case I am possibly going to upset the owner by reporting her when she is apparently looking after her pony "properly". As he is wearing a rug, does that not indicate concern for his well-being in the recent cold weather.

(2) He could not be laminitic but in fact be in need of decent grazing and more room to move around; the rug could be hiding malnutrition/lice/skin problems that the owner is ignoring or cannot afford to resolve. He ought to have equine company if possible.

What I do know by the grapevine is that the lady who owns the pony split acrimoniously from her husband about 18 months ago and had to move out of the family home, with husband refusing any financial support for her and small child, and, presumably, pony.

What would you do? Something tells me to ring the RSPCA anyway, and they can make a tactful enquiry; if the woman has nothing to hide, she need not be annoyed by a busy-body like me. Something else says make a direct approach to the owner and find out what the position is, and offer to help rehome the pony if she can't afford it.

[Horsey Bird]

Hi Catherine
I used to live in Canada and once reported a local stables to the SPCA. In this case it was clear-cut; the animals were suffering appaling abuse.

There were 30 or so horses crowded into a small galvanised shed in 30C heat & humidity with no drinking water!!! Some had gashes from barbed wire, one had lost an eye to barbed wire. Those horses which didnt get along with the others had bitten & kicked some of the horses and since they were all stuffed into this shed, those being attacked couldnt escape.

I reported them to the SPCA, and the response I received knocked me for six. They basically told me that they had been out there already (due to another complaint) and could find nothing wrong with the place!!! I dont know what it would have taken for them to shut the place down, but I really couldnt understand their lack of action.

SO after all that.... my advice would be,
1. The animal cannot "complain" if its being mistreated, therefore its up to some caring person to do so;
2. If in doubt, I would err on the side of caution and ask the RSPCA to look into the matter. You're not necessarily saying the pony is being mistreated, you're just concerned and asking them to investigate further;

3. While the owner may be under some stress right now with her personal situation, she should understand that your calling the RSPCA is not out of nosiness, but rather out of concern for the ponys' wellbeing.

I personally take a very black and white view on the issue of animal welfare; if the owner isnt capable of giving the animal the attention and care it needs (for whatever reason), then they have no business keeping that animal. THey are being selfish and possibly cruel if they keep an animal under those circumstances!!

THere are plenty of people who would love and care for that pony.

4. And finally, if you're concerned about her reaction, the RSPCA doesnt need to give your name.

My 2 cents worth !!!

[cvb]

why not check out who your local BHS welfare officer is and ask their advice ?

I think in order to act you have to prove real suffering - i.e. after tha fact, rather than the pony eing 'at risk'.

I think there is some campaigning going on to change this situation through legislation. But for now there is no prevention, only action after there is a big problem.

[Pixie]

I had to report a pony to the RSPCA once and the owner was someone I knew!
The pony was kept in a huge field with a couple of others and it was spring with all the lush grass, the pony was obeese? sp? and crippling lame.
A footpath ran through the field and I managed to sneak up and feel this pony's feet and they were boiling! So I presumed it had laminitis. I knew that the girl that owned it only saw it once a week and the owner of the field checked it daily.
When I approached the owner of the field to say that on walking through on the footpath I noticed the pony was lame she replied 'yeah I know and I've told the owner and she says she can't afford the vet and just to leave it to right itself, I 'aint responsible for it I only own the field!'

So I rang the RSPCA and annonomously reported the case and two days later thay rung back and said thay had been to see the pony and it had been taken into care with laminitis! The owner incidently was relieved as she could not really afford the pony and now it has been rehomed!!

Happy ending to a fairly sad story! ;)

[larri]

I had a very similar situation in a garden near me.
Shetland pony kept in a dog kennel ( no joke) in a strip of garden that after 2 weeks was 20x 10 ft of mud.
They just didn't know how to keep a pony and had bought it to keep as a pet like a dog. Poor thing - wasn't being treated cruelly - just not the way an equine should be. A local shelter was contacted and they had a friendly quiet word about correct care and it was signed over.

[Wally]

Laminitic or not this is no way to keep a Shetland pony or any pony come to that!

Have a quiet word with your local RSPCA and they will gently investigate. Unless it's the one we have here who is useless!!

[ruby]

I agree, have a word with the RSPCA - okay so the owner might be a bit narked with you if she finds out but just imagine how you would feel if you did nothing and the pony ended up hurting itself or worse

[skye]

and you are going to really hate me for this!:( but the RSPCA WILL NOT DO ANYTHING! i reported a pony that was being seriuosly neglected and they didn't even bother to check.I'm very sorry but i don't think the rspca will do anything.Try your local ILPH i had sucess with them,and the poor pony was rescued and rehomed.The pony you are talking about is obviously suffering.Even if it is a laminitc a 6'x4' shelter is not big enough and it still needs either daily turnout or exercise.Report this pony you can ease this poor things suffering .Just because it may be a laminitic it doesn't mean it should be shut in all the time.
:mad:
good luck and sorry for my moan:o :D

[Sarah]

hello!

I'd say report it, you have nothing to lose by doing so. Hopefully the RSPCA will take action and at least check out the situation.

if that doesn't work then it may be worth approaching the owner and seeing that all is ok.

HOpefully the RSPCA near you will take some action (or at least investigate). A few years ago a friend of mine (who lives near you) reported a pony in a very similar situation to them and got an immediate response. It turned out that the pony that she reported was just very old but in good health.

Do let us know how you get on.

bye!

[cvb]

looks like you have more than one authority you can report to anyone, so one of them shoudl react - either ILPH, BHS, or RSPCA.

[KarlR]

I have to agree with skye.

The RSPCA are very bad at actually doing anything in my experience. I have reported animals in the past but unless they can actually prosecute they will not do anything at all. It really does seem that black and white to them.

The ILPH, however, are just wonderful and I have nothing but praise for them. We reported a horse that seemed to have been abandoned and they sent out an investigator. They then contacted us again and agreed that the horse was not in a good state, but that they were probably not actually breaking the law in terms of cruelty. However, they went on to track down the owner, had a a serious word with her about her responsibilities and said to her that they would be keeping an eye on the horse. The owners were upset and I believe sorted things out. They kept us informed at all times and approached the whole issue with the owners tactfully and supportively - most owners don't deliberately harm their horses and the ILPH will help them understand the problem rather than just prosecuting (which can be very difficult to do successfully).

I would always report to the ILPH first - they seem to understand the issues and if they can help the horse without upsetting the owners then they will do because they believe that the important thing is to help the horse.

[Cathy Reynolds]

I'd agree - ILPH first. They do the right thing, and do it fast when necessary. Watching them work at their HQ (Snetterton, about 15 miles away from me) with some of the rescued youngsters is a real eyeopener.

[H & Bailey]

I would contact the owner first,have a word can u give it a home?or do u know someone who does,if so suggest that is why you are interested.This way you can maybe find out a little more,dont go charging in as she may genuinely be stuck and need help but is too proud to ask,or she may just give you a mouthful.
If she isnt very helpful them ring animal welfare or rspca etc.
As it is this time of year they may be willing to do something but if there is evidence of food,hay and water they will not do anything but she will be warned.
My friend was reported by a concerned person last year as she has a shetland and her field1/2 acre with shelters is muddy and hay is put out.The people were concerned as he was standing in the rain looking miserable.Nothing wrong with the pony he is prone to laminitus so in the summer is kept on a starvation type paddock with hay.We(my friend and myself)dont like stabling but prefer the more natural way of keeping horses so they do get mucky and wet.If the person had come and asked her questions about the pony they would have been told his situation so I would ask first.

[Catherine]

Well, I emailed the BHS welfare person today and have had bleep-all response. The RSPCA haven't answered the phone all day, so tomorrow I will try again, and also try the ILPH, or see if there is a Redwings rep near me.

I'll let you know if I have any joy. I just know if I don't do something, I will feel really rotten.

Thanks for all your support :)

[Sharon H]

How about contacting the owner and saying that you've been looking for a companion pony and noticed hers and wondered whether she'd be interested in loaning him to you? That way you should be able to get her to tell you a bit more about him and you could find out why he's been kept like that? Of course, there's always the risk that you'll end up with another pony!
I think that as long as the pony has water and food, the RSPCA will be unable to do anything about it anyway.

[Lucy J]

Please try not to get frustrated with the RSPCA or other charities. They are very busy people and do not employ a lot of people. Generally as long as the animal (horse, pony, dog etc) is being fed and watered there is not a lot they can do even if there may be wire in the field/a stable that is too small. There are so many animals needing help, especially at this time of year, and space in these places is tight.

I would not suggest approaching the owner yourself until you know what the situation with the pony is. Keep phoning the various charities and get them to do a routine check. Sometimes things aren't always what they seem. My old horse got painfully thin before he died and suffered from laminitis occassionally, he was fed the best feed money could buy and did not have a lot of access to grass, but he was the best cared for horse in the world even though he looked terrible. I would advise caution more than anything else, although it is good that you are concerned.

[Kakworm]

You could also try HAPPA (Horses and Ponies Protection Association). They have area welfare officers who visit horses/ponies. It is a difficult situation, I know, only last year I reported a chap who kept seven T/B's on a very muddy field with little hay and no rugs. Poor devils were shivering with cold, especially as the weather dropped one night to -8.

However, RSPCA said that as long as the horses did not have very visible ribs sticking out, there was nothing they could do.

Very frustrating, but I have since heard that HAPPA were very good when a friend reported a horse to them.

Anything is worth a try. Good luck.

[Dressage_Luvr]

hi,

some of these stories are so sad!!

near my grandparents there is a place where a man keeps quarter horses.

there must be at least 30 mares in the small place at one time, and the hay he feeds them is all yucky brown, they are those huge round bails, and he leaves the plasticky string stuff on it, and at least two times me and my cousin have had to pull it off of horses legs, because they have had their legs caught in it.

they are pretty much totally walking in their own flith, and its all muddy and yucky. someimes they odnt have any water, and there are uually a bunch of mares and foals inside in this fairly small part of the barn. and in a space a little bigger are at least as many yearlings.

These are some of the injuries there have been there that weve seen-

no eye,
big gash in leg, no bandages- its been around a year now, its HUGE- with big scars, and yuck, her hock is huge, and its big all the way to her foof, even its weird shaped.

missing part of an ear, all bloody,
tons of gashes all over face and body,
a young horse, who was very noticably lame, couldnt barely put his back leg down, the owner knows we go to see the horses, and onece a asked him what happened to the little guy, and he just said something like "were not sure, one day we cam up and he was like this, hell grow out of it" i could barely help from yelling t him!

The problem is, he has several barns, and is a well known person for his quarter horses. he doesnt ride horses there, its mostly foals. but like my uncle said that no one would pay any attention to us complaining, cuz he just has so many good horses, and does well, and people pay him to train their horses aetc.


I fell so sorry for them, they are all so nice, well, i cant keep talking, itll just make me really sad, im already sad tuday, one of my friends moved away. :(

[Yvonne M]

Nothing would surprise me these days. Being a 'big name' does not mean that the animals are well cared for!! We once went to look at some dog kennels with a view to purchasing them but I was flabergasted when we went there. These were top judges & top breeders who frequently were featured in the dog press. I could not believe the sqalid conditions that their poor dogs were kept in. Unbelievable!!

[Anja]

My mum once called the RSPCA about this treking vcenter and they didnothing ok well they went and had a llok and they said "the horses servive he has hay to give the," rthe problem was the owner didnt give them hay, they where over worked,one of them had a gungy eye he did nothing about it and my mother slypled medicine for it!!!!! (( I cant spell)) the sad thing is that it is still running today and this was about 1 or 2 years ago when my mum worked there

[M-A]

Hi there,

Just to say a big thankyou to Lucy J for her comments in support of welfare charities. People often have a picture in their mind of what they would like to see happen, in circumstances such as these. They can then feel very let down if the problem is not concluded, to their full satisfaction, or they are not made aware of action taken.

All the charities that you mention have to abide by the law, in just the same way as you or I. Some of them expend a lot of time, funds and effort, in trying to lobby the government to improve the law, but it is an unbelievably slow process. Unfortunately, the law pertaining to animals is relatively weak. Try comparing the sentences handed out for cruelty to children, compared to similar cases with animals and you will see exactly what I mean. If a drunk driver kills a pedestrian he/she is in serious trouble. If a horse is killed under the same circumstances, the chances of the driver receiving a custodial sentance is non existant.

I believe that people often vastly overestimate the power that even a big charity such as the RSPCA can wield. For instance, they have no right of entry to property. If access is denied, they have to gain entry via the police, and they cannot do this without powerfull evidence of a problem. Too many false alarms, and the police could, justifiably, be less keen to offer their support.

If a case is reported to the RSPCA they have to respond, but they are not obliged to pass on certain details of action taken, and you usually have to actively request a follow up call. Minimising the number of follow up calls made to those reporting a problem, maximises the amount of time spent investigating reports of cruelty, and taking action, where possible. For this reason, I never request follow up calls, and I work for the organisation. If they get chance, they will ring, if not thats fine by me.

Hope this is of interest.