can horses be allergic to grass?

[H & Bailey]

Hi my friend has rang today to ask for advice.Thought you may be able to help..ponyvet and kin?she has got a 3yr 14.2hh dales x mare.When she got her she had diahorrea she hosed her down,she was covered!Everyone commented how fat she was (huge) .I thought it was a grass belly,but she got the vet out incase it was pregnant.He couldnt check as she had the runs he gave her some pink stuff which smelled like bubblegum ,which she had to pour down her throat each day.Her droppings firmed up a little( but still aren't normal,)as her grass was short she gave her a little hay.When ridden she is really quiet and seems to tire really quickly.If riding out with me(as I have a 3yr old) we are both at the same speed just walk and a little trot,she is lagging behind and yawning after about 5 mins!Everyone kept asking 'when is the foal due' so my friend got the vet again!He checked and said she isn't pregnant but just fat! Due to the bad rain my friend has moved the pony into a bigger field as the other is a mud puddle.Her droppings have gone really sloppy she was really worried ,but another girl from the stables said her horses were the same as the grass is quite lush.She has had the vet out again as she was really worried, and they have done all sorts of tests...salmoella,blood ,anemia and worm infestation .He has rang back today and said that they are all clear?We thought that was good but he said it is the opposite, as there is something wrong ,and said she has to give it 2 pots of yogurt a day and get other horses droppings and feed them to it????a horse wont eat droppings will it?something to do with it getting vitamins and goodness?
I suggested moving it off the lush grass putting it back in the little field and putting hay out and maybe giving her a feed with bran in to bind her up a bit.
Maybe keep her in a starvation type field.The pony is still really fat!The vet had said the previous owner must have known there was something wrong with it,she got it from a dealer and he couldnt get rid quick enough.We thought it was cause he thought it was pregnant,and he had a buyer for her old pony..
What could be wrong?Is it allergic to the rich grass,or could it be anything else?I feel awful as I went with her to view it ,and I told her to get it.I felt bad when she was convinced it was in foal and relieved when it wasnt now that it is poorly I feel awful.
Help!!

[RingLass]

Hmm ... I'm stumped. It's good that you got the vet involved; that's the first step. But I don't know what to do after that. My friend had a horse who was allergic to grass, but he didn't exhibit syptoms like those...

[ros]

Sorry, just run that past me again - feed it droppings???????!!!!!!!

Nope, can't believe it.

I don't know what's the matter, I'm just shocked. It certainly sounds like a worm problem of some description - is the pony bloated rather than fat? I'll be fascinated to know what ponyvet has to say.

[liz--y]

there is something horses can get forgot what it is called, when they lack vitamins and minerals and eat there droppings it has a spicel name, i wont add a vitamin and mineral suplement to its feed, like codlervin. i wouldnt feed it other horses droppings.

[Sharon H]

I can't beleve that a vet suggested feeding other horse's droppings, are you sure that's what he/she said? If it is a suspected mineral deficiency there's thousands of supplements out there that you can feed. How long has your friend had the mare? Sometime the stress of moving can make their droppings really loose. If the grass is quite long then it will make her droppings sloppy, some horses react more than others to this.Have you tried sending a sample of dung to be tested for worms? That would be my first reaction. I would also try feeding it on equillibra and some good quality hay for a while.

[skye]

I have known afew people whos horses have had the same problem.Try feeding her a probiotic.I think you will find its something to do with the micro-flora of the hind gut (i wouldn't swear on it though) It makes thier digestion loose as the food doesn't get digested properly .There was a posting on www.horsedata.co.uk a while back .Try the probiotic for a month or so then try a feed balancer.Also all our horses go loose when on really good grazing.Could your friend let her graze the mud puddle with hay most of the day and only give her a couple hours a day on the good grass? also if the mare is very over weight this would cause her to be tierd and lethargic.good luck let us know how she gets on!

[ponyvet]

Natural yogurt will act as a probiotic and yes if youcan get it to eat other horses droppings, as long as they've been wormed properly that's a good source of the normal type of bacteria that should be found in the gut. It sounds like the vet thinks it may have a gut flors imbalance, which is a reasonable line to follow given the negative results for everything else.

The thing I'd be most worried about is has she lost any weight whilst she'd had diarrhoea? if not then there must be something else going on.

Also at this time of year she's eating grass with a high water content and not much goodness, so maybe try taking her off the grass and feeding her on hay and even mix in some straw (e.g. barley straw) as extra roughage. What you don't want to be doing is feeding any concentrates. Even though you want her to get enough energy you need to slow down the passage of food through her guts and that means lots of rough fibre like straw. Concentrates won't help, but bran probably will so that's a good idea. Also if she's fat we don't need to worry about her losing condition. Hyperlipidaemia is a risk with rapid weight loss in small ponies but I think she'd be fine as she's too big really for that.

Just as an aside the worm test is for tapeworms so she could have a roundworm problem. Has she had a good worming regime?

Sounds very interesting and probably one of those things that needs to be treated symptomatically and will eventually clear up on it's own and you'll never really know what the problem is!


Oh and by the way in answer to "can horses be allergic to grass?" that's one theory towards grass sickness - but the true allergy is most likely to be to something found on the grass or in the soil! But theoretically yes they can!

[H & Bailey]

Thanks for your help I popped to see my friend today.She has put 'rosie' back into the mud puddle field with hay and has given her a small feed of mollichop and bran and is gonna give her the same on a night.she did manage to get some yoghurt down her but I dont think she really likes it.
I dont think she is gonna try the dropping thing..is there anything else she can give-ponyvet or should she just carry on like this and see what happens?
She has only had the pony for about4 month, when the vet came the first time after she had had her for 4 days he gave her an equest wormer.The vets checks he has done this time was for all worms and she is clear we dont know her worming history.Ive suggested when she is due next to get a 5 day guard panacur.
Will let you know what happens...

[Sharon H]

Equillibra, blue chip and top spec all have pre-biotics in them. I think you can also use echinea (sp?).

[ponyvet]

Pro-biotics act to help growth of bacteria in the gut. I have no idea whether echinacea works or not.

The only way to replace bugs if they ar not there is to get them from another horse, which is where the droppings idea comes from. I've never ever had to recommend it to anyone, but it is what you do with cattle that are suffereing from gut flora imbalances. You don't need a lot, just a handful, and obviously ideally fairly fresh. You caould mix it into a small bran mash so it's palatable.

Horses do eat each others dung normally, though you've probably never noticed as they only do it occasionally. It's also a normal thing that foals do when they are newborn as it hleps them to get the right gut flora and helps set their digestive tract up for eating normal feed instead of milk. As she's still young she probably won't care.

I know it sounds disgusting to humans but it might work!

The imbalance may well have been there since before she arrived, or has developed. It comes about from a complex set of circumstances, including parasites, change of diet, etc etc.

THIS IS NOT RELATED TO A MINERAL DEFICIENCY!!! so don't bother going for any fancy supplements as they may actually do more harm than good. You need to think of her (for the moment at least) as having a very sensitive stomach, so she needs bland and simple food to keep her well. Stick to mollichop, hay and straw, occasionally some sugar beet for energy and the yogurt. Try mixing some honey or molasses with it if she will prefer it.

[ros]

Ponyvet - out of interest, could previous worm damage manifest itself in this way, or would it be more likely to show as colic?

[ponyvet]

Yes a previous, persistenly, heavy worm burden could do just this, and there'd be absolutely nothing you could do, as it would be caused by scarring of the intestinal tract. You'd have to find a diet that would sort it out, and try asking a feed company to help, otherwise you'd be looking at a lost cause. However you lose nothing by trying all the other options. The important thing is that she's not thin so it's not a chronic (long term) wasting condition, which would fit in better with a history of worm problems.

The diarrhoea she now has will eventually cause her to lose weight, but if you can settle it down then that's great. You need to remeber that evrey dietary change needs time to get to work, so don't expect rapid results.

Colic problems related to worms are caused by sudden changes in the worm population within the gut - e.g. mass emergence of encysted larvae from the gut wall, or sudden death (due to worming) of a heavy tapeworm burden in a horse that hasn't been wormed properly for a long time.