Plz respond if you have any idea...

[Nikita88]

I got my horse Nikita baout 2 years ago. She is 11 year old t'bred eventer. well she was an eventer and i got her for mainly dressage and i do some jumping once in a while. Anyway....latley she hasnt been coming down on the bit, and i thought it was just me and i was doing something wrong. whens he would come down she would like drop the bit. So my trainer was like "Let me get on and see whats going on" then once my trainer got on....she couldnt get out of hte bit so she started pacing. she owuld go from pace to trot then pace for a long time then do a trot. as you all know...pacing is quit hard for a horse. She like wont turn her head to the left, as a result i get really strong in my left rein and left leg and left seat...everything on my left side is strong. and im so used to it....it even happens when im on another horse. So my trainer new somethign was up when she wouldnt turn her head left and kept pacing and tryin to drop the bit (she couldnt drop it this time cause we put a flash on her for this lesson) So my trainer gets off...and we take off the saddle, and she starts pushing on her back and Niktia doesnt do anything and once she pushed on her withers, she quiverd and backed up. then she would shake her head. So we figured out that it hurts her to come down on the bit and thats why she isnt doing it. So i got this really expensive dressage horse, that i was told had no previous injuries ever...and my trainer thinks it could possibly be she was injured before and its reoccuring cause nothing ever heals 100% back to normal....or it could be arthritis cause the withers is where the bones meet. Im soooo worried its going to be where i cant ride her in dressage any more, like...the stage im at now, the horse HAS to be on the bit and have acceptance of the bit....and i dont know what it is. we have a highly recommended vet coming to look at her on Wednsday but i cant wait that long......dos anyone have any idea of what could be wrong? could it be stress (we just moved to a new barn in march and the weather is changing alot) or....could it be her just being a brat and trying to get out of work cause she does that....im worried this is as far as she can take me.

[SpyGirl]

Check your saddle, and check her teeth. To me, the wither discomfort and unwillingness to bend makes me think your saddle doesn't fit. Try lunging her in a well fitting surcingle and side reins and see if she will work up that way.

[Nikita88]

MmM thats what i was thinking it could possibly be the saddle. I have a whippie saddle, its older...but in really good shape considering i backed over it with my car. I got it checked out though, like i took it in and made sure it was still okay to use like the tree n stuff....everything was fine surprisingly!!!! cause i didnt back over it all the way...there is a tire mark on the seat (haha). I have my pessoa jumping saddle that was custom made for her....i could try that too. I'll try putting a sur single on her (idk how to spell that lol) and see how she does.....she also has lost alot of weight, idk if that could take into consideration. I put her on a diet cause she was getting chubby.

[Scarlett 001]

Did you get someone really trustworthy to check that tree? Even if the tree is not broken, it could have a twist or warp, and that too can cause a horse pain and is much less obvious.

That being said, has a saddle fitter checked how the saddle fits your horse? Do you have access to a *good* saddle fitter (I've encountered some pretty bad saddle fitters and they did more harm than good)? If the saddle was bought for another horse, and you just popped it on your horse's back, the odds are that it may well not fit and she is sore. If the jumping saddle was custom made for her, then hopefully it will still fit (unless she has changed shape). I'd test her out in that. Although, if her back is sore, then it may take a while before the soreness goes away, and you'd want her back less sore to test the custom Pessoa.

Based on the reaction at the wither area, I'd take a guess the wither and the muscle below are sore due to saddle issues. The quivering could be a muscle spasm.

[Bronya]

You said she'd just lost a lot of weight, so the saddle will not fit at all like it used to. How much wither clearance is there? Get it checked by a good fitter!

[Nikita88]

You said she'd just lost a lot of weight, so the saddle will not fit at all like it used to. How much wither clearance is there? Get it checked by a good fitter!


Yeah, she lost weight....but when we got her..her dressage saddle was fitted for her at that exact time. So, it fit fine....then i was in a car accident and i was in the hospital for like a week and wasnt able to do anything for 5 months (i broke my humerus, tibia, and had a concussion) so during that time is when she gained weight. i payed people to ride her but i couldnt afford paying people all the time to ride her. I ride 3/4 days a week....so during the time i was injured i payed my friend 10 bucks for 1 hour of riding her....so she got ridden once a week. IT was the best i could do....so she put on weight, then i just got better not that long ago (feb.) so now she is loosing weight. Get it? like the saddle fit fine before, not she is going back to where she used to be.

[Nikita88]

Did you get someone really trustworthy to check that tree? Even if the tree is not broken, it could have a twist or warp, and that too can cause a horse pain and is much less obvious.

That being said, has a saddle fitter checked how the saddle fits your horse? Do you have access to a *good* saddle fitter (I've encountered some pretty bad saddle fitters and they did more harm than good)? If the saddle was bought for another horse, and you just popped it on your horse's back, the odds are that it may well not fit and she is sore. If the jumping saddle was custom made for her, then hopefully it will still fit (unless she has changed shape). I'd test her out in that. Although, if her back is sore, then it may take a while before the soreness goes away, and you'd want her back less sore to test the custom Pessoa.

Based on the reaction at the wither area, I'd take a guess the wither and the muscle below are sore due to saddle issues. The quivering could be a muscle spasm.


it makes sense that it would get her soar. The guy we brought it to did come highly recommended cause i was like oh, i will just bring it to where i bought it. and my trainer told me to bring it ot this guy who fixes horse supplies like blankets, saddles, bridles....and he can check over stuff, pretty much he does alot. he is also a farrier, but i brought it to his place and he said it was fine cause i didnt back over it all the way cause it hard to explain where the tire mark is and how exactly i ran over it....but, idk. it is an older saddle, its really nice, but older. When the vet comes....he wants me to ride her so should i put my dressage one on her? or the pessoa jumping? i wont be doing any jumping....but idk which one to use.

[LMS]

There are so many contributing factors. Here's a couple:

When anyone gets on this horse: how do they mount? From the ground? From a mounting block? Is there someone on the other side applying pressure in the other stirrup to prevent the saddle from torquing?

She may have done something when outside through bucking, playing or even rolling etc

It may have happened over time and only now showing itself as a problem.

[Showjumper]

Sounds like your saddle is causing your mare pain. You need to make the sure the saddles fit her really comfortably - get a qualified professional out to check. Chances are she will also need to be realigned by a chiropractor if the saddle has caused a lot of damage, and it's worth getting her checked by a physio or Bowen therapist too.

I don't know how far away you are from Galadriel (she posts on this board) but she is a qualified saddle fitter and also does sports massage for horses.

[Scarlett 001]

Showjumper, Wisconsin is very far away from Florida (and Galadriel). There is a real lack of saddle fitters (let alone good ones) in North America, so it may not be easy for Nikita to get this saddle fitting looked at properly. Nikita, is there a good person around who specializes in only saddle fitting and is known to be good?

FYI several saddle fitters did not even notice the twist in the tree of my saddle, which made it asymmetrical (it takes a good fitter to be attuned to this kind of thing). Saddles can warp over time, and often do (and yours is an old saddle). Also have you ever had the saddle reflocked? If it is older, then wool can get really lumpy and hard and shift around over time, so this could make things worse.

Wish I could wave a magic wand and create more good saddle fitters in North America.

[Showjumper]

:o Whoops I don't have a clue how far away Wisconsin and Florida are...*toddles off to look at a map*

Nikita, do you have a photo of your mare? If she isn't a complicated fit, and you can't get a decent saddle fitter out, have you thought about trying treeless? The Ansur saddles look pretty conventional so would be accepted in competition, as would the Heather Moffett Fhoenix.

[rhyme123]

gets the saddle checked to see if it fits propaly.

xx

[LMS]

Wish I could wave a magic wand and create more good saddle fitters in North America.
Schleese saddlery & Paramount saddlery are excellent saddle makers & fitters. They are both based in Ontario and Schleese as well in Germany.
http://www.schleese.com/
http://www.dressageniagara.com/ad_paramount_pg.htm

Paramount's site is not working right now, you can keep trying though. I'd try Schleese first as they are known internationally.

[Scarlett 001]

How fortunate - Schleese has a saddlefit session scheduled in Wisconsin areas in mid July.
http://www.schleese.com/resources/schedule.asp

This tells you about the sessions. Not sure how you book, or if you would have to trailer your horse but could be worth looking into if you can't find a local saddle fitter.
http://www.schleese.com/services/index.asp

[Jetstreem]

As the other have said I would get the vet to check her, and get the saddle checked too.

Cerys :)

[Nikita88]

:o Whoops I don't have a clue how far away Wisconsin and Florida are...*toddles off to look at a map*

Nikita, do you have a photo of your mare? If she isn't a complicated fit, and you can't get a decent saddle fitter out, have you thought about trying treeless? The Ansur saddles look pretty conventional so would be accepted in competition, as would the Heather Moffett Fhoenix.

yes, i have lots of pictures of my mare :) Some are really bad quality sorry about that... (no critquing please) Hopefully this works.....im computer retarted!


Thats her trying to get out of being on the bit...and yes, this is my dressage saddle i always use.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/LuckyMe88/dressage1.jpg

This is her weird bendy thing she does....sometimes she wont bend left at all and then sometimes she will bend too far left like this...(looks pretty ugly, i know)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/LuckyMe88/westsalem2.jpg

Again....her trying to come out of it, she is dropping the bit in this picture. Sometimes she will pace, but she decided not to here.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/LuckyMe88/PICT1782.jpg

This is her Pessoa Jumping saddle...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/LuckyMe88/jumpingsaddle.jpg

This is her making a weird face (hehe isnt she cute?)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/LuckyMe88/PICT1677.jpg

[Nikita88]

Okay, also...do you think the fact my trainer is VERY advanced has anything to deal with it? Like...i've been to many trainers before....Keely, Tamber, Paula, Dave, Dawn, Jessica and now im with Joanie....anyway, i was with Jessica for ALONG time and she never acted up with Jessica when she rode (i was always there to watch, i never let anyone ride her if i wasn there) \ when we would be on the bit i would hardly use my hands. Like jessica tought me to ask for it...not demand it! i would always ride on the verticle.....now Joanie on the other hand, she is really advanced like Jessica is too...but Joanie is the type that trains your trainer....ya know what i mean? Anyway...Joanie had me put a flash on NIkita, and i HATE using things like Flashes, martingales (cant spell), side reins...stuff like that. I do everything on my own....So Nikita never had a flash on and then Joanie got on and demanded for her to be under the verticle (when i ride on the verticle) so Nikita, being kind of a brat, started pacing and acting up....so we thought Nikita was soar. I mean, it made sense when Joanie explained it to me because sometimes Nikita always tries to drop the bit with me (thats why we put the flash on her) so....Could it just be Nikita didnt like Joanie demanding rather than asking? Joanie uses her hands alot, everthing is half halt half halt. I've been the only person to ride Nikita in like 2 years, she is used to me asking. Could that be it?!? i was just thinking about it today...like i dont know if horses act up if someone new rides them and asks them to do something like that.

You need to know that for some reason Nikita is very attached to me, im not like bragging or anything but she will NOT get in a trailer unless i go in with her....she has broken out of her cross ties because i was petting another horse....so i was thinking, maybe she just doesnt like someone other than me riding her.....she is like that.

[LMS]

Hmmm that's really interesting! All of a sudden three different things happened to Nikkita:
1- A different person on her back
2- A different approach to riding/training her
3- A flash was added

She may be objecting that too much is happening at once & it's making her uncomfortable on a personal level & physical level.

Has anyone tried only one change at a time?

Meaning: you riding with the flash or the new trainer riding without the flash & not demanding?

[Nikita88]

i think i mentioned the flash above....i dont feel like reading but, but atleast i think i mentioned it. Yeha i was just thinking about all this today...my trainer told me to get a flash, but i dont like using them so im not going to.

I tried me riding her with a flash...she didnt like it either, she wasnt pacing but she would shake her head alot. I refuse to ride with one.

[Showjumper]

Those photos aren't great for assessing her shape - do you have any of her side on both with and without tack?

[Nikita88]

the vet came, as vets always are..hes was 1 hour late!! he is a saddle fitter too and so is my trainer (also my farrier was there shoeing other horses) all of them agreed my saddle fit fine. My farrier checked her teeth and everything he could, e verything looked good. So i p ut NIkita ona lunge line and she would look out to the right ont he lunge line so the vet looked at her and noticed her right muscle on her shoulder is bigger than her left....so he said, she may have the pain in the back...but the problem is in her left front leg. so he did flexability tests and we saw it was her left front leg like he said....so we know its lower (like the fetlock area) So Nikita is getting x-rays today to rule out something like the start of navicular or ringbone. HE said he was almost sure it isnt navicular cause she would be lame and she is not lame on her leg at all. He said if it turns out it isnt ring bone or navicular he is going to do some nerve blocking then flexability tests and keep doing nerve blcok and flexability tests until we can pin point the exact spot where she is hurting. So hopefully all goes well, her x-ray appt. is today and hopefully i will find out tonight cause he is bringing is portable x-ray thing and taking it back to develope, im hoping they will call me tonight. I just hope its nothing bad =(
I already thought about what i was going to do it was was something bad, i would keep her and get a new one. I would lease out my new one (i cant lease out nikita im worried they would work her to where she cant be worked) So if i get a new one and lease out the new one, i dont have to worry baout that....i'd lease out my new one untill im done with college to kind of help pay cause i can hardly keep up my horse now, ill just have to pick up more hours at work.

what was sweet was my boyfriend has an out of shape arab/paint...8 years old, he said i could have him untill i got everything in order cause i as planing to go to alot of competitions this summer. his horse doesnt really know anything, he is te sweetest thing but i dont think he will work out for what i need him for, you never know though =) so i might look into that haha! free horse, i aint turning it down when i cant afford another one.

[Showjumper]

Hope everything is ok - fingers crossed the x-rays show what's wrong and it's easily sortable.