Dating a side saddle

[Jamey]

Not as in the case of taking one out to dinner ....

I have a Champion and Wilton side saddle stamped as 'Appointment to the King' but I want to date it more specifically than somewhere between 1901 and 1952. Can anyone help?

It has a stitched pocket on the off side and the saddle flap is secured to the over girth with a small catch. There is no sign of a third pommel (as you would expect), the seat is flat at the back but the back of the saddle is lower than the front (ie. the seat curves upwards at the front if you look at it from the side).

Someone did tell me that the flocking should have a small note giving the manufacture date however I'm not planning on having it reflocked for the present time (no cash spare).

I'll try to post some piccies of it later ... if I can remember how.

[Wally]

A picture sent to Liz Turner in Devon might prove fruitful. She is very, very knowledgable.

Is there no serial number?

[Jamey]

There's a patent number on the safety mechanism. Where would I find the serial number and who would I approach with it?

[lindz]

Contact the SSA, they can put you in touch with Liz Turner or someone else who can help you.

[Jamey]

Thanks, I'll have a root through my handbook and see if I can find her details.

[Wally]

If not give me a shout, I can PM you her number, she's a very nice lady.

[Jamey]

Thanks Wally!

[sidesaddlelady1]

There's a patent number on the safety mechanism. Where would I find the serial number and who would I approach with it?

Sadly, Champion and Wiltons' records were destroyed when they ceased trading in the 1950s. Does it have a buckle on the near-side (your left when mounted) to attach the balance girth or a strap? If it has the the former it is likely to have been made between 1910 and 1930. Having said that most manufacturers would make saddles to the preferred style of the customer, so many newer saddles had older attributes just because that was the way the customer had always had her saddles. The label, giving the name of the customer and the date of manufacture, would be stuck on the tree and only visible if you took the whole shooting match apart. Don't!

Also the manufacturers would buy parts from one another if they were short of what they needed - I have a Mayhew ss that was originally made with a C&W leaping head fitting which was lucky as the leaping head was missing when I bought the saddle (for £45 - eat your hearts out!) and I was able to get a second hand C&W one. The screw fittings on Mayhew leaping heads were individually made to measure and it would have been nigh impossible to get a replacement if the fitting had been one of Mayhew's own.

You can also find Owen saddles, in particular, where the stirrup end of the safety fitting has been lost so the whole fitting has had to be replaced with a modern Mayhew-style one as these are still being made.

A good source of historical information on saddle makers and saddle styles is Nick Creaton. I've lost his card unfortunately but you might be able to contact him via Leo Wright the saddler who does a lot of work for Nick or try googling. Mr John Wooley, side saddler, of Cheadle in Staffordshire has been in the family business all his life so might be able to advise you.

[Jamey]

The near side has three girth billets with a fourth to the front of the saddle higher up and set at 45 degrees to the others (pointing toward the back of the saddle). On the off side there are just the three girth billets. No buckles anywhere on the saddle except the overgirth.

I normally put the balancing strap on the first girth billet and the girth on the back two on the nearside.

The over girth is attached under the off-flap with the girth billets but attached to the flap on the nearside. A small catch secures the off-flap to the overgirth.

I really need to learn more about my side saddle!!!!

[Jamey]

It looks a lot like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Champion-and-Wilton-Side-Saddle_W0QQitemZ7248580182QQcategoryZ123482QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But has a pocket on the off-flap instead of the D rings. The leaping head unscrews.

[sidesaddlelady1]

The near side has three girth billets with a fourth to the front of the saddle higher up and set at 45 degrees to the others (pointing toward the back of the saddle). On the off side there are just the three girth billets. No buckles anywhere on the saddle except the overgirth.

I normally put the balancing strap on the first girth billet and the girth on the back two on the nearside.

The over girth is attached under the off-flap with the girth billets but attached to the flap on the nearside. A small catch secures the off-flap to the overgirth.

I really need to learn more about my side saddle!!!!
The strap at 45 degrees at the front is the one for attaching the balance girth to. Between 1910 and 1930 they had a buckle here instead. The balance girth would have had a buckle at one end to go on the off-side and a point and holes on the other end to attach to the buckle on the nearside under the flap. If you came across this system and haven't got the right sort of balance girth to fit it, the easiest (and cheapest) thing to do is to cut down a stirrup leather at the pointed end to about 9 or 10 inches long and round off the cut end. This makes a useful adapter and is usually acceptable in tack and turn out checks if the stirrup leather used is not so old it's about to collapse.

You may find that the saddle sits better if you attach the balanced girth to the front point strap (the one at 45 degrees)

The over-girth arrangement is the fairly standard 20th century one for all makes. You can find a few different arrangements but usually these are on older saddles. My Mayhew has a herman girthing system where the proper girth (the one which holds the saddle on) fastens over/outside the off-side flap and under the near-side one through a loop under the n/s flap. It isn't fitted with an over girth as the ordinary girth serves this purpose. This isn't very common but you sometime find it often on specially made show saddles.

I would guess that your saddle is post-1910 which doesn't narrow it down much I'm afraid.

[sidesaddlelady1]

It looks a lot like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Champion-and-Wilton-Side-Saddle_W0QQitemZ7248580182QQcategoryZ123482QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But has a pocket on the off-flap instead of the D rings. The leaping head unscrews.
Narrow pommels like these were usually found on older saddles. The flared ones were later although, as I've said elsewhere, customers often had new saddles made to the design they were used to even if the manufacturer had moved on to something more modern. I would hazard a guess that, all things being equal, the one shown is probably very late 19th/early 20th century.

Leaping heads should always unscrew - sometimes they have seized up which is why it's a good idea to smear a little vaseline on the thread as a lubricant to stop this. As you will have noticed, the thread on the leaping head is left-handed unlike normal screw threads. This is so the head doesn't unscrew when your leg exerts pressure on it. C&Ws often have 2 sockets for the leaping head - one for jumping (ie hunting) and one for riding on the flat (hacking etc). Or if there is a small, often circular patch, let into the leather near the existing leaping head it often means the saddle has been altered for a differently shaped lady (not recommended as it is a very expensive opperation). Incidentally there is (or should be) a small strap attached to the base of the leaping head and passing though the saddle flap to a buckle underneath to hold the leaping head in place. This can be replaced quite reasonably if it it's missing and I find mine quite useful although it isn't essential.

I have heard that C & W, while making all sorts of s/saddles, tended to specialise in hunting s/saddles. The pocket is for your "cap" (hunting fee). Some people attached a sandwich case to the d rings either on the o/side flap like the Ebay or on the side of the back part of the seat (where the d rings are on a modern astride saddle).

The ebay one doesn't look bad - it went very cheaply and I would have put a reserve on it higher than the eventual selling price.

Personally I don't like C&W s/saddles much as I haven't found one that suited me (out of dozens ) but my friend who hunts and shows wouldn't have any other make - you pays your money and you takes your choice. My s/saddle of choice is an Owen, "the Rolls Royce of side saddles" according to my saddler, but I also like the Mayhew I have lessons on. On the other hand, beggars can't be choosers and we have to put up with what we can get.

[Jamey]

Yes, I have tried the balancing girth on the point strap but as Cossack is very deep in the chest it didn't sit very well, hence using the third girth billet.

I knew about the counter-clockwise thread to the leaping head but I have seen earlier saddles with a fixed leaping head so that's why I mentioned it. there is only one position for the leaping head on my s/saddle. There isn't a strap to keep it in place and it doesn't look like there ever has been (no stitch marks etc) and there isn't a buckle under the saddle flap, so that's a bit puzzling!! :confused:

I also had lessons on a Mayhew but quite like the C&W - I find it more secure but I guess it's just a case of horses for courses! :D

[sidesaddlelady1]

Yes, I have tried the balancing girth on the point strap but as Cossack is very deep in the chest it didn't sit very well, hence using the third girth billet.

I knew about the counter-clockwise thread to the leaping head but I have seen earlier saddles with a fixed leaping head so that's why I mentioned it. there is only one position for the leaping head on my s/saddle. There isn't a strap to keep it in place and it doesn't look like there ever has been (no stitch marks etc) and there isn't a buckle under the saddle flap, so that's a bit puzzling!! :confused:

I also had lessons on a Mayhew but quite like the C&W - I find it more secure but I guess it's just a case of horses for courses! :D
Well, yes, different types suit different people. Have you read Rosamund Owen's book on side saddle? It's got a lot of interesting info in it and it's a good read.

[Jamey]

No, I've never been able to get my hands on a copy - they always seem to go for silly money. I'm keeping my eye out for a good copy though!

[sidesaddlelady1]

No, I've never been able to get my hands on a copy - they always seem to go for silly money. I'm keeping my eye out for a good copy though!
Whereabouts in Cheshire are you? Area 11 of the Side Saddle Association is based in that area but the Northern Side Saddle Group might suit you better especially if you are a relative beginner. The NSSG has some really good events for both experienced riders and beginners and can do a lot to help you when you are starting out. (Don't mean to cast nasturtiums on your abilities or suggest you don't sound experienced.)

[Jamey]

I'm a member of SSA Area 11 but don't do very much as my tack isn't show standard and I don't have a modern habit (can't afford one). I mostly joined so I'd have the contacts list.

Was taught at Roger Philpots yard in Kineton but that was about 2 years ago. They asked me to compete one of their horses but I didn't drive at the time so it wasn't really possible. Since then I've been saving up for a saddle and waiting for Cossack to mature.

Mostly use s/s for re-enactments. I admit my s/s knowledge isn't great but I've been told I ride well so I guess that's kind of the most important thing. I'm hoping to box Cossack down to Kineton over the winter and have some more lessons.

[sidesaddlelady1]

I'm a member of SSA Area 11 but don't do very much as my tack isn't show standard and I don't have a modern habit (can't afford one). I mostly joined so I'd have the contacts list.

Was taught at Roger Philpots yard in Kineton but that was about 2 years ago. They asked me to compete one of their horses but I didn't drive at the time so it wasn't really possible. Since then I've been saving up for a saddle and waiting for Cossack to mature.

Mostly use s/s for re-enactments. I admit my s/s knowledge isn't great but I've been told I ride well so I guess that's kind of the most important thing. I'm hoping to box Cossack down to Kineton over the winter and have some more lessons.
I have a friend living in Kineton so I know Roger's but I haven't had lessons there. In the opposite direction but not as far as Kineton (and M/way to within 2 miles) is Wrea Green Equitation Centre. The proprietress is an SSA Instructor and Judge and is very good (Tells you Why as well as What)

You know, for small shows you don't need super show tack. Everyone appreciates that most SSs are old so if it's safe, neatly mended and well cared for it shouldn't be a problem. Urad leather cream works wonders! Different, I suppose if you are at National level but at local level they should be encouraging you not embarrassing you about your tack. Some SSA Area shows include a class for beginners where habits aren't worn and the NSSG is very keen to promote the "elegant art" and get people into it so do things that you can join in even if you don't have the right clothes (or even a horse and saddle in a lot of cases!)

The two organisations are not in competition and lots of us are members of both. I belong to Area 11 (no, I'm not telling you who I am) and a year or two back had a rant at a committee member, who was foolish enough to ask for ideas, about the SSA not doing enough at "the lower end of the market" to attract new members who wanted to get started in SS.

[Jamey]

That's the trouble it's so expensive to get into once you take into account the cost of the saddle, habit etc - I've just paid £150 on replacing my girth and balancing girth!!

I'm a little wary of showing full stop considering some of the opinions you get voiced (particularly some people on here). You get the impression that you can have the most wonderful horse but unless you've invested half your income on 'turnout' you won't be considered for the top three. Whatever happened to the days when you turned up clean and tidy with everything in place and the best pony won?? Nowadays it seems more important that you're seen wearing the correct coloured tweed for this year's fashion.

I know you've posted it on here before but do you have contact details for the NSSG and an approx joining fee?

[lindz]

Not necessarily. You can spend millions on turnout if you want to but you dont have to. Its not a case of having the most expensive kit its a case of having the CORRECT kit thats sometimes an issue.

I did side saddle on a budget. I hired a saddle and made my own habit. I read up on the subject to make sure I was correctly turned out. I wanted to make sure I had it all right as elegance and ettiquette is a very important aspect in side saddle showing. I made sure I had it all correct right down to the correct shade of brown for my gloves. All in all I paid about £65 for my SS turnout.

I competed side saddle on a Highland pony, quite often I was very well placed in the top 3 up against the huge posh hunters!

[Jamey]

I would attempt to make my own habit but my sewing skills aren't that great so I would have to have someone else make it (or make a complete botch of it) and the material would cost a fair bit too. Out of interest, what did you do for headwear?

[lindz]

As I was a teenager at the time I wore my velvet covered riding hat. If I were to do it again now I would wear a bowler. You can pick up a traditional bowler on ebay for £20-30. You can also get toppers for a similar price.

The type of hat you wear depends on your age and the type of horse you are showing.

[sidesaddlelady1]

That's the trouble it's so expensive to get into once you take into account the cost of the saddle, habit etc - I've just paid £150 on replacing my girth and balancing girth!!

I'm a little wary of showing full stop considering some of the opinions you get voiced (particularly some people on here). You get the impression that you can have the most wonderful horse but unless you've invested half your income on 'turnout' you won't be considered for the top three. Whatever happened to the days when you turned up clean and tidy with everything in place and the best pony won?? Nowadays it seems more important that you're seen wearing the correct coloured tweed for this year's fashion.

I know you've posted it on here before but do you have contact details for the NSSG and an approx joining fee?

NSSG Contacts - Linda Cadman 0161 620 2379 & Jean Marsden 01254 54840
both are nice ladies and will welcome you with open arms (Linda sounds a bit intimidating when you first meet her but she isn't really:) ) I think the subs are about about £16 a year although it may go up at renewal in September as it hasn't since it started (my opinion not anything I've been told). NSSG is involved in all sorts of things to do with ss including grooms certificates as well as riding training and you can earn points for "grooming" at shows and hunting

Most stuff can be hired, even historical costumes- see the SSA handbook for sources of saddles and habits and there is usually a "for sale" page in the stuff that comes from both the SSA and the NSSG

As far as horses are concerned you can ride anything. There's a horse competing side saddle in the Royal Lancashire this year which used to pull a landau on Blackpool prom! Conformation does come into some classes but you get all sorts and certainly in the NSSG you won't be sneered at for a "less than perfect" horse (Actually there is no such thing in my view;) ). If it has nice manners, is willing and reasonably competant and you can fit a ss to it you're in.

There are limitations in the turn-out for ss competing but this means you don't have to panic about the latest fashion in colours, tweeds, hats etc. You don't want to listen to a lot of the nonsense about show kit voiced on this board (unless you like looking like a Christmas tree - meeow!) You, or a reasonably experienced home sewer, can make your own habit. I bought patterns for a cut away jacket and apron for a tenner each from Penny Housden at "Side Saddle Lady" (no relation) and some melton cloth from a good local fabric shop and would have made my own apron but was worried about trying to fit it without help. In the end I went to an equestrian tailor in Manchester, which supposedly specialised in habits, with my fabric. It was a disaster and took nearly a year for them to get it half way right. Altogether it cost me £150 but I could have made it myself for the cost of the patterns and the materials (£55) The patterns are American but they have very explicit construction and fitting instructions and are easy to follow if you have a little knowledge and take your time.

I don't compete so I can wear the apron, which is plain olive green, with my green keepers tweed hacking jacket with the front corners pinned under for lessons and hacking in winter although a habit isn't essential for these (keeps your knees warm though!).

For girths, etc, I've found it better to go to a sympathetic saddler and get them made (a 3 fold leather girth for a big horse cost me £50 as opposed to £85 from an ss mail order supplier and a plain balance girth with a buckle each end cost me £35). Obviously you don't want to let a non-specialist loose on the saddle itself but for stuff like girths etc., you should be alright if you explain exactly what you want with pictures if necessary.

My local tack shop owner/saddler goes to sales a lot and looks out for good stuff for me so it's a good idea to strike up a relationship with a good independently owned and run business and make sure they know your specialist interest. That's how I got my £45 Mayhew - she bought it on spec because she knew she could put it back in a sale if I didn't want it - I did and I got a unused C&W balance girth for £15 into the bargain!

The latest headwear rules in the SSA handbook specify a standard safety riding hat for any classes involving jumping. And as Lindz says you can always pick up secondhand bowlers and silk hats through the SSA or the NSSG - second hand not to be sneered at!

Lord knows, I don't have a lot of disposable income but there are always ways and means. Economies can be made elsewhere - I am the charity shop queen for good quality fleeces, jumpers and occasionally waterproof jackets for everyday riding and yard work. And if you look after them properly, the less highly advertised and therefore less expensive ranges of horse rugs are every bit as good as some of the "posh" ones. I've had good service from Shires and Robinsons' own brand among others..

[Jamey]

Thanks sidesaddlelady!

I made the 1880s habit from a pattern from Penny but had a job to make it fit!! I'm straight up and down and very tall so I often have to adapt any patterns I buy which is where I have all the problems!!! The apron on a modern habit has to end six inches above the sole of your boot (ie just above your ankle) - is this correct? I'm a little worried about getting this bit right as I haven't got anyone who could pin the hem to the right length for me while I was onboard as it were. The jacket should be fairly straightforward but the aprons always worry me. My 1880s one doesn't feel like it hangs correctly and I think I'm going to have to refit. I've got some grey worsted at home so I might do a 'practice run' of the modern apron with that and then use it for schooling.

Cossack is generally well behaved (although can get a little silly in new situations) and has a very willing attitude. He's taken to sidesaddle very quickly and actually puts his sensible, 'look after mum' hat on when I'm riding aside. I was riding in my medieval gown two weekends ago (in the grounds of Audley End House - very lucky girl!! :D ), there is four meters of material in the skirt and I thought he would be a bit funny with it but he didn't blink an eye!! A very good boy!!

I'm saving at the moment so that I can have my s/s re-flocked as Cossack is filling out and I don't think it's going to fit him much longer (it appears to have been reflocked at some point in the past to narrow the gullet so there's plenty of room to expand back out). It isn't pinching at the moment but he's a growing boy so it'll only be a matter of time. Bloomin' youngsters!!

Edit to say - I know what you mean about saving elsewhere!! All my rugs are bought on clearance and are all the cheaper brands!!

[Miriam]

[QUOTE=Jamey]Not as in the case of taking one out to dinner ....

QUOTE]

Glad you said that as I had visions of you taking your side saddle out to dinner :p

[Jamey]

Given the options, it wouldn't be far off the top of the list!!!! :D

[sidesaddlelady1]

Thanks sidesaddlelady!

I made the 1880s habit from a pattern from Penny but had a job to make it fit!! I'm straight up and down and very tall so I often have to adapt any patterns I buy which is where I have all the problems!!! The apron on a modern habit has to end six inches above the sole of your boot (ie just above your ankle) - is this correct? I'm a little worried about getting this bit right as I haven't got anyone who could pin the hem to the right length for me while I was onboard as it were. The jacket should be fairly straightforward but the aprons always worry me. My 1880s one doesn't feel like it hangs correctly and I think I'm going to have to refit. I've got some grey worsted at home so I might do a 'practice run' of the modern apron with that and then use it for schooling.

Cossack is generally well behaved (although can get a little silly in new situations) and has a very willing attitude. He's taken to sidesaddle very quickly and actually puts his sensible, 'look after mum' hat on when I'm riding aside. I was riding in my medieval gown two weekends ago (in the grounds of Audley End House - very lucky girl!! :D ), there is four meters of material in the skirt and I thought he would be a bit funny with it but he didn't blink an eye!! A very good boy!!

I'm saving at the moment so that I can have my s/s re-flocked as Cossack is filling out and I don't think it's going to fit him much longer (it appears to have been reflocked at some point in the past to narrow the gullet so there's plenty of room to expand back out). It isn't pinching at the moment but he's a growing boy so it'll only be a matter of time. Bloomin' youngsters!!

Edit to say - I know what you mean about saving elsewhere!! All my rugs are bought on clearance and are all the cheaper brands!!

Ah, yes. 1880s ladies were somewhat more shapely than modern girls!

Hem of the apron - I think it's supposed to be level with the counter seam on your boot (the horizontal seam at the top of your foot) or am I making this up? - would have to look it up and I'm at work at the moment. Aprons are the very devil to get straight. Perhaps we should try and get Area 11 Committee to put on a habit making and fitting day as an event next winter.

Cossack sounds super. Yes, the WH looks very proud of himself and takes it all very seriously when he's got a side saddle lady "up". It makes me very cross when people say "Oh, my horse wouldn't like side saddle" - never met one yet that didn't take to it like a duck to water. (Well, yes, I have, once, but she had a serious back problem and was retired as a companion horse shortly after the SS fiasco.)

[Jamey]

A habit fitting/making session is an excellent idea!! I'd definately come along and it would be helpful to those members who can't afford to have their habits made up for them!!

It makes me very cross when people say "Oh, my horse wouldn't like side saddle" - never met one yet that didn't take to it like a duck to water.

I think it's a case of the owner not liking the idea of side saddle rather than the horse!! My s/s is quite often eyed with suspicion and dread!! :D

Just checked the SSA handbook re hemming of the apron. It states it 'should be approximately one hand's width above the left counter seam of the boot'. With regards to habit colour it just states that it should be a restrained hue but I understand it is more traditionally black or navy. Would you be marked down for having a dark shade of say green or brown?

[Miriam]

Given the options, it wouldn't be far off the top of the list!!!! :D


Oh dear that does not sound good :P

[Jamey]

Well, Gunner the gundog would make an awful mess with his spaniel ears dangling in the soup and the OH is from Sunderland so I'm not sure if he's done his book-learning on table manners!!! :D :p

Cossack would probably be the least embarrassing and he'd probably poop at the table. Only down point for the saddle is I know I'd definately be paying for dinner!!! :eek: :D

[Miriam]

Well, Gunner the gundog would make an awful mess with his spaniel ears dangling in the soup and the OH is from Sunderland so I'm not sure if he's done his book-learning on table manners!!! :D :p

Cossack would probably be the least embarrassing and he'd probably poop at the table. Only down point for the saddle is I know I'd definately be paying for dinner!!! :eek: :D



Being originally from Sunderland myself I'm not sure if I should take offence at that bit :eek: :p

Dogs yes that could be embarrassing especially if Phio decided to have bad manners

I'm sure Cossack would have perfect manners. Then again seen our lot when we go for pub lunch. Has people in stitches as we are all fighting over cheesy chips and garlic bread :D Certianly no manners from any of us :p


mmmm seems to me you need to find a better saddle to go our with :p

[Jamey]

:D


bump!

[Miriam]

Have you had any luck dating the saddle?


(That does sound wierd) :D

[Jamey]

The damn thing keeps standing me up!!!! :D :D

No, seriously though. Not been able to pinpont it so far but will keep trying! :rolleyes:

[Miriam]

Dump it its not worth it :p


Hope you do have some luck dating it. Looking forward to hearing the good news :D

[sidesaddlelady1]

The damn thing keeps standing me up!!!! :D :D

No, seriously though. Not been able to pinpont it so far but will keep trying! :rolleyes:
Have a word with John Wooley (Cheadle , Staffs) he's a specialist s/saddler who's been at it all his life and comes from a family which started in the business in 1802 (yes, I did say eighteen oh two). He told me that my Mayhew was originally built for the American market as he found a stamp on the flap showing the US patent and Mayhews made for this country usually didn't. If you can get hold of his brother, the elusive Andy Woolley, he is even more interesting on the subject of s/s history. And if you do find him let me know as he has had my Maynard and Son (Plymouth) 1890 saddle for re-building for several years :¬(

[sidesaddlelady1]

The damn thing keeps standing me up!!!! :D :D

No, seriously though. Not been able to pinpont it so far but will keep trying! :rolleyes:
Have a word with John Wooley (Cheadle , Staffs) he's a specialist s/saddler who's been at it all his life and comes from a family which started in the business in 1802 (yes, I did say eighteen oh two). He told me that my Mayhew was originally built for the American market as he found a stamp on the flap showing the US patent and Mayhews made for this country didn't.

[Ride2theSide]

Hi Jamey

If you are having some work done on your saddle and it is taken apart you may find a label inside with the date on (i did with 2 of my saddles)

We (Ride2theside) are based in Cheshire, recently paraded in the carnival at Tarporley, followed by a display.

HAve a look at our web site for details of our displays for the rest of the year, come along and say hello

www.ride2theside.co.uk

also

www.ride2theside.co.uk/forum

look forward to hearing from you

Julia

[Jamey]

Sidesaddlelady - I'll look John Wooley up and see if he can take a look at it! Might be able to afford the reflocking etc soon.

Julia - we saw you at, hmmm, I think it was Tatton Park at the Game Fair last year. We were going to come and talk to you but you looked awfully busy at the time and I had to get back to ride Cossack. I'll definately take a look at your website ...